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Old 06-03-2014, 07:42 PM   #41
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I am wondering, didn't someone sit down with Win 8 before it was released and say, "This sucks! Don't release it." Megacorp mentality lends itself to the emperor has a robe, when he is naked!
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:16 AM   #42
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I think that misses the point, though, Jim: The reality is that many people sat down "with Win 8" before it was released. Given what I know about the quality of people and processes at Microsoft, I think it is foolish to assume that what was released was anything other than as close as possible to the best approach forward for the company.

Understand that the failure of the Metro interface doesn't mean it was a mistake - it means that there may not be a viable path forward for Microsoft that achieves the objectives of the company - no way forward that avoids the degradation in relevance and therefore revenues that Windows 8 was intended to address. Not every problem has a solution. The reality is that computing simply may be drifting towards a place where Microsoft won't matter as much as they once did. What would have been a mistake is just rolling over, taking that as inevitable, without making the effort to try to do something different.

Alternatively, we have to remember that business is often a matter of luck. In a different universe, Windows 8 would have been as well-received as Windows 3.1. It had the qualities necessary for that. Things just didn't break that way, this time.

Far far too often we humans try to draw conclusions from the results, instead of drawing conclusions from the comparison of the results against the results of the alternatives - not to mention drawing those conclusions based on criteria of our own making instead of abiding by the objectives set by the people for the benefit of whom the decisions are being made (i.e., the shareholders - NOT the customers).

Taken from the perspective of what's best for Microsoft, making Windows 8 just an update of Windows 7 would have been unacceptable bordering on irresponsible.
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:20 AM   #43
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I think that misses the point, though, Jim: The reality is that many people sat down "with Win 8" before it was released. Given what I know about the quality of people and processes at Microsoft, I think it is foolish to assume that what was released was anything other than as close as possible to the best approach forward for the company. ....
That has to be one of the most naive things I've ever read! Either that, or you are Steve Balmer in real life (which still makes it naive, but would explain it)

Large (and small) companies make drastic mistakes. They misjudge their users. And they pay the price, as do their shareholders. But you are telling us that MS is incapable of making a mistake? Laughable/sad.

I guess the Zune was a wonderfully well thought out product that the world just didn't appreciate? Silly world, just 'squirt' 'em.


Quote:
Understand that the failure of the Metro interface doesn't mean it was a mistake - it means that there may not be a viable path forward for Microsoft that achieves the objectives of the company - no way forward that avoids the degradation in relevance and therefore revenues that Windows 8 was intended to address. ....

Producing an interface that is roundly disliked does not sound like a viable path forward. I think they made a mistake that many companies do - they change for the sake of change, rather than improving upon the old, or (horrors, this would take real work and creativity) produce something new that people embrace, rather than be told they are 'resistant to change'.

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In a different universe, Windows 8 would have been as well-received as Windows 3.1. It had the qualities necessary for that. Things just didn't break that way, this time.
Is that alternate universe named Htrae? Where good is bad and bad is good? Maybe then, but here on planet Earth, good is good and bad is bad, and the majority of users have made it pretty clear what they think of metro/tiles/whatever.

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Far far too often we humans try to draw conclusions from the results, ...
Those pesky shareholders are looking for... results. And I guess I should put up with any deficiencies in any product I buy without complaining, and just say "Well, I'm sure they had good intentions."?

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Taken from the perspective of what's best for Microsoft, making Windows 8 just an update of Windows 7 would have been unacceptable bordering on irresponsible.
Or, as I said before, improve upon the stuff that works and find new ways of doing thing that people like. Not change for the sake of change.

It seems pretty obvious that Metro was a misguided approach to merging the tablet/phone world with the desktop. Tablets/phones are 'cool', so let's make the desktop 'cool'! But they let 'cool' get in the way with what works on a large monitor. Linux/Ubuntu made the same mistake going to the Unity interface, but it was easy for me to choose an alternate desktop interface (Xubuntu), which has all the old menu features that just seem to work on a desktop, and don't need to be changed to look like a phone.


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Old 06-04-2014, 05:34 PM   #44
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I wonder if anyone, even those who say they have no problem with Windows 8 and adapted to it in half an hour, really uses the Tileworld interface or just goes straight to the classic desktop?
That's exactly what I did with a new laptop with 8.1 on it - "Great - there's a tile labeled 'desktop'! Now I can actually do something instead of wasting time figuring out what these tiles things do, that I don't give a whit about."

Even better, Win 8.1 eventually figures out that you want to boot to the desktop so that's where it boots to. Works for me.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:59 PM   #45
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I thought MS's goal was to unify desktop/laptop/tablet/smartphone interfaces. Windows 8 was a step towards that. We've all seen that desktop sales have been declining, laptop sales are declining, and tablets and smartphone sales are growing. If MS wants to avoid serving only the desktop/laptop niche they need to move on. I assume Metro would not be too bad on a touch screen tablet. And so desktops get stuck with something a little strange.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:24 PM   #46
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Real simple.

A new operating system should be easy to use. Not require a message board. Nor involve a complicated learning curve.

Steve Balmer was removed. He screwed up big time.

8.0 a disaster.

I ended up purchasing a new laptop, with windows 7.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:48 PM   #47
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I thought MS's goal was to unify desktop/laptop/tablet/smartphone interfaces. Windows 8 was a step towards that. We've all seen that desktop sales have been declining, laptop sales are declining, and tablets and smartphone sales are growing. If MS wants to avoid serving only the desktop/laptop niche they need to move on. I assume Metro would not be too bad on a touch screen tablet. And so desktops get stuck with something a little strange.
Right, but it doesn't mean they need to take one tool for everything and force it down people's throats. You don't use the same size brush to paint a barn as you do to paint portrait.

I feel that Ubuntu/Linux should have simply offered a choice at login/start-up - do you want the tablet-style interface, or the traditional desktop? It looks like W8.1 has kinda done this, but it sounds like the desktop really is a 'second class citizen'.

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Real simple.

A new operating system should be easy to use. Not require a message board. Nor involve a complicated learning curve.

...
Absolutely. In this day and age, new things should be easy to learn, the advantages should be immediately obvious. Sure, some things might take a little adjustment or a bit of a learning curve, but those should have ample rewards, not just change for change's sake. And there should be enough immediate positives to make you want to learn the newer things that require a bit more effort.

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Old 06-04-2014, 08:56 PM   #48
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That's exactly what I did with a new laptop with 8.1 on it - "Great - there's a tile labeled 'desktop'! Now I can actually do something instead of wasting time figuring out what these tiles things do, that I don't give a whit about."

Even better, Win 8.1 eventually figures out that you want to boot to the desktop so that's where it boots to. Works for me.
Actually that is windows 8.1 update 1. It asks itself does this computer have a touch screen interface, if not it boots to the desktop, if it does it boots to the metro interface. 8.1 just allows you to specify which to boot to in control panel.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:18 AM   #49
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That has to be one of the most naive things I've ever read!
Except it isn't, and your ridiculously rude, self ratifying, and childish reply deserves no further consideration.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:14 AM   #50
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Come'on folks. We can all disagree without being disagreeable. Let's keep it friendly, and if anyone can't, there's always the ignore function.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:59 AM   #51
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I used Linux since maybe the mid-90s (Slackware?). We could tell which way things were going at the uni. I already was versed in Unix during college, so it was a snap.

Now I'm banished to Windows. But mainly on iOS
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:05 AM   #52
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I've had Windows 8 for over a year and I still hate it. I don't swear nearly as much when I'm on the computer as I initially did, but I still think the developers were smoking crack.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:33 AM   #53
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I used Linux since maybe the mid-90s (Slackware?). We could tell which way things were going at the uni. I already was versed in Unix during college, so it was a snap.

Now I'm banished to Windows. But mainly on iOS
Slackware was one of the original distributions of linux. It's still going. I liked the the installation, it was easy to pick what packages to install and build your own system from it.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:40 AM   #54
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Slackware was one of the original distributions of linux. It's still going. I liked the the installation, it was easy to pick what packages to install and build your own system from it.

I needed TeX. Fast (i'd made a big mistake on a presentation). I couldn't believe I didn't need to go into work to fix it!
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:53 AM   #55
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I needed TeX. Fast (i'd made a big mistake on a presentation). I couldn't believe I didn't need to go into work to fix it!
If you have a computer that does virtualization in the cpu install virtualbox, and then install your favorite version of linux (relatively modern) as a guest os. Or do things the other way around wipe windows (save your data), install virtual box and run your favorite version of windows as a guest. You can thus have the best of both worlds.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:57 AM   #56
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Thank you. I don't want Windows. It makes me want to kill myself!
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:48 PM   #57
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Thank you. I don't want Windows. It makes me want to kill myself!
Oh please don't do that! No operating system is worth getting all stressed out. Better to just avoid it completely.
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Old 06-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #58
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Here's a question. Maybe it's been talked about before I haven't found it.

Since Windows has so many non-fans and nobody really, actually likes it, they just use it because "everybody else does", and because lots of you are engineer/tech types.....

...does anybody here engage the computing world via Linux? Maybe saving Windows for a few minor chores Linux doesn't handle?
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Old 06-05-2014, 04:52 PM   #59
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Here's a question. Maybe it's been talked about before I haven't found it.

Since Windows has so many non-fans and nobody really, actually likes it, they just use it because "everybody else does", and because lots of you are engineer/tech types.....

...does anybody here engage the computing world via Linux? Maybe saving Windows for a few minor chores Linux doesn't handle?
Some of the recent posts had me wondering the same thing. So I started a new thread on the subject...

Linux OS Users - Tell your story here


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Old 06-05-2014, 04:55 PM   #60
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My entire working life was Unix (SunOS), then IRIX, then Linux. But we had to use Windows for office-like work and presentations. I think I lost a year waiting for it to boot..
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