Tip the Owner?

[swakyaby]

I hate being served 4 fine dinners at Per Se or French Laundry with fine wines and paying 20% of that.

If you knew a tip was already included in the restaurant bill, then why say the above?

 

[bmcgonig]

If you knew a tip was already included in the restaurant bill, then why say the above?

Whether it’s included or not was not my point. It’s still a percentage of a large number versus a percentage of a small number as in Applebees.

And did you miss the part about wine? Wine of course is extra. The tip is not included in that.

 

[swakyaby]

And did you miss the part about wine? Wine of course is extra. The tip is not included in that.

Ahh, I did not realize that. Thanks.

 

[GladToBeFree]

Frankly, if leaving a 20% tip would affect my lifestyle or keep me up at night, I'd stop eating out. I'm not going to concern myself with the question, "Is he/she the owner?" If I give a decent tip to a dozen undeserving waiters and one hard worker with a real need for the income I'd consider it a good thing. I'm not rich, but I'm not going to run out of money leaving decent tips.

Jim.

 

[kongmen]

Firstly, I am NOT against tipping, and do so accordingly. Before the vultures swoop.

But I totally disagree with these statements. If you do not like the job, feel you do not get paid enough, or cannot make it on the wages, get a new one that pays more. ESPECIALLY in this day of short staffed businesses. That is what we did as youngsters and are reaping the benefits now and when we ER'd. The ONLY way these cheap greedy restauranteurs will learn is when folks refuse to work for those wages. You get what you sow.

No one is FORCED to do anything in America. Telling someone to stay home because they disagree in tipping paid employees for DOING THEIR JOB, is simply draconian. OK, their wages are not good, but that is an AMERICAN problem. They pay regular sustainable wages in other civilized sensible countries.

Greed has taken over the served food industry just as it has everywhere folks can get away with it in the USA.

Most sensible folks would rather pay more for the food, than be scowled at by "Whoever" even folks on this site, for not giving what one person thinks is a suitable tip.

So give it up shaming people for doing what they think is right, because someone else does not agree with it. Just because some folks like to throw their money around and let others know about it, other do not. Tipping in OPTIONAL and personal. Remember some folks cannot afford to give tips, even a modest one. Should they be prohibited from eating out once in a while?

"Greed is good" it keeps people employed.

 

[kongmen]

Well, sometimes it's optional.

We were in a restaurant last week and our party had 12 people at the table. At the end of the meal, I was presented with the bill that had a "20% Large Party Gratuity" already figured in on the total amount. Then I was given the option to add even more on top of that after I gave them my credit card. This was on a bill of between four and five hundred dollars. And the service was slow and inaccurate. Maybe since they knew they were going to get a minimum 20% tip no matter what, they didn't care.

+1

 

[kongmen]

Sure. But it is also a good indication you may not be cut out to be a waiter, and would best seek other employment. Or this particular restaurant is poorly managed or overstaffed, in which case you should also seek other employment.

Should the restaurant be forced to schedule wait staff who are not serving customers well and not earning good tips, and pay them more than staff that are earning their tips?

Of course not. The situation is self-correcting.

Well said.

 

[SheitlQueen]

I would tip. The fact that he is the owner is irrelevant to me, he did the work and if you were happy with the service, tip him. He might have had to fill in for someone, so kudos to him for doing so.

 

[captain3d]

Is it ok to ask how much they get paid before deciding on a tip amount?

 

[DektolMan]

We frequent the Finger Lakes region in NY and one year we went to a restaurant, enjoyed the food and service and tipped accordingly. The following we stopped by again and they had a sign displayed at the entrance and at each table stating that they are now paying their wait staff competitive wages and there was no need to tip.


Our waitress was very nice and I asked her how she liked the new wage system. Well she hated it saying she made more money before because she gave good service, made suggestions and tried to sell a dessert or another glass of wine. She says she has no incentive now to do that now.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

We frequent the Finger Lakes region in NY and one year we went to a restaurant, enjoyed the food and service and tipped accordingly. The following we stopped by again and they had a sign displayed at the entrance and at each table stating that they are now paying their wait staff competitive wages and there was no need to tip.

Our waitress was very nice and I asked her how she liked the new wage system. Well she hated it saying she made more money before because she gave good service, made suggestions and tried to sell a dessert or another glass of wine. She says she has no incentive now to do that now.

That's because the current model is very much like the commission or AUM model. I'd rather they got a flat fee for their services, at least then they won't be pushing things based on how much money it makes them. And if wait staff were paid a living wage rather than the "tipped" wage, I'd still tip a small amount (5-10%) for great to exceptional service.

 

[Parfumeur]

> We always pay cash so credit card fees are not an issue for us.

AFAIK, part of the contract that CC companies have with stores, is NOT to offer a cash discount, nor add a fee for the use of the CC. That was at least AmEx's position a while back. Things change. BAck then, if you reported the issue, they could lose the CC business. Albeit, today with all the cash back offers, I could see that, and "I" would want that 2-3% discount for paying cash. If this is still the case, I wonder how they itemized the fee for using a CC? Must be burried in the charges.

Other item I ALWAYS do, leave the tip in CASH, and I write the word =CASH= in the section that dsays tip. YOUHAVE TO WRITE CASH, else some weasel may/will add a tip after the fact. This avoids the CC charging a fee on the tip, and makes the tip immediately available. In the US, tip 20%, but IRS will impute about 15% of the bill. Else if part of the CC cahrge the full 20% is taxed. Another issue, I never tip on the tax, some restaurant will add the tax into the amount for the suggested tip. If that is the case, most likely there are other issues with the restaurant, and a second visit not recommended <g>

 

[Parfumeur]

We frequent the Finger Lakes region in NY and one year we went to a restaurant, enjoyed the food and service and tipped accordingly. The following we stopped by again and they had a sign displayed at the entrance and at each table stating that they are now paying their wait staff competitive wages and there was no need to tip.


Our waitress was very nice and I asked her how she liked the new wage system. Well she hated it saying she made more money before because she gave good service, made suggestions and tried to sell a dessert or another glass of wine. She says she has no incentive now to do that now.

Usually should just say "Service Included", in which case, if the service is very good to excetional, an 4-6% cash tip can be left to the waiter at time of payment, not left on the table. 6% if you plan to come back <g>.

 

[Music Lover]

We frequent the Finger Lakes region in NY and one year we went to a restaurant, enjoyed the food and service and tipped accordingly. The following we stopped by again and they had a sign displayed at the entrance and at each table stating that they are now paying their wait staff competitive wages and there was no need to tip.


Our waitress was very nice and I asked her how she liked the new wage system. Well she hated it saying she made more money before because she gave good service, made suggestions and tried to sell a dessert or another glass of wine. She says she has no incentive now to do that now.

The group of people that complain the least about tipping are those who get tips. I know a few servers, they make good money for what is basically almost an entry level job.

 

[Badger]

The group of people that complain the least about tipping are those who get tips. I know a few servers, they make good money for what is basically almost an entry level job.

And the people who work at expensive restaurants that charge high prices are the happiest about tipping. Maybe not so much those that work at the low end of the spectrum. Assuming that you get 20% from 20 customers a night of a $15 meal you don't have much of an income to live on. But 20% from 10 customers a night on a $100 meal is not too shabby for an entry level job.

Cheers!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Disclosure, I am not against "reasonable" tipping. So no shaming please.

Why should tipping be based on the price of a meal and not a fixed price? Then everyone would know the rules. It could be added to the bill automatically. If one did not like it, then they do not have to eat out.

Leaving an additional tip, when a tip is included simply to impress the server or to make one feel better is pointless. That is like going to an all-inclusive resort and paying for a meals and drinks.

Current Tipping is well overrated and designed to intimidate or shame diners into leaving one. One could eat at a different establishment every week and not leave a tip and still go to a different place without leaving one tip.

Honestly, 18% of $500 and 18% of $100 is very different. Basically, one is paying a lot more for the services when the amount of work is about the same, if not less. One could argue that a Wait Person at an Appleby's or Longhorn, works a lot harder than one at Ruth's Chris, and their base wage is probably also less.

Fixed tipping NOT based on the cost of the meal, but based on a per person system would be way better.

 

[Aerides]

Honestly, 18% of $500 and 18% of $100 is very different. Basically, one is paying a lot more for the services when the amount of work is about the same, if not less. One could argue that a Wait Person at an Appleby's or Longhorn, works a lot harder than one at Ruth's Chris, and their base wage is probably also less.
.

So many people here have never waited tables!

I knew servers who swore by the breakfast shift. Those checks are small, but the tables turn over fast. 3 or 4 seatings over 2 hours easily. Take the order, bring the food/coffee, maybe one refill - done. And people round up the tips on the small checks - no one thinks twice about leaving $3 on a $12 check.

But those fancy expensive dinners? That $200 table sat for 2+ hours, and there were easily 5 or 6 trips to that table. Drinks, Apps, Entree, After Dinner something, clearings in between. And no one gets hired serving at those places without good experience - not entry level in the waiting world.

The amount of effort per hour might be the same, but per table it differs greatly.

And let's not forget, regardless of the location or menu prices, that server showed up 2+ hours before the first customer arrived. They cleaned silverware, folded napkins, learned the specials for the day, and long after the last table leaves they'll be emptying the coffee station.

 

[kongmen]

So many people here have never waited tables!

I knew servers who swore by the breakfast shift. Those checks are small, but the tables turn over fast. 3 or 4 seatings over 2 hours easily. Take the order, bring the food/coffee, maybe one refill - done. And people round up the tips on the small checks - no one thinks twice about leaving $3 on a $12 check.

But those fancy expensive dinners? That $200 table sat for 2+ hours, and there were easily 5 or 6 trips to that table. Drinks, Apps, Entree, After Dinner something, clearings in between. And no one gets hired serving at those places without good experience - not entry level in the waiting world.

The amount of effort per hour might be the same, but per table it differs greatly.

And let's not forget, regardless of the location or menu prices, that server showed up 2+ hours before the first customer arrived. They cleaned silverware, folded napkins, learned the specials for the day, and long after the last table leaves they'll be emptying the coffee station.

I can list all of the particulars of my job and express the effort exerted but there is no one lobbying/shaming those I serve for higher pay for me.


My contention is that everyone is free to decide for him or her self if and how much they will or will not tip.

 

[ERD50]

So many people here have never waited tables!

I knew servers who swore by the breakfast shift. Those checks are small, but the tables turn over fast. 3 or 4 seatings over 2 hours easily. Take the order, bring the food/coffee, maybe one refill - done. And people round up the tips on the small checks - no one thinks twice about leaving $3 on a $12 check.

But those fancy expensive dinners? That $200 table sat for 2+ hours, and there were easily 5 or 6 trips to that table. Drinks, Apps, Entree, After Dinner something, clearings in between. And no one gets hired serving at those places without good experience - not entry level in the waiting world.

The amount of effort per hour might be the same, but per table it differs greatly.

And let's not forget, regardless of the location or menu prices, that server showed up 2+ hours before the first customer arrived. They cleaned silverware, folded napkins, learned the specials for the day, and long after the last table leaves they'll be emptying the coffee station.

I think this points out exactly why I hold the view that it is the manager and employee that should negotiate compensation. They are certainly (or should be) aware of all of this.

And you are right, as a customer, I may not know any of that. Which is why I see tipping as a very odd way to go about it.

And as just pointed out in the previous post, most people have no real idea what another person's occupation entails. Why would I want that uninformed person to be a large part of the equation for my salary? Makes no sense to me.

-ERD50

 

[Aerides]

I can agree that the practice of tipping is an odd way to manage compensation for wait staff.
I can, however, not agree that the way to signal one's disagreement with that practice is a good reason not to tip the person on the short end of that stick.

So, even though I might agree that tipping is a lousy way to pay people, I'd never agree with stiffing the server just to make that point. Or, if you plan to stiff them, alert the host when you enter the restaurant and ask or a server who won't mind.

 

[bmcgonig]

I can agree that the practice of tipping is an odd way to manage compensation for wait staff.
I can, however, not agree that the way to signal one's disagreement with that practice is a good reason not to tip the person on the short end of that stick.

So, even though I might agree that tipping is a lousy way to pay people, I'd never agree with stiffing the server just to make that point. Or, if you plan to stiff them, alert the host when you enter the restaurant and ask or a server who won't mind.

I absolutely agree with you here. You should definitely tip cos that’s the system we have,

However there’s nuance to this. If I give a 15% tip versus 20% is that stiffing? How about 10% tip if most of the bill is wine? Some people I know rationalize giving one percentage tip for food, and a smaller percentage for wine that might be quite expensive.

 

[Midpack]

We frequent the Finger Lakes region in NY and one year we went to a restaurant, enjoyed the food and service and tipped accordingly. The following we stopped by again and they had a sign displayed at the entrance and at each table stating that they are now paying their wait staff competitive wages and there was no need to tip.


Our waitress was very nice and I asked her how she liked the new wage system. Well she hated it saying she made more money before because she gave good service, made suggestions and tried to sell a dessert or another glass of wine. She says she has no incentive now to do that now.

You’ll find most servers would agree. The people complaining here don’t actually care about servers or they’d ask them or read up on their POV, they only care about their out of pocket costs.

 

[Midpack]

And the people who work at expensive restaurants that charge high prices are the happiest about tipping. Maybe not so much those that work at the low end of the spectrum. Assuming that you get 20% from 20 customers a night of a $15 meal you don't have much of an income to live on. But 20% from 10 customers a night on a $100 meal is not too shabby for an entry level job.

Cheers!

Those aren’t the same job at all. There aren’t many jobs or professions where all employees are interchangeable. You’ve obviously never been a server, many here assume it’s a rote job anyone could do, when it’s actually not. You really think any Denny’s server could work at The French Laundry, same job?

There sure are a lot of self serving views here…flame away.

 

[ERD50]

I can agree that the practice of tipping is an odd way to manage compensation for wait staff.
I can, however, not agree that the way to signal one's disagreement with that practice is a good reason not to tip the person on the short end of that stick.

So, even though I might agree that tipping is a lousy way to pay people, I'd never agree with stiffing the server just to make that point. Or, if you plan to stiff them, alert the host when you enter the restaurant and ask or a server who won't mind.

I certainly agree it isn't right to just stiff the wait staff. Because it is the custom, and is part of the system, I tip, and usually round up from 20% (I include the tax in the math, so that's > 20% of the bill). But I don't have to like it.

If I were to leave a zero tip (I don't think I ever did that), then it would be "for cause" and would not be "stiffing" the staff (they obviously didn't deserve the tip), and yes, I'd let management know, so they could do something about it.

You’ll find most servers would agree. The people complaining here don’t actually care about servers or they’d ask them or read up on their POV, they only care about their out of pocket costs.

I don't see a connection between thinking tipping is a stupid way to compensate employees and a burden on the customer, and "not caring about servers". It's a bit rude to [-]infer[/-] come right out and accuse me of not caring about the workers, when all I'm saying is their compensation should be between them and their boss, like most occupations.

I 'd prefer to pay the listed price for my meal (or go elsewhere), and let the management take care of their staff (or the staff can go elsewhere) - I don't want to be put on a guilt trip about what % is "acceptable". It takes away some of the enjoyment of the meal.

-ERD50

 

[bmcgonig]

Those aren’t the same job at all. There aren’t many jobs or professions where all employees are interchangeable. You’ve obviously never been a server, many here assume it’s a rote job anyone could do, when it’s actually not. You really think any Denny’s server could work at The French Laundry, same job?

There sure are a lot of self serving views here…flame away.

I do have a question that you might be able to help with.

French Laundry is $350 a plate. Of which almost $50 is a service charge. So let’s say $300. Now it’s hard to find a bottle of wine there for under $200. They go all the way to way over $10000. So let’s say I drink half a bottle of wine. The total for my meal is $400. Let’s say there’s 4 of us eating. That’s $1600. 15% tip is $240.

Let’s say dinner lasts 3 hours. That’s $80/hour just service charge for my table.

I’m assuming the same waiter is handling other tables. No idea but maybe 3-4 others.

That’s $320-$400 **per hour** service for all the tables.

Are those numbers close? Does the waiter split with the other staff and what’s the split?