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How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 08:00 PM   #1
 
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How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

actually worse than the viruses? - I know I do. With all of the updates and conflicts with other apps, I'd rather run with no virus protection. If I get a virus, just format the disk and restore my apps and data.

I have had more problems in the last couple years with virus protection software than all of the viruses combined!
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 08:12 PM   #2
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I absolutely love McAffie. Never had a problem. I had nothing but problems with Norton. Norton is up there on my list of garbage, side by side with Internet Exploder Explorer.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 08:46 PM   #3
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I went for years without a virus scanner and had no problems because I know how they get in there. I have McAfee now because work provides it free and requires it for VPN access...not that they could tell if I didn't have it, but I figured since I administer the PCs I may as well run it at home and see what problems I stumble across.

If you don't have kids or other people in your house who download and install carelessly then you can probably get by without a scanner. I disabled images and opening attachements in my email and avoided IE unless absolutely necessary and for a trusted site. (Didn't use OE, either.)

McAfee hasn't been much of a problem for me, but then again I've been using it ans supporting it for years and a failed update is something I can fix in my sleep. I haven't used Norton antivirus (or other Norton/Symmantec products in years) but have been exposed to it a few times and I really don't like it or the extra crap it installs (LiveUpdate especially). McAfee is a bit of a pain when browsing files or opening zips as it decides to scan every huge zip file I display in the explorer window...I frequently disable it when I'm working around big files.

One of McAfee 8 or the MS spyware scanner has done wonders at work preventing spyware. Spyware/adware was taking up most of my time at work for a while, but after McAfee 8 was deployed I quit getting spyware calls. I think that MS spyware scanner installed itself with Windows Updates around the same time, so I'm not sure which one to give credit to. Actually WinXP SP2 was around the same time, but I still have many Win2k machines which have also quit being a problem.

You think a virus scaner slows down your PC? At work people who come from a $400 new, pristine Dell complain about their 2-year old work PC with McAfee, ePolicy Orchestrater (for managing McAfee and updates), 2 remote control services and 2 software installation/inventory managers that run continuously. I'm sure there's other stuff I forgot...then half our apps load Java. And many of the PCs are shared by a dozen or more users. People ask me all the time why the PCs aren't faster and why can't the company get a decent PC when they just bought a super-PC for $400.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 08:47 PM   #4
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
actually worse than the viruses? - I know I do. With all of the updates and conflicts with other apps, I'd rather run with no virus protection. If I get a virus, just format the disk and restore my apps and data.

I have had more problems in the last couple years with virus protection software than all of the viruses combined!
That said, do you run anything on your computer? Like financials, visa card info, social security info? I'm apprehensive of the identity thieves and I like the convenience of the net. Just ordered the Billy and Alaisha CD this afternoon, using my card. Would not have done it without some protection. I know that protection is limited, but some (I think) is better than none.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 08:53 PM   #5
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I don't use Windows so I don't use a virus scanning program. I have both hardware (firmware) and software firewalls, though.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 09:26 PM   #6
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I use an anti virus, firewall, and several anti spy programs.* I haven't noticed any real problems.* Maybe a different anti virus program might work better for you?
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 09:39 PM   #7
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I've never used virus protection, and I've never had a virus. I do a scan every once in while with ad-aware, but that's about it. There are basically three ways for you to become infected:

1) Download a virus or run some unknown email attachment. Not something I'd do.

2) Read email or visit a website that exploits some microsoft bug. I don't use an HTML mail reader, I apply security patches often, and I only surf "safe" porn sites.

3) Get hacked. My internal network is NAT'd, which is enough of a firewall for me.

Yeah, I'm somewhat vulnerable, but I'm also vulnerable to identity theft due to my credit card use. Convenience and performance trumps paranoia.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-03-2005, 09:59 PM   #8
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I use Symantec (Norton). I have Symantec do a nightly scan of my drive. It also checks for the latest virus definitions and updates. I never had any problem with it.
On rare occasions the AV software has detected infected files and quarantined them.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 01:23 AM   #9
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
Convenience and performance trumps paranoia.
Yeah, but they're not as much fun as paranoia.

Seriously, how do you know that you've never had a virus, if you've never scanned for viruses? Some viruses don't mess up your computer. They just sit there quietly sending all the pictures you have of bunnies with pancakes on their heads to the Russian mafia. Some viruses will even helpfully eliminate other viruses that mess up your computer, so you don't have any reason to think that something is wrong.

They're getting quite sophisticated. Its not like the old days.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 01:51 AM   #10
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Seriously, how do you know that you've never had a virus, if you've never scanned for viruses? Some viruses don't mess up your computer. They just sit there quietly sending all the pictures you have of bunnies with pancakes on their heads to the Russian mafia. Some viruses will even helpfully eliminate other viruses that mess up your computer, so you don't have any reason to think that something is wrong.

They're getting quite sophisticated. Its not like the old days.
A serious computer geek can pretty much know where the virus ports of entry are and generally know if they are safe or not. There's also no one who'll shed a tear if we did catch a virus and be unable to restore things to how they were. So far it hasn't been a problem for me. I gave up sex, drugs and rock'n'roll to be this good. :

On a different note I forgot to mention that the virus scanner has flagged several of my utility files...network scanners, remote control software, etc. since the examples I had were used in some viruses. It's really annoying when my virus scanner deletes my network scanner.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 02:30 AM   #11
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
They're getting quite sophisticated.* Its not like the old days.
That's true. In the old days, I used to be able to assure the gal in accounting that there was no way to get a virus by simply reading email. But Microsoft changed that.

In any case, I know that my system is vulnerable. But that's true even when running virus scanners. Black hats exploit holes faster than white hats can detect or prevent the exploits.

I feel as safe as I do inside my own house with the doors closed, but unlocked. When you're running a virus scanner, you might be a notch safer than me -- at home with your doors locked. Both of us are hosed if somebody drives a tank through the front door, but that's just not something that keeps me up at night.

Seriously nefarious criminals are going to follow the money. You should be more concerned about whether Amazon encrypts your credit card info in their database than whether somebody has installed a key logger on your home computer.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 05:19 AM   #12
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
A serious computer geek can pretty much know where the virus ports of entry are and generally know if they are safe or not.
I let Symantec and CastleCops ping my ports to see if they were safe. Both said OK. That's all I know about ports.

Quote:
Seriously nefarious criminals are going to follow the money. You should be more concerned about whether Amazon encrypts your credit card info in their database than whether somebody has installed a key logger on your home computer.
That's true. The bad guys will spend more time going after the billions in major companies than they will going after small fries like us. I guess that I just feel better with my doors locked. Each to his own.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 06:51 AM   #13
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

got kids?

got viruses!


we use zonealarm, norton, ms antispyware, spybot, hijackthis, etc. Never have a problem with parental or work computer. Kid's computer, with same software tools, gets malware about once a month.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 11:02 AM   #14
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I run anti-virus, 3 anti-spyware programs, pop-up blocker, NAT my IP with a router, and I've done some manual hacking/chopping on my system for some added security. I also peruse astalavista.net (com?) from time to time and have them "hit" my machine to see how secure I am. I've never had a performance issue (well, you'd have to ask DW to be sure .... ). But the caveat is I'm in the computer security business, so it interests me anyway.

There is only one way to be absolutely sure you are safe from what comes over your internet line....scissors! But there are so many machines out there running Windows 98 with no patches and left on all the time with a high speed internet connection that I'm not worth the trouble to most black hats....knock on wood.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 11:47 AM   #15
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
I've never used virus protection, and I've never had a virus. I do a scan every once in while with ad-aware, but that's about it. There are basically three ways for you to become infected:

1) Download a virus or run some unknown email attachment. Not something I'd do.

2) Read email or visit a website that exploits some microsoft bug. I don't use an HTML mail reader, I apply security patches often, and I only surf "safe" porn sites.

3) Get hacked. My internal network is NAT'd, which is enough of a firewall for me.
I agree. Hardware firewall + zonealarm is enough for me. I am also a life-long
programmer. If I suspect anything, or the system slows down for any reason,
I just revert the system back to brand new and reload the apps I have added
(I always save the installation exe's), which I have done a couple of times.

Anti-virus is mainly for systems used by the careless or inexperienced, or for
any shared system.
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 12:25 PM   #16
 
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I agree that anti-virus apps are possibly worse that viruses, but I'm not willing to go bare. I get enough of my customers writing and saying "My system was hit by a virus and I needed to reformat, so can you send me my registration code again?" to know that viruses happen.

Over the years I've used the following bloated invasive programs, all of which caused more harm than good:

Norton
McAfee
PC-cillon
Panda Antivirus

I currently use AVG (grisoft.com), which has been quite painless. Of all these apps I've never found one that will do what I want, namely:

If a file has a virus, just delete it.

All of them insist on putting it in a vault, or making it unusable, or healing it, etc.

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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 01:01 PM   #17
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
I currently use AVG (grisoft.com), which has been quite painless. Of all these apps I've never found one that will do what I want, namely:

If a file has a virus, just delete it.

All of them insist on putting it in a vault, or making it unusable, or healing it, etc.
McAfee can be told to auto-delete what it detects both in the on-access and on-demand scans. It's not an obvious setting, though...console -> on-access scan properties -> default processes icon -> actions tab. I wouldn't recommend the delete setting for the average user because I've seen business documents infected with macro viruses, and in most cases you'd rather clean a business document. (I know T-Al is not an average user.)

-----

To all: By the way, I don't mean to say non-gurus should learn their computers as well as a guru does. And I have my preferences but don't pretend they're the best for others.

If McAfee weren't licensed for employee home use by my company I'd probably have the free version of AVG handy.

I administer PCs for a few hundred people, and having the virus scanner on their PCs has saved me LOTS of trouble. For the past several virus reports I responded to, the scanner had stopped the virus before it was written to disk, so the virus never got to do anything. It's been at least 3 years since I've had to clean up after a virus. (By the way, many users try to disable the virus scanner, but our current McAfee/ePO deployment sneaks in and scans anyway, so they haven't been able to actually disable scanning for about 3 years.)
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 01:29 PM   #18
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

I use a hardware firewall (with NAT) plus ZoneAlarm Suite and Counterspy. If your PC starts really slowing down, one thing to check is the hard drive transfer mode.

See Control Panel + Device Manager + IDE Controller + Advanced Settings + Transfer Mode

Windows will automatically switch it from DMA to the MUCH slower PIO if there are any HD faults.

This happened to me and had the appearance of the PC just slowing down everything. Heck, I was even thinking of getting a new computer before I found this little gem.

No warranties, no tech support, just a comment for the PC literate
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 02:08 PM   #19
 
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Thanks, Socks.

My secondary IDE Channel is set to PIO, but I don't know what that channel is controlling.

Found this interesting article.

In default WIndows 2000 configuration, transfer mode for device 0 on secondary IDE channel is set to "PIO Only". This causes IDE device attached to that channel to operate in PIO mode even if the device supports DMA. This results in additional load on central processor (CPU) and also in possible degraded perfomance of disk I/O operations.

I guess I'll change this -- hope it won't break anything.

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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....
Old 10-04-2005, 03:13 PM   #20
 
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Re: How many of you techies believe that Virus Protection Software.....

Quote:
I administer PCs for a few hundred people, and having the virus scanner on their PCs has saved me LOTS of trouble.
I agree for people that can't fix the jams that viruses cause, a scanner is a good idea.

However, I have killed more time trying to figure out why my system was not working because of virus preventers than all of the viruses that I've had. And I have had a few viruses over the years, and corrected them. Usually, I have known where I got the virus, and opened the attachment anyway, because I had some time on my hands and was not afraid to rebuild my system.
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