Preparing for Another Hurricane in Good Ol' Fla.

I have been checking a few locations near the coastal areas (about 5 to 20 miles inland at each) where I either have relatives or have had them in the past, in FL and the Carolinas. So far, wind predictions, or actual winds in far south Florida, do not exceed 40 mph. Rainfall is heavy however, very heavy, so if the coast hugging continues, that is the greater problem in these locations, and not wind damage. North Carolina and Virginia beaches may be the exception, if there is landfall
 
Well, as of the 12pm update the NHC is now saying WNW:

PRESENT MOVEMENT...WNW OR 285 DEGREES AT 1 MPH...2 KM/H

So, I'll take that as a start, but I'm not a meteorologist, so I like to go with what they tell me vs. what I think I can see.

Hurricanes wobble, too. Just like a top. Hopefully it will turn and pick up speed.
 
I have been checking a few locations near the coastal areas (about 5 to 20 miles inland at each) where I either have relatives or have had them in the past, in FL and the Carolinas. So far, wind predictions, or actual winds in far south Florida, do not exceed 40 mph. Rainfall is heavy however, very heavy, so if the coast hugging continues, that is the greater problem in these locations, and not wind damage. North Carolina and Virginia beaches may be the exception, if there is landfall


Storm surges seem to be a potential major issue from FL to NC, especially in coastal areas with low-lying lands and river outlets. Much like New Bern a few years back.

omni
 
Neighbors are evacuating this evening. She sent me a photo of our beach access staircase, which is nearly submerged. At normal high tide, there should be at least 20-25 feet of clear beach in addition to two short flights of beach stairs.
 
Last I saw from the hurricane center, a little more confidence it will stay offshore, but not absolute certainty either:

"The National Hurricane Center is more certain that Dorian will not make landfall over the U.S., but will hug the coastline this week up through the mid-Atlantic as a hurricane. Still, possible landfall is not totally out of the picture, and could happen as far north as the Carolinas.

NHC Director Ken Graham said in a video update posted to Twitter that Dorian is expected to get "dangerously close" to the coast and will bring with it six to 10 inches of rain and four to seven feet of storm surge from Miami to Georgia."


4 to 7 feet of surge is not good, but not as bad as the 20 plus feet in the Bahamas.

Windy.com has good graphic and when I checked late yesterday, showed a landfall in northern NC :(
 

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This is the most accurate forecast I have seen.

People really think they can forecast a hurricane better than they do the stock market?

Actually, I believe meteorologists don't do too badly. It's just that people expect them to be like God.

Remember that back in 1929, Heisenberg already told us we could never predict precisely the motion of a single electron. Just one electron.
 
Actually, I believe meteorologists don't do too badly.

+1

I have always liked this quote from Robert Ryan (Bulletin Of The American Meteorological Society, March 1982) to describe the difficulty of forecasting the weather:

"Imagine a system on a rotating sphere that is 8000 miles wide, consists of different materials and different gases that have different properties (one of the most important of which, water vapor, exists in different concentrations), heated by a nuclear reactor 93,000,000 miles away. Then, just to make life interesting, this sphere is oriented such that, as it revolves around the nuclear reactor, it is heated differently at different times of the year. Then, someone is asked to watch the mixture of gases, a fluid only 20 miles deep that covers an area of 250,000,000 square miles, and to predict the state of that fluid at one point on the sphere two days from now. This is the problem weather forecasters face."

When we think of the job of the forecaster from this perspective, it is always amazing to me that our forecasting ability is as good as it currently is.
 
Rotational Wind speeds have mercifully slowed. Never thought I would be grateful to see a cat 3. Translational speed been less than a slow walk NE (moving so slow that weather reporter was arrested for loitering :cool:). The models are holding projections off the coast of FL. Beach erosion and storm surge for low lying areas are still a problem.

The Bahamas will need international relief.
 
When we think of the job of the forecaster from this perspective, it is always amazing to me that our forecasting ability is as good as it currently is.
It has also improved tremendously in the last 25 years.

The possibility of a stall and turn north was in the cone pretty much from the start of it coming close to the US mainland (originally mentioned when it was near PR). The slow down and length of stall is a bit surprising to many, however. I've noticed they still have work to do with the modeling for forward speed.

I nearly became a meteorologist. I was actually on the track to do that, but then the computer bug bit me and I went that way. Even after landing my dream computer job at Mega1, I thought about getting a masters in Meteorology and combining computers and weather.

However, I didn't pursue it because the math is ridiculous. Atmospheric modeling uses incredibly difficult mathmatics that most people can't even imagine, and most haven't even heard of. I made it through Diffy-Q for my EE degree, but swore that math off after that. Hearing that modeling was mainly Diffy-Q sealed the deal for me to stay in computers.

It would have been interesting work, however. Modeling has grown up during a time when the work done today on a desktop required a Cray supercomputer just 25 or 30 years ago.

They are still improving it. Imagine the dynamics of the equations, and the measurements required for input. Take this stall for instance. You have to model the upwelling of cold water that the hurricane is churning up. Do you have measurements for deep water temperature? Can that be put into the model?

Measurements are getting better and denser via satellite. In the few meteorology classes I took (I got a taste), my professor used to complain about the "LFM" model (now defunct) that it was all Limited and not Fine. (Limited Fine Mesh) His complaint was that the inputs were too spread out and not fine enough, aside from it being very isolated in area. NOAA apparently agreed and moved to a newer model not too long after that.
 
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When I earned my Masters degree in meteorology and oceanography I had to take several courses in math, but not a single course in forecasting. Go figure. : )

Input measurements are still a major challange. Weather forecasting primarily involves measuring the current condition of the atmosphere and then predicting how these conditions will change for the duration of the forecast. One major limitation is our inability to accurately measure the conditions throughout the entire atmosphere.

There are approximately 11,000 weather stations around the world currently reporting surface weather observations on a regular basis. These stations record and report data at least every three hours, and many stations make hourly reports.

There are about 1,300 stations around the world that regularly launch radiosondes. Most of these stations launch radiosonde balloons twice per day, at midnight and noon Greenwich Standard Time. Some stations launch balloons only once per day. When severe weather is occurring or imminent, stations in the local area may launch radiosondes more frequently. Radiosondes can typically reach altitudes of approximately 100,000 feet before the balloons burst, which is about the middle of the stratosphere. This means that we are not able to routinely take measurements in the upper stratosphere, mesosphere or thermosphere.

There are about 4,000 ships around the world that voluntarily report weather observations to the World Meteorological Organization while they are at sea, and about 1,000 ships are reporting observations on any particular day. There are about 1,200 drifting buoys at various locations in the world ocean that report surface observations on a regular basis. Some stationary platforms such as oil drilling platforms also report weather observations. I was on a cruise several years ago, and the ship had a plaque hanging on a wall congratulating it for being one of the top reporting ships that year.

Both military and commercial aircraft may take and report weather observations while in flight. Over 3,000 aircraft currently make these reports, although the timing and locations of these reports can vary widely.

The newer environmental satellites are able to measure atmospheric soundings remotely from space, and this has greatly enhanced the ability to take measurements of the upper atmosphere, especially in remote areas, high latitude areas and over the oceans. The ability of satellites to measure soundings is limited in regions with extensive cloud cover. These include six geosynchronous satellites and three satellites in near-polar orbits.

Wind profilers and Doppler weather radar are able to provide increasing numbers of observations as the technology improves and as the number of units increases.

There are few measurements of ocean temperatures below the surface that get considered, even though ocean heat is the primary energy source for hurricanes.

Although this sounds like a lot of weather reports, they are not distributed equally around the world. For example, the ocean covers about 70 percent of the globe, but we get very little data from ocean areas. We also get very little data from high latitude regions. Even in the middle latitudes, the distribution of these data collection points is far from uniform, so we get a lot of data from populated areas and much less data from sparsely populated areas. This is especially true for the relatively small number of stations that launch radiosondes instruments on a regular basis. This lack of information is one major limitation in the numerical weather forecasting process.

Visit this website for additional information about the Global Observing System of the World Meteorological Organization.
GOS_Components

In the United States, this information is coordinated by the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the National Centers for Environmental Prediction (NCEP), and the National Weather Service (NWS).

Then there are the challenges in building the numerical models, which is an entirely different topic.
 
Rotational Wind speeds have mercifully slowed. Never thought I would be grateful to see a cat 3. Translational speed been less than a slow walk NE (moving so slow that weather reporter was arrested for loitering :cool:).

Hope all will be good in your neck of the woods, this appears to be a good result.

FYI, we will be donating to the Bahamas relief once it passes us. Please remember what they are going through with something more practical than, or in addition to thoughts and prayers. I think they will need all the help they can get.
 
Tuesday morning update from Skip Foster:





Dorian update (725 am Tuesday). Headline: Dorian at a standstill; Florida will not take a direct hit although storm surge still a concern; Carolinas still in the cone.



It says a lot about how strong Dorian was that the word “only” precedes “Category 3.” That it has battered Grand Bahama for this long is beyond belief.
Dorian will start moving again later today/tonight and the issue will be — does it curve sharply enough to miss the SC/NC coasts. Too soon to tell on that, but Dorian will slowly weaken as it moves north.
For Florida’s east coast, tropical storm force winds and 4-6 feet of storm surge will still present problems. But an epic catastrophe has been avoided here and for that we should all be thankful.
 
somewhat off topic but hopefully when they raise the I95 they will add 2-3 lanes north and south.

My kid's school in Daytona Beach is supposed to be back in session Monday.

But we both wonder if the roads will be passable Sunday given the amount of rain/hurricane force winds they'll soon be experiencing.
 
Atop the immediate human toll, their tourist infrastructure - their economy - is gone. I don't see how they can survive as a nation without immense international support.

FYI, we will be donating to the Bahamas relief once it passes us. Please remember what they are going through with something more practical than, or in addition to thoughts and prayers. I think they will need all the help they can get.
 
Atop the immediate human toll, their tourist infrastructure - their economy - is gone. I don't see how they can survive as a nation without immense international support.

Cruises should be on sale for a while.
 
But we both wonder if the roads will be passable Sunday given the amount of rain/hurricane force winds they'll soon be experiencing.
It's really hard to tell when you are not near the center.

Last year, Florence dealt a cruel blow to NC, and especially to certain counties. The center stalled and that was the widespread cruel blow. The second problem was when the center finally pulled away, there were rain bands that were "training" on the same counties for over a day. You literally had one county get 30", and the next over only get 10". It caused a kind of striping effect.

We're going to have to see if:
a) the storm rain shield expands
b) whether it moves nearer to FL
c) if these bands that are passing through right now set up and train over areas.
 
NHC graphics showing current thinking on threat levels from Dorian as he approaches FL/GA/SC/NC. (Source: Mike's Weather Page)
 

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We seem to be in the clear now in South Florida. It is scary to have a Cat 5 hurricane within 100 miles of your home. I was so happy to see it weaken, turn and start north. I hope for all of us that it stays offshore. It's a horrible situation for the Bahamas.
 
We seem to be in the clear now in South Florida. It is scary to have a Cat 5 hurricane within 100 miles of your home. I was so happy to see it weaken, turn and start north. I hope for all of us that it stays offshore. It's a horrible situation for the Bahamas.

Still a lot of time left in this hurricane season, though, so don't let your guard down. There is a new system forming near the Cabo Verde Islands as we speak. That is the same general area where Dorian first formed. They say it has a 70% chance of becoming a tropical depression within the next 5 days. Here is the link for more information:

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5
 
Still a lot of time left in this hurricane season, though, so don't let your guard down.
Uh, Dorian isn't over yet. Don't think anyone in the Carolinas is putting their guard away.
 
Waiting... eating all the hurricane snacks...good thing we have time to get more.

If I eat all of my hurricane snacks, I'll do more damage to my body than a direct hit by a major hurricane - go figure. :(
 

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