You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink

[dtbach]

But it's not just about how long you live. It's also about during life itself. How many people during this Covid era who lost jobs or hours are suffering now because they have no savings to get them to the other side after vaccinations? Perhaps they now know why it's smart to at least have a 6 to 10 month cushion of savings.

 

[kgtest]

People who want you to tell them the secret never want to hear a story that starts with "well, about 30 years ago, I . . . ." They want the secret that will allow them to bypass those 30 years.

Precisely. It started with a seed, then we watered it everyday, eventually it blossomed, and grew into something that keeps us outta the heat and in the shade... at least I think that's where that phrase

"got it made in the shade" came from!

Someone planted a seed...etc etc.

What floors me is the one's who seemingly do everything right and catch cancer in their 30s... and these other knuckleheads have had their heads in the sand. Life...aint....fair!

 

[Amethyst]

Probably not. More likely, they are starting GoFundMes and hoping for UBI.

Perhaps they now know why it's smart to at least have a 6 to 10 month cushion of savings.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I have a public high school education, B student. I went to work and invested in my business and self and ended up FIRED at age 50. I live a modest lifestyle, but very comfortable. Like most on this site.


Many people come to me looking for a magic bullet to get there. I tell them to save 30% of their income for 30 years and invest it. Doesn't matter what your income is, you'll have enough to be independent at your current income level.


Not a one has taken me up on it. Discipline is #1 and I haven't met anyone who has it, even though many are earning more than I ever did.


I am happy with what I have and can't worry about others. I gave up on trying to help. I wish everyone well, but I can't do it for them.

 

[Amethyst]

The grasshopper plays, works when he must, has a grand time, and doesn't worry too much about tomorrow because he's just not wired that way. Either it'll be winter and he'll be dead anyway, or he'll figure out some solution in the nick of time.

The ant works hard and saves, because she's wired to fret about "What if....When I'm old..." She may not have as much fun as the grasshopper, but that's OK because she's more interested in security.

And that's how I see the people posting, or the ones we're posting about, in this thread.

 

[LXEX55]

To quote Mike Tyson: "If I knew i was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself"

 

[Amethyst]

Tyson is the last person I'd expect to say that. I doubt self-care is in his vocabulary!

The quote is usually attributed to George Burns, who probably got it from his grandfather.

To quote Mike Tyson: "If I knew i was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself"

 

[HI Bill]

Back when I started my first job out of college, I also didn't think I'd live to see retirement. To me, age 50+ was incredibly old, incredibly far away, and I just couldn't visualize myself being that old. I was somewhat of a thrill seeker, and figured I'd kill myself through some auto, diving, hiking, or air accident. 2 years later, I started my second job out of college, and started saving enough to get the company match. I became a LBYM'r and increased my savings rate at every opportunity. You can try to lead the horse to water, but you may not get him or her there.

 

[ckelly78z]

I see this from co-workers as well, they just don't care about saving for retirement, "I'll think about that when it happens" is the response I get from them about. Another one of my favorite quotes is "I'm going to have to work until I die".

At 55, I really look forward to my retirement days coming up in the near future, and these poor (literally) folks have nothing but work in their future.,,,so sad !

 

[Time2]

In my entire life I only knew one person who was reasonably certain that she'd never see 65 because of genetics. She was right. The irony was, she still had plenty of money when she passed and could have lived a much more luxurious existence but she didn't care about that stuff.

All the others didn't have any excuse for not saving and are now regretting it.

Back in the early 90s, I worked with a guy that told me he he was cashing out his retirement funds from a job he previously had. I tried to talk him out of it. His response was, all the guys in my family die in their 50s, I don't think I'll need it. He's 66 yrs old now, I talked with him a few months ago, he complained about not having enough money living on SS and his wife's small pension. He ask how my wife and I were doing, I said, " Rick you remember my wife and I always saved and invested, were doing well." I didn't tell him we were multi (more than 1) Millionaires.

 

[DrRoy]

This year has taught me well that people have an unbelievable variety of beliefs about their lives and the future and many have no interest in facts at all. How they survive with their decision making amazes me.

+1. It's absolutely mind boggling.

We saved way more than 10% of our earnings over 30 years of work. I'd say more like 30%, sometimes more. We took vacations, ate out, were socially active, had a nice house...nothing extravagant. No one knows how long they will live. Everything in life is a risk of some sort. "Live below your means" is a mantra on this forum. This philosophy has worked for most of us

Pretty much our story too. Enjoying the ability to blow that dough!

 

[Nemo2]

"You can lead a horse to water, but have you ever smelled a wet horse?"

 

[Markola]

"Why is the dog howling?"

"He's sittin' on a cocklebur."

"Why doesn't he get off the cocklebur?"

"He'd ruther holler."

That’s about sums it up. The few friends I have who are rich never needed or wanted my advice. Occasionally, other friends ask me money-related questions. I give my best advice or buy them a relevant book, because I love them, but they consistently keep sitting on the cocklebur. Oh well, they are each stronger at things that I “should” be better at.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

I think there are a variety of reasons why people do not save or invest for their future. One of the biggest reasons, at least how I see it, and I think someone already hit on it, is when they realize how long it will take, they either become disinterested or just never get started or both.

Investing and compound interest takes time to work its magic and saving money isn't easy and a lot of people just can't get interested in that. They live in the now.

 

[Nemo2]

And, when you listen.....or pretend to listen...to what some of them consider important......it's like the song says, "I smile and wave".

 

[mystang52]

I've given unsolicited financial advice 3 times. One to each of my kids after they got their first job after college.
The 3rd time was at a meeting with my staff at one employer. I don't remember the context, but it was nothing more than a general suggestion to LBYM, and to start automatic payroll deduction -in any small amount - for US Savings Bonds. No one followed up my suggestion.
Unless I'm asked, I stay mum on this topic.

ETA: Both of my kids did heed my suggestions.

 

[jollystomper]

Investing and saving for the long run is not most peoples idea of "fun", or at least compared to having a good time. It does not provide instant gratification.

I have posted here before about a co-worker who let me give her feedback on her finances, as she said she could not figure out how to save. Her response to me suggesting how much she could save by cutting back or eliminating things like lottery tickets, bar/happy hour drinking, smoking, and partying was "but then I won't have any fun!"

Also, more people these days, in my opinion, seek "guarantees" instead of "opportunities". "Opportunities" give you a chance, do not guarantee success - but can move you closer. That is too uncertain for many people, who will not try without a "guarantee". Even investing in the market - I have had folks say to me things like "It is too risky, it goes down a lot". They want that growth without it ever going down.

As for not living that long as the OP mentioned... I can understand that, do a degree. I believe we are bombarded with more negativity today than ever, to the point where one has to choose to avoid it. It is like when I grew up in a bad neighborhood, there were many reminders of how bad life was My parents had to fight to show their children that there was more to life.

One of the downsides of technology is that it has made it easier to bring all the bad news across the world to us, at even younger ages, and few work to put things in perspective.Younger people who have grown up under all that, particularly since the late 1990s, can easily fall into the "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we will die" attitude.

 

[pb4uski]

I'm late to the thread and haven't read anything other than the OP, but the OP and explain to the friend that money/wealth gives one choices... for example to defer SS for a higher payout if you wish to, or have more reliable transportation, or live in a better/safer/more convenient area, or retire when their physical abilities decline or their BS bucket is full.

Lack of wealth limits your choices... people end up taking SS at 62, or puttig up with that unreliable care or paying for expensive repairs to a car that really shoud be traded, or living in an unsafe area or continuing to work in a toxic workplace or when it is physically difficult... they have no other choice.

Saving and investing gives you FU money.

 

[REWahoo]

This reminds me of a conversation I overheard at the table next to us a couple of years ago while DW and I were eating lunch. There were four guys sitting there, all looked to be in their 20's or 30's. They appeared to be auto mechanics as they were all wearing work shirts with the name of a nearby car dealership.

They were discussing their company 401k plan and how they weren't going to participate even though the company had some sort of a match. The reasoning a couple of them gave was they couldn't afford to give up anything from their paycheck and it was hard to get your money out if you needed it, etc.

One of the youngest spoke up and said he was going to participate. His dad had talked him into it so he could get the company match. I thought, good, at least one of them 'gets it'!

Then he went on to say his dad told him it was a savings account so he could withdraw it after five years (vesting?) and use the company's money to help him buy a new truck.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^^ Attitudes like theirs is a clear and not-so-present danger to the republic.

 

[JP.mpls]

Mystang,
When I got my first job in engineering my boss sat me down, and recommended that I put 10% of each check into my 401k, and it would also get matched 4% by the company. I acted on his recommendation.
I wasn't used to making money, so I never missed it.

When I got my first raise, he recommended putting half into the 401k, and to keep doing this until I was investing at least 15%, plus the company match.

I had my wife do the same.

We were easily ready to FIRE in our mid 50s with a paid off house. Just working stiffs with a LBYM lifestyle.

It strangely didn't really feel like a sacrifice.

I think it pays off double, because it gives you confidence and some security as an older worker in your 50s. That is a big deal in our current society. You also get to spend it in retirement.

I'm hanging out in the nice weather down in Florida for the winter. It isn't a bad lifestyle.

Take care, JP

I've given unsolicited financial advice 3 times. One to each of my kids after they got their first job after college.
The 3rd time was at a meeting with my staff at one employer. I don't remember the context, but it was nothing more than a general suggestion to LBYM, and to start automatic payroll deduction -in any small amount - for US Savings Bonds. No one followed up my suggestion.
Unless I'm asked, I stay mum on this topic.

ETA: Both of my kids did heed my suggestions.

 

[Car-Guy]

This reminds me of a conversation I overheard at the table next to us a couple of years ago while DW and I were eating lunch. There were four guys sitting there, all looked to be in their 20's or 30's. They appeared to be auto mechanics as they were all wearing work shirts with the name of a nearby car dealership.

They were discussing their company 401k plan and how they weren't going to participate even though the company had some sort of a match. The reasoning a couple of them gave was they couldn't afford to give up anything from their paycheck and it was hard to get your money out if you needed it, etc.

One of the youngest spoke up and said he was going to participate. His dad had talked him into it so he could get the company match. I thought, good, at least one of them 'gets it'!

Then he went on to say his dad told him it was a savings account so he could withdraw it after five years (vesting?) and use the company's money to help him buy a new truck.

I guess for those of us that have been around long enough, we have similar stories... Me too!

My FIL, who worked for the same mega corp as I did, told me very early on, to put the max amount in the company's 401k plan and not to touch it.... It was a 100% match for the first 6% of my salary. He really didn't need to tell me since I had already signed up (although I never told him that I was already in the plan. Anyway, money was a little tight for a few years but after a while I never missed the deductions. Now I'm retired and still haven't really touched it.

Well he told me to never touch it!


Honestly, it's been the best financial investment I've ever made... By far!

 

[Gumby]

I cringe when I read about people who won't even put enough in to get the company match. It's free money! In all my years of working, I never had a 401k company match, but I still maxed out my contributions. It kills me to think of how much more money I would have now if I had had a match. And these guys are not taking it.

 

[Car-Guy]

I cringe when I read about people who won't even put enough in to get the company match. It's free money!

Some financial things may be debatable in many cases... But not that one from my POV. Even if money is tight at first, suck it up!

 

[braumeister]

When I got my first raise, he recommended putting half into the 401k, and to keep doing this until I was investing at least 15%, plus the company match.

Similar story:
While I was in the Air Force, I naturally had many friends who were pilots. Most just treated their flight pay the same as their basic pay, and they had nice cars, boats, etc.

But one friend told me that when he graduated from flight school he realized that any unforeseen physical problem could knock him off flying status at a moment's notice, so it was a gift. He put 100% of his flight pay into a separate account and never touched it -- that was his emergency fund.

Not being a pilot, that wasn't an option for me, but I did the next best thing by separating out half of every pay raise. Over the years, little things like that can sure add up!