Poll: legalizing marijuana

[BLS53]

You can bet legalization wouldn't involve the status quo as far as growing and distribution goes. It would be sold as a prescribed pharmeceutical. Probably similar to the way Viagra is prescribed now. Meaning you don't really need a defined health problem to convince a doctor to prescribe it to you.

I don't think legalization would be as simple as raising the speed limit. It would still be a controlled substance. The real question, is who would be allowed to grow the stuff?

If one says everybody should be allowed to grow it, then you've just given marijuana a privledge that every other mind altering substance doesn't have.

 

[ERhoosier]

Haven't done it in decades since my wilder years, even then probably a dozen times, tops, and certainly haven't looked for it. But if it was on the rack in the cashier aisle on sale for $3 a joint, and a sleeve of Oreos conveniently beside it, I might make a "trip" down memory lane one last time.

I'd reconsider that. All the sugar in those Oreo's is known to be bad for your health. And after a J it will be a whole bag not just a sleeve

 

[brewer12345]

You can bet legalization wouldn't involve the status quo as far as growing and distribution goes. It would be sold as a prescribed pharmeceutical. Probably similar to the way Viagra is prescribed now. Meaning you don't really need a defined health problem to convince a doctor to prescribe it to you.

I don't think legalization would be as simple as raising the speed limit. It would still be a controlled substance. The real question, is who would be allowed to grow the stuff?

If one says everybody should be allowed to grow it, then you've just given marijuana a privledge that every other mind altering substance doesn't have.

Actually, legalization here in CO specifically allows adults to grow up to 6 plants for their personal consumption.

As for your last statement, I already brew my own beer, I have made my own wine, etc. The poppies hat are commonly grown as ornaments are opium poppies. Its perfectly legal to grow your own tobacco and no less than Seeds of Change used to (maybe still does) sell two varieties of heirloom tobacco seeds. I fail to see the difference.

 

[Beryl]

There sure must be a bunch of potheads on this board. I must live in a sheltered environment. 60 years old, and the only place I've seen a joint is in the movies.

I don't think my situation is unique among the general public. And there lies your problem with legalization.

I'm just a little younger than you. I lived in Los Angeles for 12 years and spent 8 years in college getting a few degrees. I've seen a joint and recognize the smell but never tried it.

However, I voted yes and supported our Colorado law. "Gateway" argument aside, I find potheads less problematic than those who drink socially. Moreover, my sister has MS and pot is the only thing that takes away the negative symptoms of the disease. Making pot legal also helps her in accessing the drug.

Once the Fed syncs up with our state law, I might try it. I've been fine without pot for over 50 years and in no rush.

 

[jollystomper]

I don't know how I feel about it since I never used it. There is just something that turns me off about setting something on fire and sucking it into my lungs. If it turns you on, have a good time.

+1

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've noticed that almost everyone on this thread feels compelled to mention that they never use the stuff (MJ), or may have once or twice in their earlier years, or use it occasionally in the very late evening (but certainly never earlier than the mid-afternoon), etc. What's up with that ? Are folks actually so distrustful of our law-enforcement establishment ? Do folks somehow think this makes them more virtuous, in general, or with respect to the regard in with their opinions on this matter should be held ?

You can bet legalization wouldn't involve the status quo as far as growing and distribution goes. It would be sold as a prescribed pharmeceutical. Probably similar to the way Viagra is prescribed now. Meaning you don't really need a defined health problem to convince a doctor to prescribe it to you.

I don't think legalization would be as simple as raising the speed limit. It would still be a controlled substance. The real question, is who would be allowed to grow the stuff?

If one says everybody should be allowed to grow it, then you've just given marijuana a privledge that every other mind altering substance doesn't have.

I'm not quite sure why you think MJ would or should (I can't quite discern your meaning) be treated any differently than the most popular mind-altering substance, alcohol. I'm pretty sure everybody is allowed to brew their own beer (or wine, though it's a lot more difficult to get right). Thanks to President Carter (or so I've been told) you no longer need to have terribly deep pockets to be able to brew beer for resale - hence the "microbrew revolution" (where the USA is arguably the world's premier beer producer, and I'm not just referring to quantity).

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

What if you were sitting around listening to some "Band on the Run" while at the same time feeling very sad because some drunk (or intoxicated pothead) ran over and killed your son while he was crossing the street? ...

Motor vehicle deaths caused by "potheads" are quite few. Fatal accidents where the driver was found to have consumed MJ are mostly alcohol-influenced. I'll wager that more motor vehicle deaths over the past ten years were caused by drivers distracted by their cell-phones than by MJ use.

From my almost 60 years of real life and criminal law experience, having attended college in the early 1970s (if you know what that means), and being a rock musician wanna-be ever since high school, I have witnessed MJ use among some family, friends, and strangers for decades. Never, ever, during all those many years have I ever been concerned by their MJ use. They have families, kids and jobs. They don't drive their vehicles recklessly. They don't commit crimes to get more MJ. They are you and me.

 

[BLS53]

All I'm saying, is there are many questions on what effect legalization would have. A home brewer or gardener's point of view, is not going to be the only input taken into consideration if legalization is considered.

Another obstacle, is that marijuana has no legitimate economic structure for federal lawmakers to turn to when considering legislation. I doubt that the heads of illegal drug cartels are going to respond to a subpoena to testify on Capitol Hill. More likely the panels wiould be populated by academics, who have agendas on one side or the other, and a few parents who will claim their child's life was ruined by using pot. Any regular pot users who show up, will be surrounded by a team of attorneys reminiscent of the Baseball Steroid Use Hearings. Where the witnesses "refuse to talk about the past".

I don't know the background of the leg work that led up to the recent legislation in the individual states. My bet would be on the presence of a significant number of legislators that were elected to office based in part on a strong pro-marijuana platform. I don't see the political will for that on a national level.

Marijuana use is one of many social trends that rose in popularity during the counter culture of the 1960's. Most of the other trends have achieved legitimacy within American society. Either through legislation or acceptance within society, where enforcement of existing laws is impossible. Marijuana has not achieved that stature. There is not enough support nationally to get marijuana legalized. And given the ongoing enforcement of marijuana laws in a large number of jurisdictions, I don't see legalization happening anytime soon.

At the end of the day, it stems from a weak lobbying effort. NORML has been around at least 40 years, and the most I can recall of them is an occasional full page ad in Playboy Magazine. Compare that to the results of it's contemporaries, like the NAACP, NOW, and the various Gay advocacy groups. I don't know if there have been cases at The Supreme Court level concerning the use of marijuana. If there has been, they obviously weren't successful. Success meaning the impact, as compared to say, a Roe v Wade.

 

[BLS53]

Motor vehicle deaths caused by "potheads" are quite few. Fatal accidents where the driver was found to have consumed MJ are mostly alcohol-influenced. I'll wager that more motor vehicle deaths over the past ten years were caused by drivers distracted by their cell-phones than by MJ use.

From my almost 60 years of real life and criminal law experience, having attended college in the early 1970s (if you know what that means), and being a rock musician wanna-be ever since high school, I have witnessed MJ use among some family, friends, and strangers for decades. Never, ever, during all those many years have I ever been concerned by their MJ use. They have families, kids and jobs. They don't drive their vehicles recklessly. They don't commit crimes to get more MJ. They are you and me.

What that tells me is that your family and friends are happy with the status quo. They obtain marijuana with ease, and don't feel threatened by law enforcement. If they are individuals of prominent social stature, they would have more to lose by coming out of the closet, and pertaking in a legalization movement.

 

[pappy43]

YES.

How strange that my first post as a retiring police off. would be about Marijuana. After 26 years as a cop in a large city, I would have to say compared
To alcohol there is no comparison, as I can't remember how many fights I was forced into from people intoxicated, as there were so many, I
really can't remember ever being in a fight with someone stoned. I find it rather hypocritical for a lot of people around my age group calling
people smoking marihuana as a bunch of no good druggies as they themselves are polishing off their 4th vodka tonic. My position on this is as long as the public
looks the other way knowing how dangerous alcohol is, as I am being forced to retire at 49 due to a drunk running me over 15 yrs ago, then
How dare you stand judgement over someone else's choice of intoxicant. I have
no love of any intoxicants, but that's just me, as long as your "escape" doesn't infringe on others have at it,

 

[Mulligan]

I'd reconsider that. All the sugar in those Oreo's is known to be bad for your health. And after a J it will be a whole bag not just a sleeve

That is funny, but true to me. It has been so long ago, I can't even remember the effects the "J" has on you. But I do still remember the feeling of a stomach about to explode from eating almost a whole bag of Oreos, yet still strangely wanting to eat more. That in itself would be a good reason to stay "in retirement" at my age now, as it would take a month to burn off those Oreo calories.

 

[brewer12345]

I don't know the background of the leg work that led up to the recent legislation in the individual states. My bet would be on the presence of a significant number of legislators that were elected to office based in part on a strong pro-marijuana platform. I don't see the political will for that on a national level.

I cannot speak for the other states, but in CO weed was legalized via a direct ballot initiative. Such things require a cetain number of signatures to be gathered to get them up for vote and usually there is an interested group or groups organizing the signature drive and then trying to get people to vote for the initiative. In this case, it was a combination of national MJ legalization groups, some of the local medical MJ community, a few miscellaneous celebrities (who I doubt anyone pays much attention to), and the manufacturers of Dr. Bronner's soaps. The last is a bit weird, but the ballot initiative legalized the production/growing of industrial hemp for fiber and oil. Since Dr. Bronner's uses hemp oil in their soap making and it is not legal to grow in the US, they have to pay through the nose to import what they need from Canada and elsewhere. Since medical MJ has been legal here for some years, its not a wildly foreign thought to just legalize it for everyone.

The legislators and the governor did not support the change here in CO, but they have not bothered to fight it since a majority of the voters agreed with it and now everyone is legally bound to implement it. There is actually a commission that is in the process of working out the many details of how to implement it and what will/will not be allowed. Among many other details, the commission recently decided to allow the sale of small amounts of legal weed to non-residents. Soon you will be able to come visit the Amsterdam of the Rockies if you wish.

 

[brewer12345]

I've noticed that almost everyone on this thread feels compelled to mention that they never use the stuff (MJ), or may have once or twice in their earlier years, or use it occasionally in the very late evening (but certainly never earlier than the mid-afternoon), etc. What's up with that ? Are folks actually so distrustful of our law-enforcement establishment ? Do folks somehow think this makes them more virtuous, in general, or with respect to the regard in with their opinions on this matter should be held ?

Simple statement of fact in my case; cannot speak for others. Even though CO has legalized weed, employers are still within their rights to can an employee who tests positive for the stuff (as idiotic as that whole charade is).

 

[RustyShackleford]

The legislators and the governor did not support the change here in CO, but they have not bothered to fight it since a majority of the voters agreed with it ...

But the Governor DID famously say "don't break out the Cheetos or Goldfish too quickly".

 

[utrecht]

I've noticed that almost everyone on this thread feels compelled to mention that they never use the stuff (MJ), or may have once or twice in their earlier years, or use it occasionally in the very late evening (but certainly never earlier than the mid-afternoon), etc. What's up with that ? Are folks actually so distrustful of our law-enforcement establishment ? Do folks somehow think this makes them more virtuous, in general, or with respect to the regard in with their opinions on this matter should be held ?


I'm not quite sure why you think MJ would or should (I can't quite discern your meaning) be treated any differently than the most popular mind-altering substance, alcohol. I'm pretty sure everybody is allowed to brew their own beer (or wine, though it's a lot more difficult to get right). Thanks to President Carter (or so I've been told) you no longer need to have terribly deep pockets to be able to brew beer for resale - hence the "microbrew revolution" (where the USA is arguably the world's premier beer producer, and I'm not just referring to quantity).

I think its pretty clear that some people here are distrustful of law enforcement based on a thread we had not long ago about NEVER talking to cops.

I doubt that's why people are saying they've never tried MJ though. Nothing can be done to you legally for admitting to smoking MJ. You have to either be caught in possession of it, or be intoxicated from it to be charged with anything. I think most people are pointing out the fact that you don't have to be a pothead to believe it should be legal.

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

What that tells me is that your family and friends are happy with the status quo. They obtain marijuana with ease, and don't feel threatened by law enforcement. If they are individuals of prominent social stature, they would have more to lose by coming out of the closet, and pertaking in a legalization movement.

Huh?

 

[BTravlin]

One of the major reasons to legalize it is to do away with the "gateway" effect. People have been smoking the stuff for thousands of years (Weed stash found in 2,700 year old Chinese tomb) and it's not going to stop because it's illegal. Since it is illegal though, users are forced to seek out the criminal element in order to obtain it and those criminals are all too happy to introduce teens to meth, heroin and other much more dangerous drugs. I'd much rather have teens have any older sibling get it for them at the local convenience store than have them seek out dangerous criminals in order to score a bag. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it and you will eliminate many more harmful effects on society than are introduced. And I do speak from experience having smoked my fair share over the years.

 

[RustyShackleford]

One of the major reasons to legalize it is to do away with the "gateway" effect. ... Legalize it, regulate it and tax it and you will eliminate many more harmful effects on society than are introduced.

Amen, more to the point, the illegality teaches young people to disrespect the law. They learn pretty quickly from respected elders - I learned from my hall counselors in college and from my older brother, all very successful and serious-minded people - that the stuff is not the demon it was made out the be. So they're like "THIS stuff is still illegal, what a bunch of bull". So they learn not to respect the laws and to mistrust and dislike cops. It's bone stupid.

PS. The rich don't respect the law because they know it can't touch them, and the poor don't respect the law because they know it won't protect them.

 

[Nodak]

Amen, more to the point, the illegality teaches young people to disrespect the law. They learn pretty quickly from respected elders - I learned from my hall counselors in college and from my older brother, all very successful and serious-minded people - that the stuff is not the demon it was made out the be. So they're like "THIS stuff is still illegal, what a bunch of bull". So they learn not to respect the laws and to mistrust and dislike cops. It's bone stupid.

PS. The rich don't respect the law because they know it can't touch them, and the poor don't respect the law because they know it won't protect them.

Congress is responsible for a lot of disrespect of the law. They have made so many stupid regulations that everyone has probably broken more than one.

 

[kcowan]

Mexico has a certain pragmatism about their laws. Here in PV, if your car has seat belts, you must wear them. But there is no law requiring your car to have seat belts.

Similarly, there is a law against carrying an open beer in public but it is seldom enforced. So many tourists don't even know it is against the law. Pot is allowed for personal use but not for trafficking.

So it is important to understand the practices as well as the law. In many ways, it is more enlightened. Police exercise their judgement. Who knew?

 

[M Paquette]

Stick with the approved legal drugs. Like OxyContin, prescribed from Doc Feelgood down at the pill mill. With maybe a vodka chaser or four. Gaaaah! What could possibly go wrong?

"Legal" and "safe" turn out to be orthogonal concepts.

You can be "driving under the influence" from the effects of beta blockers for blood pressure control, or even an anticoagulant. Lets stop confusing what's legal to take with what's safe to be operating heavy machinery with.

 

[steelyman]

Stick with the approved legal drugs. Like OxyContin, prescribed from Doc Feelgood down at the pill mill. With maybe a vodka chaser or four. Gaaaah! What could possibly go wrong?

"Legal" and "safe" turn out to be orthogonal concepts.

You can be "driving under the influence" from the effects of beta blockers for blood pressure control, or even an anticoagulant. Lets stop confusing what's legal to take with what's safe to be operating heavy machinery with.

Every time I see or hear "Dr. Feelgood", it makes me smile, as I shared an office for a few years with someone and we established a routine. He was always there before me and when I showed up, he'd say, "Morning, Dr. Feelgood!", and I'd say, "What up, Holmes?"

There really was a Dr. Feelgood - he was called Piano Red.

 

[Stanley]

I don't know the background of the leg work that led up to the recent legislation in the individual states. My bet would be on the presence of a significant number of legislators that were elected to office based in part on a strong pro-marijuana platform. I don't see the political will for that on a national level.

Be glad you did not actually make that bet. In the state of Washington, there was no great movement to elect MJ friendly people to office. Unlike some issues such as abortion, MJ was not a great concern when vetting candidates or voting for them. For better or worse, this was a case where the people were out ahead of the leaders.

I do agree that on a national level the political will is not there.

 

[Tyro]

For any still on the fence...

Late to the party again.... Hadn't realized this thread had become so active of late.

IMO, some of the most cogent and persuasive thoughts & arguments I've read on legalization (and ending the war on drugs in general) have come (surprisingly, to me) from these two articles:

National Review Senior Editor Richard Brookhiser's Congressional Testimony (1996)

The War on Drugs is Lost

Tyro

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

The 'War on Marijuana' is being lost these days in 2014 because--since at least the early 1930s--it had been based on dickwad reasons.