The erosion of ideals

[audreyh1]

That's another reason I chose to work at MicroCorp

Same here. I worked for a MicroCorp still run by the founders.

 

[GrayHare]

And now we've become the stock-holding, profit-seeking, ideal-crushing set.

 

[brewer12345]

And now we've become the stock-holding, profit-seeking, ideal-crushing set.

Ideals are nice, but they don't mix well with the world of business. Let's e hard nosed realists: if the commode hits the windmill, ain't nobody bailing you and me out from the goodness of their hearts. That means you need to be belt and suspenders prepared for bad things happening (as they surely will). Its a sad fact of life. OTOH, once you are secure, you may have the luxury of being an idealist/helping others. IME, it is usually a good idea to separate your ideals from your career/the business of you.

The times in life I have been able to pursue ideals and work together usually had drawbacks. Wading armpit high through bullcrap was usually just the appetizer.

 

[ownyourfuture]

Dude, capitalism and greed is good.

 

[ownyourfuture]

So, ideals need to be discarded.


The point is that economic life boils down to nothing more than what gets you the most. No glory, no intellectual actualization. A basic organic urge and response, not much different than a bowel movement.

I needed a laugh tonight & you delivered!

 

[Music Lover]

Dude, capitalism and greed is good. Without it, we wouldn't have all the great technology and innovation through many sectors that have dramatically changed the world.

We wouldn't even have basic hand tools without capitalism.

 

[ERD50]

...
Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar, specifically the dollar in the pocket of MegaCorp. So many decisions were made based on financial return to the company, rather than being the right thing to do. ....

Capitalism is a lousy system, but it's a lot better than the alternatives. ...

Dude, capitalism and greed is good. Without it, we wouldn't have all the great technology and innovation through many sectors that have dramatically changed the world.

Gotta agree with those two responses.

MegaCorp can't do any good for anyone if they don't make a profit and stay in business.

... The optimism and idealism of youth is fleeting and easily undermined by capitalism and greed. ....

Hmmm, I think the optimism fades away when we see we need to work hard and satisfy the customer in order to keep our jobs, and keep putting food on our family table. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

... Anyway .. just venting ....

Well, don't just vent then - do something about it! Start a company that does most everything right, treats everyone mostly right most of the time, and still makes a profit so they can stay in business and keep doing all these good things for all these people. Should be easy right?

What was it those optimistic and idealistic youth said? "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Sounds kinda right.

-ERD50

 

[harley]

Well, don't just vent then - do something about it! Start a company that does most everything right, treats everyone mostly right most of the time, and still makes a profit so they can stay in business and keep doing all these good things for all these people. Should be easy right?

Ben and Jerry did it. It just requires a lack of greed and really good flavors. Mmm, Chunky Monkey.

 

[mamadogmamacat]

Size, matters , so to speak , from my working life anyway.

I mean this, and YMMV:
i started at a small corp in an industry that still had several such entities. In some cases the corp founder was till around. Yes, making a profit was important, but there was still enough excitement and energy around the product that there was no room for, and not yet any incentive for, the corporate doublespeak, social climbers, and excessive paper pushing.
My second employer was of a similar type, but the process of industry consolidation had begun (why i had to leave first corp when they were bought out).
With the third and fourth employers, no more founders as they were all long dead by then and replaced by a large bureaucracy. With consolidation into huge mega corps, the corporate leadership was removed form the day to day activities and they were more comfortable with, well, corporate doublespeak, social climbers, and excessive paper pushing.

it is what it is, and at least there was more stability in the large corp and hence i got my modest pension and got out asap

 

[tulak]

I guess I’ve been lucky, but I’m on my 3rd MegaCorp over 25 years and have no complaints. I think it’s helpful that I’ve carved a comfortable niche in all of the places I worked and have done well in avoiding BS (for the most part).

It’s not perfect, but no situation ever is. But overall, it’s pretty good. I get a regular paycheck with benefits and even some perks now and then.

It’d be great to be FI, but I can think of many situations worse than working for a MegaCorp.

 

[Red Badger]

Capitalism? I'll have a double shot, thank you!! And if I may, I'll wash that down with a republic form of government.

My megac*rp fed my family, and provided sufficient wealth for me to cash out at 60. Was it all unicorns and puppies? Nope. But it was, on balance, a challenging and rewarding career.

I guess if one works at GE today, or Sunbeam 20 years ago (or companies of like minded values), work life may suck. But, like the leaders of said companies, you better be looking out for number one. But do so in a manner that allows you to face the man (or woman) in the mirror each day.

YMMV!

 

[DrRoy]

Unfortunately we have been conditioned from early childhood about the questionable importance of acquiring material things and keeping up with the Joneses.

I never got this bug and got LBYM instead. There will always be someone that has more stuff than you. We still lived well and had some fun, just put a good portion aside to become FI at the same time.

 

[marko]

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that the benefits of capitalism would come into question on a "Financially Independent" forum?

 

[foxfirev5]

I've worked for small family businesses as well as large corporations. Fortunately I worked many more years for the big bad corporation and was able to re. If I stayed at the small family owned companies i would still be working 60 hours a week for the original owners grandkids.
I never felt my ideals were compromised at all. Work and life separate worlds.

 

[gauss]

Alberio13,

Once I retired several things changed, for the positive, with regards to my view on this:
1) You hopefully realize that you have enough money and this no longer needs to be your primary concern

2) Without the daily stress of dealing with the j*b, you will have time to take on on things that you aspire too.

3) By getting involved with several volunteer activities I was able to both satisfy my need altruistic needs but also to demonstrate to myself that I am very valuable to society. In both of these activities, I was quickly recognized as a very high quality person and treated accordingly. Much better feeling than at MC.

If your Firecalc score is 99% as suggested in other threads if I recall, and if you did a thorough job of analyzing/predicting expenses it sounds like you should plan to exit MC very soon. I think you said that you are in your 60's so you have 15 years less of retirement than I will (assuming consistent life expectancy for the two of us)

I had close co-workers die in their mid fifties after I left, who were still on the job, retirement eligible, and financially secure.

Did you ever share raw numbers with us (ie. is your 99% FireCalc annual spending budget $20,000 or $70,000)? I know some were second guessing you when you were concerned about the $60,000 college bill, but again this could be a fairly small expense if everything else is well balanced financially.

-gauss

 

[marko]

Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar...

Respectfully, it took you 40 years to realize this?

 

[joeea]

greed is good.

I think I've heard that before...

 

[flintnational]

In defense of Mega Corp. and Capitalism

Over the last couple of hundred years, the great success of human kind has been the spread of capitalism and democracy. It has led to 100's of millions of people being lifted out of poverty, sickness, illiteracy and early death. See Hans Rosling's video or his book, Factfullness. The subtitle of the book is, "Ten reasons why we are wrong about the world and why things are better than you think".

Corporations are how humans organize to improve their lives. And, there has never been a better system for improving human outcomes. In at least the Western world, capitalism also allows for those that see things differently to start their own businesses or work in a manner (charity organizations) that benefits society but also achieves the individual's ideals.

 

[JoeWras]

I was very idealistic in the mid 80s and joined a Megacorp (IBM) that had some pretty high ideals. MCIMB at that time has had lasting impacts on the USA. They placed some of their sites in areas that could really use it. MCIBM changed the state of NC forever (in a good way) by locating a large site to the upstart RTP.

I saw true diversity at MCIBM live I've never seen before or since. I saw the LGBQT community respected waaaay before it was ever in the news.

This was all great.

Until it wasn't.

I left in the early 90s once I realized that these ideals were going to fly out the window at the first sign of financial pain.

 

[marko]

I was very idealistic in the mid 80s and joined a Megacorp (IBM) that had some pretty high ideals. MCIMB at that time has had lasting impacts on the USA. They placed some of their sites in areas that could really use it. MCIBM changed the state of NC forever (in a good way) by locating a large site to the upstart RTP.

I saw true diversity at MCIBM live I've never seen before or since. I saw the LGBQT community respected waaaay before it was ever in the news.

I did lots of business with IBM in the 70s and 80s; from San Jose to Essex Junction and every place in between. Was always impressed with their approach, mindset and 'human-ness' despite their size. Most everyone there seemed reasonably happy.

 

[corn18]

I find working at my particular MC very rewarding. We are a defense contractor and make products that save lives and protect the U.S. I always tell my troops that we don't make paper plates and toilette paper. Do we make a profit? Yup. But there is no shame in that. Is there BS? Sure, but not enough to overshadow the vision.

This is the only MC I have worked for after 20 years in the Navy, so maybe I have a limited POV.

 

[albireo13]

Hi Gauss,
I'll have to post my numbers soon.

I actually can't complain too much about my job. I'm not digging ditches for a living.
Plus, it has allowed me a good living.


It's the schedule-driven stress and foolishness at MegaCorp that has me frustrated.
I used to work at Hewlett-Packard back in the day when Bill and Dave (H&P) were still around. They insisted on running the company as they saw fit, quality driven and prioritizing "doing the right thing". Met them a few times. They annually would tour the HP divisions and enjoyed walking the floor and mingling "in the trenches" with the workers. After they were gone the company morphed into another bean-counter driven corporation.

 

[Mdlerth]

I'm not a doctor, but I take aspirin anyway

As I approach my retirement age, I recall the halcyon days when I was graduating college and preparing to change the world.

Things were clear .... there were so many opportunities ... awesome careers awaited!

Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar, specifically the dollar in the pocket of MegaCorp. So many decisions were made based on financial return to the company, rather than being the right thing to do.

The optimism and idealism of youth is fleeting and easily undermined by capitalism and greed.

Anyway .. just venting ....

It sounds like you are feeling some guilt over having been a practitioner of capitalism. No need. I give you dispensation. You are forgiven. Go now and sin no more.

We live in an imperfect world, and do what we have to do to get by. Don't underestimate the contribution you - or your MC - made to the universe just because it also earned you a living. Unless you were in organized crime or politics (i.e., disorganized crime), your employer wouldn't have been in business for long if it didn't provide something of value.

One more thing. The "optimism and idealism of youth" is about 99% based on naivete. If we were all that wise at age 22, we would not have engaged in some of the crazy things we did then.

 

[Dash man]

The capitalist system isn’t bad, it’s what individuals do with it. It has made my family secure and allowed us access to good health care. It allows us to give to other family members when needed. We also give to food banks, shelters, medical research, assistance to veterans, we sponsor children in other countries, give to emergency aid, support small business startups in developing countries, and to our church.
Those who focus on material things may be misguided, but outlooks change as we age.

 

[brewer12345]

I was very idealistic in the mid 80s and joined a Megacorp (IBM) that had some pretty high ideals. MCIMB at that time has had lasting impacts on the USA. They placed some of their sites in areas that could really use it. MCIBM changed the state of NC forever (in a good way) by locating a large site to the upstart RTP.

I saw true diversity at MCIBM live I've never seen before or since. I saw the LGBQT community respected waaaay before it was ever in the news.

This was all great.

Until it wasn't.

I left in the early 90s once I realized that these ideals were going to fly out the window at the first sign of financial pain.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but when I hear the word diversity in a corporate setting all that comes to mind is clueless hr taffy pulls and bs.