Tesla Model Y (data company)

[FIREarly]

Hi guys/ladies,
This is in regards to my DW trying to remind me (no reminder needed) how much I love Tesla and the new Model Y is an amazing car. She knows and is tired of hearing me talk about Tesla "virtually" every single day. The stock is AMAZING! No dividend but it is "TAKING OFF!" In my opinion, this is the Microsoft stock from the 80s (insert other tech companies, Amazon, Facebook, etc...).

This is not about stocks, but we just refinanced our home and got a check back for just over $2k. She said why don't you (being me) put it down as a down payment for the Tesla Model Y. She knows that I do not buy cars often and have been driving Hyundai for 10+ years. Only reason it was changed is because she got a new car and I got her newer Hyundai.

Yes, I love Tesla and will drive the car for years. Yes, I work in IT and believe Tesla is a data company. They are the Google searches of cars in the future. They are the Xerox of copiers or Qtips (companies that their products' names are synonymous for what they do). EV is "run/powered" by Tesla.

The reason for all this typing is because I might be letting impulses kick-in because I am the much bigger saver and, in my mind, way behind on investing. Currently, have around $60+k in investments and 36 years old. DW has less than half of that.

One thought, is to create a YouTube vlog to try and earn some of the money back because the Model Y is so new and there are so many questions about it. Another thought is, if and when returning to work bc currently WFH, join Uber/Lyft and drive one person home from work to make money towards monthly payments. That is a reminder, I'd be taking a car loan at 3.99% to buy it from Tesla.

My buddy and IT mentor told me, in his opinion, I have to compare the Fit for Use and Fit for Purpose of a car (warranty vs utility). Without going into a ton of detail on this it basically is in reference to ITIL terminology. The idea of how much of the car's purchase price is for purpose of driving to work (AKA to metro) and groceries/house stuff vs recreational activities. I am not Mr Social (love to talk) but do not go to clubs/bars. DW and I might go to the mall/outlet to walk around... right now not much leaving the house!

Feel like I am just typing and blabbering but this was written in the tech section because Tesla is a tech company... sustainable energy company... data company. They are so much more than just a car company.

Hope you made it to here and have some good advice for another techie on the emotional/financial benefits and pitfalls of buying the brand new Tesla Model Y.

 

[Whisper66]

You are clearly a fan of Tesla cars. If you can afford the cost and potential downtime for repairs, go for it. Life is short, might as well enjoy it.

If you want the pros and cons of Tesla’s, there are several past discussions with passionate positions on both sides.

Me- I want a reliable, affordable car that I can get repaired quickly by most any shop around if needed. I also want a car that provides as much flexibility as I can reasonably get relative to going places and pulling my toys without much planning. A Tesla is certainly not in my foreseeable future but hope you enjoy yours.

 

[MRG]

I got the bug a while back and my model Y performance has been in the garage for a week now. Guess I'm not returning it. You will hear a lot about quality, mine arrived perfect. I wanted something smaller as my full size pickup was too big for the garage and about everything else.

I wanted to be able to pass on our mountain roads with short passing zones. I splurged for the performance model. It's everything I expected and more. No I'm not going to the track but I'm able to safely pass in these conditions. With dual motor comes AWD for winter weather. We have a Rubicon that will get more use then. I've already realized I have to move the Jeep outside in the cold to allow it to warm up. Tesla you can warm it up in the enclosed garage and not get brrrr cold first.

Financially I'm not going to worry, I was going to buy something, maybe not at this price. I figured I'm not getting younger and this might be one of the last vehicles I buy. I also wanted to blow some dough.

Should you do it? I don't know. ETA: I agree with Aerides comments below.
One thing I know is don't drive one unless you are willing to buy it..... It changed my expections about vehicles and driving. I'm retired from technology and last weekend we used autodrive for the first time while going up Wolfe Creek. As we were allowing the vehicle to drive around curves that make me nervous about driving I could look out over the cliff and see places I'd never seen before as I was too busy driving. Then I thought about a two line code change I had made in a CICS application early in my career. It took an army of experts months to figure out why online systems were dropping daily. [emoji848]

 

[Aerides]

If you have to finance a car and are talking about doing Uber to help with the cost, you can't afford it (no matter how wonderful it is.)

You are 36 looking at a car with a value of your investments. That's not advisable for anyone who is truly looking to FIRE, or even live within their means IMO.

Maybe in another 10 years?

 

[Animorph]

As far as Model Y I think that would be great. I'd only caution that Tesla still seems to have production startup kinks with the Y, so if you wait you may get a better car. Actually, since Tesla makes updates continuously instead of by model year, waiting is usually a good tactic if you can stand it. On the other hand, there will always be changes after buy so you could wait forever and never have the very latest for more than a few months. I waited about a year for my Model X to get the multicamera Autopilot. I actually had to change my order when they introduced the 100D version, at the cost of free Supercharging and ventilated seats. But I was lucky enough to stay relatively current for about two years.

But the budget sounds like a bigger problem. I don't think I'd spring for a Model Y ahead of boosting retirement savings, if you haven't left out a big 401k account of something. Think of paying cash for the Model Y. Does that leave your finances where you want to be? If not, don't buy. If it looks OK then make the decision to use cash or finance based on whichever costs less to you. Will you make more than 4%/year on the cash you can leave invested if you finance? That can be tricky with an investment period of only 5-7 years and regular monthly payments. You need more returns than safe investments will give you, so maybe around 50% equities minimum. 0% financing would be a no brainer, but 4% could easily end up costing you more than just paying cash.

 

[FIREarly]

Reading your posts from my phone and appreciate all of your knowledge. It sounds like a good idea to wait a little before making the purchase. Your point about buying a car just under the price of my retirement is a very interesting point. That will be stuck in my head.

FYI, DW just "convinced" me to make an appt to test drive the Model Y on Friday. She is ready to buy it yesterday! Reality is that I love Tesla but am really held up by the amount of money that it costs.

As far as my previous Uber comment, I'm thinking of ways to minimize the expense bc emotions are being used in these thoughts.

Other thoughts on my head for your feedback, growing up I spent 7k on modifications for my sports car that was built with parts that were not meant to benefit the ecosystem. This is also an emotional thought with some validity to actually wanting to help our ecosystem. Also, non-meat eater and big recycler. Both major impacts on ecosystem.

The goal is to stand strong and not buy the Model Y this Friday but it is a matter of how long it will work. Writing here because the crossover and retirement is what I want and they might be different sides of the "seasaw."

PS DW wants to get Tempurpedic bed because our 6 year old bed is "sagging." Price at store roughly$6-9k 0% finance over 4 years.

 

[aja8888]

Since your DW suggested getting the bed first, the Tesla can wait.

 

[FIREarly]

Since your DW suggested getting the bed first, the Tesla can wait.

That might be one way to limit the expenses. FYI, She is ready to buy Tesla for both of us (my daily driver) and I'm weak at telling her no to a Tesla.

Your idea is a good one about getting the mattress first. Still an expense but slower drip over 4 years and helps with one of us that sleeps poorly.

{Stay strong, do not buy Tesla this Friday!}
haha kind of like the mental voice Jim Gaffigan makes

 

[OldShooter]

Life lessons I have learned:

• Buying a new car is a decision to waste a lot of money on depreciation.
• Borrowing to buy a car is unnecessary. There are plenty of cars that almost anyone can afford. "Afford" means to pay cash.
• The most affordable car is almost certainly the one you already own.
• The guys out front can be identified by the arrows in their chests.
• A good company is not necessarily a good investment.
• A hot stock can make money for a speculator as long as greater fool comes along before the music stops.
• Toys are almost never cost effective. Don't delude yourself that an expenditure for a toy is anything but an expenditure for a toy.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I have two Tesla's. If you buy one you'll never want to drive a gas car again. They are that much better.

The people who call them toys don't own them and wouldn't know.

 

[Aerides]

PS DW wants to get Tempurpedic bed because our 6 year old bed is "sagging." Price at store roughly$6-9k 0% finance over 4 years.

A good mattress is a good choice, and will last you at least 10 years. You can get a tempurpedic for far less than that. Join Costco, they have plenty of them around or under $2k.

 

[Ready]

I would not recommend taking a test drive until you have decided you want to buy one. You are going to like driving it, but if it’s not in your budget why torture yourself?

We have two Model 3’s and they have been fantastic to drive. Haven’t been to a gas station in over a year now. We went from spending $2,000/year on gas to $400 on electricity for each car.

I’d personally give Tesla a little more time to work out the bugs on the Model Y. I don’t like buying Teslas during the first year of production. And the Model Y’s seem a little overpriced to me right now. They just lowered the prices on every Tesla model other than the Y. The Model 3 LR AWD for $46,990 is a great value. The equivalent Model Y is another $6K, which seems like toO large of a gap between the two cars.

 

[FIREarly]

So many good points from a toy is a toy to if you don't drive a Tesla you do not understand it. Also, good point about the Model Y roughly $6k over the Model 3. IF getting a Tesla it will probably be the Y bc the 3 felt small. We've already driven the Model X and 3 and like both. The X is big and kind of fees it.

Also, buying the Tempurpedic at Costco is a solid idea. We laid on the top of the line model at their store and DW was sold. Your idea is a quality point worth discussing bc either way the bed feels the same if it is not elevated (can't imagine how often that ever happens).

Need to focus on the big certification I'm studying for that expires/changes at the end of the year. That also brings more knowledge/income to make the other purchases more reasonable.

 

[OldShooter]

I have two Tesla's. If you buy one you'll never want to drive a gas car again. They are that much better.

The people who call them toys don't own them and wouldn't know.

Well, to start with I didn't call them toys. I only exposed the concept that they might be.

You obviously have a sort of messianic view where only the cognoscenti could possibly understand. You certainly are entitled to that view.

When I look at Teslas I see cars with virtually no long term reliability and maintenance cost record. Conventional manufacturers have decades, close to a century, of learning what makes for reliability and what doesn't in design and manufacturing. I see cars with long distance limitations that limit their attractiveness to hobbyists, zealots, and people who don't need to drive very far. I see cars that have the worst JD Powers initial quality scores among 32 vehicle brands and cars that Consumer Reports scores as "not recommended." I see cars with some impressive acceleration numbers that are of no practical use in a street car (and I have owned street cars with better numbers). I also see a car whose battery life and cost projections have not been validated by actual field experience. All in all, I see cars that cannot rationally be viewed as practical transportation. Are they then toys? A potential buyer gets to decide.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Well, to start with I didn't call them toys. I only exposed the concept that they might be.

You obviously have a sort of messianic view where only the cognoscenti could possibly understand. You certainly are entitled to that view.

When I look at Teslas I see cars with virtually no long term reliability and maintenance cost record. Conventional manufacturers have decades, close to a century, of learning what makes for reliability and what doesn't in design and manufacturing. I see cars with long distance limitations that limit their attractiveness to hobbyists, zealots, and people who don't need to drive very far. I see cars that have the worst JD Powers initial quality scores among 32 vehicle brands and cars that Consumer Reports scores as "not recommended." I see cars with some impressive acceleration numbers that are of no practical use in a street car (and I have owned street cars with better numbers). I also see a car whose battery life and cost projections have not been validated by actual field experience. All in all, I see cars that cannot rationally be viewed as practical transportation. Are they then toys? A potential buyer gets to decide.

Consumer reports said that Tesla owners have the highest satisfaction of any vehicle owner. The Volt came in 2nd. I notice you omitted that fact.

You choose to get your wisdom from CR, I choose to listen to the people who actually own the vehicles like Ready, MRG, and Animorph. There was a fellow named Eroscott posting here that I haven't seen lately, you might check his previous posts to learn more about what it's like driving the vehicles. Some excellent posts.

Clark Howard on his podcast said he feels like every day is his birthday when he drives his Tesla. He feels differently than you, because he actually is familiar with the driving experience.

 

[OldShooter]

Consumer reports said that Tesla owners have the highest satisfaction of any vehicle owner. The Volt came in 2nd. I notice you omitted that fact.

You choose to get your wisdom from CR, I choose to listen to the people who actually own the vehicles like Ready, MRG, and Animorph. There was a fellow named Eroscott posting here that I haven't seen lately, you might check his previous posts to learn more about what it's like driving the vehicles. Some excellent posts.

Clark Howard on his podcast said he feels like every day is his birthday when he drives his Tesla. He feels differently than you, because he actually is familiar with the driving experience.

I am sorry that the facts I listed and the personal opinions that I stated are so threatening to you. I'm not interested in engaging further, as I have found that discussions with true believers quickly turn into arguments, flinging of anecdotal "evidence," and ad hominem attacks. Have a good day.

 

[NgineER]

What you haven't talked about is your income. How much of your income does the model Y represent? If it is 10% - go for it, if it is 50% I would not do it. IMO Early retirement is delayed gratification. I think you'd go crazy if you completely deprived yourself, but buying a car for as much money as you have invested is not a good investment, or for half of your annual income is not a good idea.

I have been intrigued by Teslas, but can't get myself to spend $50-100k on a car. Affording the payment by the extra income you'll make by buying it is just a justification. I have myself been tempted by buying a nice lake home property and toyed with the idea of renting it out as an Airbnb, but I've come to the conclusion that if I have to do that justification that I can't afford it.

$6-9k for a mattress is also on the high end IMO, sure you deserve it, but is it really that much better than a $2k mattress?

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

What you haven't talked about is your income. How much of your income does the model Y represent? If it is 10% - go for it, if it is 50% I would not do it. IMO Early retirement is delayed gratification. I think you'd go crazy if you completely deprived yourself, but buying a car for as much money as you have invested is not a good investment, or for half of your annual income is not a good idea.

I have been intrigued by Teslas, but can't get myself to spend $50-100k on a car. Affording the payment by the extra income you'll make by buying it is just a justification. I have myself been tempted by buying a nice lake home property and toyed with the idea of renting it out as an Airbnb, but I've come to the conclusion that if I have to do that justification that I can't afford it.

$6-9k for a mattress is also on the high end IMO, sure you deserve it, but is it really that much better than a $2k mattress?

You can get a Model 3 for 38K. A long range Model 3 for 47K. Then deduct whatever your state rebate is. Mine was $2500. My utility rebate is 1k.

I bought when the federal tax credit was $7500 per car. That helped a lot.

 

[aja8888]

You can get a Model 3 for 38K. A long range Model 3 for 47K. Then deduct whatever your state rebate is. Mine was $2500. My utility rebate is 1k.

I bought when the federal tax credit was $7500 per car. That helped a lot.

Some of us here (me included) have set up our taxable retirement income to be zero or left in tax sheltered accounts so those Tesla tax credits don't apply to us as we pay little or no income tax each year. Also, based on the vehicle, those credits are vanishing due to the limits on vehicle sales being exceeded.

I think if I was to buy a electric vehicle, or hybrid, I would look for a low mile, clean used one rather than buy new.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Some of us here (me included) have set up our taxable retirement income to be zero or left in tax sheltered accounts so those Tesla tax credits don't apply to us as we pay little or no income tax each year. Also, based on the vehicle, those credits are vanishing due to the limits on vehicle sales being exceeded.

I think if I was to buy a electric vehicle, or hybrid, I would look for a low mile, clean used one rather than buy new.

Only Tesla and GM are over the 200,000 cap in EV sales and lost the federal credits. Any other EV including the Leaf and the large amount VW will be selling soon will still qualify for $7500.

The state and utility rebates remain.

 

[aja8888]

Only Tesla and GM are over the 200,000 cap in EV sales and lost the federal credits. Any other EV including the Leaf and the large amount VW will be selling soon will still qualify for $7500.

The state and utility rebates remain.

Understand the manufacturer part, and they are not rebates, but tax credits. And some states (5 I believe?) have no income tax to credit against (like here in Texas).

The early buyers of Tesla's made out well!

 

[MRG]

Only Tesla and GM are over the 200,000 cap in EV sales and lost the federal credits. Any other EV including the Leaf and the large amount VW will be selling soon will still qualify for $7500.

The state and utility rebates remain.

+1
My state has a 4k tax credit this year, 2500 next. The feds give me 30% credit for my home charger.

 

[NgineER]

You can get a Model 3 for 38K. A long range Model 3 for 47K. Then deduct whatever your state rebate is. Mine was $2500. My utility rebate is 1k.

I bought when the federal tax credit was $7500 per car. That helped a lot.

I could spend the money and afford it, but still have a hard time buying one. We are a family of six, so it would only be the model X/Cybertruck that would work as a family vehicle. If I could make the cybertruck fly as a business expense for the rental properties we have, I might do it, but otherwise not.

They look like sweet machines...

The owner of the local collision repair and service shop drives a Tesla S, that to me is a strong testament to the brand performance.

 

[Chuckanut]

I knew a guy who bought a used Tesla Model S, drove it all over the country using their SuperCharger network and then sold it for about what he paid for it.

I would love to have done that, but I also know I would have been frustrated by the lack of chargers on the smaller roads I like to take. Oh well... As soon as this dumb virus is vanquished or at least controlled, I think the RAV4 and I will disappear for a few months.

 

[FIREarly]

Written Friday 10:00pm:

Canceled the Model Y test drive! Happy and sad. I will own a Tesla in the future but it is not the right time.

From someone's earlier post, the car would be roughly 40% of household income. Keep studying new certifications and increase income!

Another convo from yesterday was about a colleague saving to buy a 25k BMW cash. For buying cars, cash is king.