Scaring people into working till they drop?

[splitwdw]

Unfortunately, my sister is in a similar situation. She has never held a job for very long, and has no money saved at 50 years old, and has never earned enough to pay her bills. My parents still pay her expenses. And I'm afraid that some day I'm going to be faced with the decision of whether to take over for my parents when they are no longer around. I really don't want to, but I have a feeling it's going to be a decision I have to face whether I like it or not.

Ready, My BIL is sort of like your sister but he has a good paying job, doesn't manage his money well and his parents help bail him out constantly. I thought maybe my husband would take over the bail out job once his parents were gone but he said he would not.

Only definitions I can find for FIFY is "fit in (a) few years or fixed it for you". I checked the acronym list on the FAQ and can't find it. So anyone have a translation?

 

[dontworry]

Well, I'm certainly not planning on sending her enough to live in luxury.



She has a college degree, but can't seem to hold a job. She suffers from depression, anxiety, blah blah blah. And she can't have a job in retail because she can't stand on her feet all day, or work in a noisy environment. So the bandwidth of jobs that are suitable to her is very narrow, and when she gets one, she usually gets fired within a few weeks.



She is setting herself up for a very meager existence. I may not let her live on the streets, but beyond finding a room to rent, and a little food money, I'm not willing to provide anything further. It's very disturbing to watch.

Wonder if she could possibly be eligible for social security disability? If her depression and anxiety issues are that severe, she might be.

I also have a brother who I worry about. He was injured on the job (construction). I am pretty sure my parents are supporting him fully right now. I wish he would look into SSD. I know that oftentimes you have to apply more than once and it isn't easy to prove disability. I also think he may have some severe depression issues that are not being addressed. He absolutely has no respect for me so I can't talk to him about any of this stuff. I love him and would do whatever I could to help him if he'd let me. Thankfully my parents are OK financially and can help him ( for now).

 

[Walt34]

I fully understand and have seen way too many people like her. We have one in the family....

I get the sense that almost everyone has "one in the family". We do too, one SIL has been on SSDI for decades and has a tenuous grip on reality. This is the one that even in HS when DW could buy herself a $5 blouse with baby-sitting money she'd get mad at DW because she couldn't have a new blouse too.

She just doesn't make the connection between working, money, and having options. I suspect in her mind nice homes, cars, etc. just fall from the sky to a few lucky people.

 

[travelover]

I've got an in-law living on the edge, too. My conclusion is that mental health is a continuum ranging from slightly eccentric to stark raving mad. It seems that a surprisingly large portion of the population lives somewhere in the middle, hanging on by their finger nails. Whether you label them as mentally ill or just bad, lazy people, there seems to be no real solution.

 

[Ready]

Well, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one. Thanks to everyone who shared their stories.

I've been fighting with my sister for the past couple of weeks now, so it's been on my mind. She lives rent free in my 88 year old mother's home, and my mother pays all the bills. My mom recently stopped driving and has no way to go shopping for food any more. My sister sent me an email asking me to send money to pay for a driver to take mom around to the grocery stores every week. I told my sister that as long as she is not working and has nothing else to do, there is no reason she can't take my mom shopping. Her argument is that mom likes to go shopping too much and she doesn't want to have to go shopping every day.

What else does this woman have to do all day? Maybe it's just me, but it seems incredibly nervy to ask me to pay for a driver for my mom when my sister lives there full time and mom pays all the bills. My sister has a car and drives herself to the pool every day to go swimming. But somehow driving to the grocery store seems to elude her.

We've discussed trying to get her on disability, but concluded it will never happen. There is really nothing wrong with her. Lots of depressed people go to work and earn a living. And she has no physical handicaps. I suggested she try to get a job at Starbucks, but she says she can't stand on her feet all day and doesn't like noisy environments. Something tells me that the disability board is not going to be very enthusiastic about signing her up. I'm sure there are people in far worse shape than her who still find a way to earn a living.

She has a terrible attitude, and acts like the world owes her for just existing. I've told my mom the old saying "Necessity is the mother of invention". If she kicked my sister out, I suspect she would eventually figure out how to support herself. But at 50 years old, I wonder how capable a person is of changing after behaving this way their entire life.

 

[aja8888]

One of my best friends, who is mid-50's, has a divorced wife that he supports, yes, true. Bought her a small condo, pays her bills, she has no job. Plus, one of their two daughters still lives at home and can't seem to find a job. In Houston, employers are advertising for workers on freeway billboards.

My business partner has a SIL (mid-50's) divorced, with three kids, living with Mom, plus she doesn't work (can't find a job that pays enough?). That's got to be a fun arrangement.

There are lots of people who are in this boat.

 

[H2ODude]

One memorable statement from the video was something like "I had jobs but no career." I'd be willing to bet that even the lower net worth/income folks here on this board, with a mindset to financial independence, focused on having a career and not just just bopping job to job. And that's not meant to be "classist" because you can have a career in public service or other relatively stable workplaces just as in "professions." I will say that the breadth of opportunity for careers is much narrower now than several decades ago. Trying to reinvent yourself in your fifties to develop a career that will build retirement assets or pension would be pretty tough. Borrowing $200,000 to do social work at 60? This is just insane and no one should have LOANED that money. It makes me believe that student debt bubble is approaching the same critical mass as housing in 2007. What were those mortgages called? Liar loans? Were they any more sound than a student loan to a 60 yo for $200k to go into social work?

I do feel sorry for the many people in the position depicted in this clip. However, for many it was decisions made by themselves. However, when I make statements like that I'm reminded that there are a lot of folks who were doing the right things more or less and then got whacked in the recession, and recovering in your fifties is pretty damn tough.

 

[Chuckanut]

My business partner has a SIL (mid-50's) divorced, with three kids, living with Mom, plus she doesn't work (can't find a job that pays enough?). That's got to be a fun arrangement.

Most likely day care expenses eat up what ever money she would make. (Not that this absolves her from responsibility for her situation. )This is not unusual. I have often thought that some type of state subsized daycare would be a net gain for society.

 

[Gumby]

Only definitions I can find for FIFY is "fit in (a) few years or fixed it for you". I checked the acronym list on the FAQ and can't find it. So anyone have a translation?

Around here, people usually use FIFY to mean "fixed it for you" when they change someone's words to make their point.

 

[HFWR]

Around here, people usually use FIFY to mean "fixed it for you" when they change someone's words to make their point.

Yeah, that.

 

[Corporateburnout]

My 54 year old sister who is single has a job that pays 60K but has only managed to save 30K in her 401K. She has 25K in student loans so her net worth is 5K. After repeated counseling from her siblings she is now trying to accelerate payments on her student loans and increase her 401K contributions to 10%.

Meanwhile I have another sister who retired 4 years ago at the age of 60 with a paid off condo and close to a million dollars in investments.

We are hopeful that the former sister saves 200K by the age of 65 to supplement her SS. Somehow I have a feeling that old habits are hard to break...

 

[Walt34]

I've got an in-law living on the edge, too. My conclusion is that mental health is a continuum ranging from slightly eccentric to stark raving mad. It seems that a surprisingly large portion of the population lives somewhere in the middle, hanging on by their finger nails. Whether you label them as mentally ill or just bad, lazy people, there seems to be no real solution.

It helps to keep in mind this thread about the personality types of most on this board. Overwhelmingly they are *NTJ, *STJ or INTP and even combined this is a very small percentage of the total population.

Little wonder then that we're right and the rest of the world is wrong.

 

[Cassie]

It helps to keep in mind this thread about the personality types of most on this board. Overwhelmingly they are *NTJ, *STJ or INTP and even combined this is a very small percentage of the total population.

Little wonder then that we're right and the rest of the world is wrong.

Thanks, for the link...haven't done this in years...I'm ISTJ now that I'm retired I was different before, the 1st two letters years ago were IN.

 

[Walt34]

Depending on the day, the mood I'm in, which web site it is, and perhaps the phases of the moon I'm either ISTJ or INTJ.

It doesn't really mean anything, the value of the MB profile is highly debatable in many quarters, but it is entertaining.

 

[heeyy_joe]

In related news, this poor lady was always the first out of the monopoly game...


A Forest Gump quote comes to mind.

 

[scrabbler1]

Reading this thread reminded me of some coworkers and former coworkers I left behind when I ERed in 2008. One retired in 2003 a few months shy of turning 61. He died 6 years later at age 66. Another retired in 2007 at age 62. She died in early 2013 at age 67. I am glad they both enjoyed 5 or 6 years of retirement instead of working the whole time.

A man replaced the woman I mentioned above, transferring in from another area while I was still working there. He died suddenly in the lobby of the office building in 2010, a week before his 55th birthday. I do not know if he had planned an early retirement. He worked until he dropped, sadly.

 

[Ready]

Reading this thread reminded me of some coworkers and former coworkers I left behind when I ERed in 2008. One retired in 2003 a few months shy of turning 61. He died 6 years later at age 66. Another retired in 2007 at age 62. She died in early 2013 at age 67. I am glad they both enjoyed 5 or 6 years of retirement instead of working the whole time.

A man replaced the woman I mentioned above, transferring in from another area while I was still working there. He died suddenly in the lobby of the office building in 2010, a week before his 55th birthday. I do not know if he had planned an early retirement. He worked until he dropped, sadly.

My goodness, that sounds like a really unlucky place to work. No wonder you couldn't wait to get out!

 

[timo2]

Reading this thread reminded me of some coworkers and former coworkers I left behind when I ERed in 2008. One retired in 2003 a few months shy of turning 61. He died 6 years later at age 66. Another retired in 2007 at age 62. She died in early 2013 at age 67. I am glad they both enjoyed 5 or 6 years of retirement instead of working the whole time.

A man replaced the woman I mentioned above, transferring in from another area while I was still working there. He died suddenly in the lobby of the office building in 2010, a week before his 55th birthday. I do not know if he had planned an early retirement. He worked until he dropped, sadly.

Maybe they had medical issues. Illness that forces a retirement is fairly common, and the illness takes its toll.

 

[scrabbler1]

With the 2003 retiree, he had some health issues in the 1990s but he died of other health issues. With the woman, she developed serious health issues in 2010 but I do not know for sure if those caused her death (probably did). With the second man who died at the office, I did not know him well enough but he was rather overweight (he died of a heart attack).

 

[Turboslacker]

It's not hard to find people out there who make really bad decisions, as the woman who financed a $200K education at 60 years old did.

Unfortunately, my sister is in a similar situation. She has never held a job for very long, and has no money saved at 50 years old, and has never earned enough to pay her bills. My parents still pay her expenses. And I'm afraid that some day I'm going to be faced with the decision of whether to take over for my parents when they are no longer around. I really don't want to, but I have a feeling it's going to be a decision I have to face whether I like it or not.

This is exactly the problem that every one of us will be dealing with - on a National scale. Just because YOU have saved enough for comfortable retirement won't make you immune to this national crisis.

We as a Society will not tolerate old folks not having the basics for housing, food and medicine. You will become a provider for many unprepared takers ... one way or another, even kicking and screaming.

Sorry but that's how I see the future playing out.

 

[razztazz]

This is exactly the problem that every one of us will be dealing with - on a National scale. Just because YOU have saved enough for comfortable retirement won't make you immune to this national crisis.

As A Nation it will be a lot easier to afford this crap on an across-the-board scale than it will be for me to prop up some derelict relatives directly. I can kick and scream a little or a lot. Which shall it be... hmmm....? I'll practice some self defence.

Ya know the old saying when referring to men, women, children, bosses, workers, lawyers et al depending on the situation? Ya' can't live with 'em and ya can't shoot 'em! It's true. So let's do this as easily as possible. I am not carrying a cross for any particular economic nostrum. I am a realist. A few bucks from everybody (who has bucks) won't hurt. Letting these people maraud across the landscape will break all but the luckiest and wealthiest.

 

[timo2]

We as a Society will not tolerate old folks not having the basics for housing, food and medicine. You will become a provider for many unprepared takers ... one way or another, even kicking and screaming.

That is what Social Security and medicare were intended to do. Keep those fully funded and you won't have be so alarmed about it.

 

[tangomonster]

Never Retiring?

What I'm not getting is how all these people my age never thought to save for retirement. Also not understanding how people in their 50's, 60's, and 70's are able to find and maintain employment----I had the savvy to save and invest and my energy level at 60 has never been better...but that's because of early retirement and what it's enabled me to do mental and physical-health-wise. How are all these people able to cope with the demands of working and the stress of limited finances?

And the woman who is now studying social work so she can help counsel her peers---how in the world would she make a decision to add to her student debt from a previous master's degree in broadcast management that it seems she never used? $200,000 worth of student debt at age 60 and on a social worker's salary...if she is lucky enough to even get a job as a brand-new social worker in her 60's?

For our younger folks reading this, please learn from these people who thought aging and retirement wouldn't happen to them or weren't worth delaying gratification for.....

 

[ggbutcher]

I grew up in a house where saving was a central tenet. My dad, a banker, was of the position that saving any amount is better than not saving at all, and the principal is of first importance, and the rate of return secondary. Really, can't have the second with out the first. I think sometimes the degree of attention on rate of return and inflation makes some folk just glaze over, and miss the central tenet.

We're in the middle of a societal shift from a high degree of expected protection in the matters of life from our employers, to less. The gov't is struggling with how much of the protection to take up, witness the angst over ACA and SS solvency. One would argue that essentially, a US citizen who worked at a job that paid into SS and Medicare is insured against destitution and (minor) disease in retirement, given the current program. I lean conservative, but I don't think that's such a bad concept.

I've sat down with my kid and had the "you can't do retirement like I am" conversation. I think he gets it; he's matching his employer's 401k at the age of 22. More parents need to have that conversation, maybe, but not that many may understand the need.

My main worry is for the folks who worked jobs that abrogate SSA/Medicare for some other plan, usually folks who work for state and local governments. They may be exposed to a double whammy: a badly managed pension program, and no insurance to mitigate it.

 

[Letj]

I've got an in-law living on the edge, too. My conclusion is that mental health is a continuum ranging from slightly eccentric to stark raving mad. It seems that a surprisingly large portion of the population lives somewhere in the middle, hanging on by their finger nails. Whether you label them as mentally ill or just bad, lazy people, there seems to be no real solution.

Agree. A lot of people have undiagnosed mental illness arising often from a rough childhood. I know that many people have had difficult childhoods and overcame but for others it's tough. I thank my luck stars that I had good role models as a child. They valued education, hard work and dignity. They taught me that no matter how poor you are, you must have dignity.