Scaring people into working till they drop?

[aja8888]

I grew up poor, with alcoholic parents, but at least Dad worked and provided, although it was a meager existence. I saw all that poverty when I was 17 and decided to leave home and start out on my own. Dad passed soon after I graduated college with help from the G.I. Bill. Mom had to move in with sis in a house trailer in North Carolina. I never expected anyone to help me, nor did my sisters.

What's going on today is there seems to be the mindset that the government will "take care of you if you can't do it yourself". Well, hello folks, that ain't gonna happen when the millions of Boomers hit their 60's and can't pay their power bill.

Even the ACA is in for a surprise soon. All these policies with $6K out of pocket won't work for a lot of folks who signed on. Wait until the screaming starts about that.

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

Just another Yahoo filler, slow news day I guess.

Here's another one from Yahoo!

'I’m never going to be able to retire.'

At age 58 and less than a decade away from retirement, Nancie Eichengreen, found herself having to start over from scratch.

It was 2012 and she had been laid off for the second time in 10 years from her job as a legal secretary. She spent a few years collecting unemployment benefits and dipping into her meager 401(k) savings to fill in the gaps.

“It’s kind of scary because I don’t envision a retirement for myself,” Eichengreen told Yahoo Finance. “I’m just going to have to keep working.” ...

Her situation is unfortunate but not unique. Thirty-four percent of workers have nothing set aside for retirement, according to the U.S. Social Security Administration. A study by the National Institute on Retirement Security found 40 percent of workers 55-65 years old do not own assets in a retirement account...

 

[Birdie Num Nums]

...We're in the middle of a societal shift from a high degree of expected protection in the matters of life from our employers, to less....

So true.
There was a time, starting a bit before and during World War II, that employers would finance your health care insurance, as an incentive, and reward you for some 30+ years of work with them with a lifetime pension.

But the times are a changing--especially due to the recent "Great Recession." Employees these days are more and more expected to assume personal responsibility for their health care and retirement expenses.

 

[timo2]

So true.
But the times are a changing--especially due to the recent "Great Recession." Employees these days are more and more expected to assume personal responsibility for their health care and retirement expenses.

So what do you do with people caught in the transition? All transitions leave some people behind. For example, in the early 90's I worked as a mapmaker, and the entire operation was changed from hand work to digital work. We had some people that could not adapt to the new. IMO we can't just leave our fellow citizens out in the cold. (But they are not moving in with me either. ) To keep the peace, our society will have to do something supportive if Social Security and Medicare are not going to be enough.

 

[youbet]

This is exactly the problem that every one of us will be dealing with - on a National scale. Just because YOU have saved enough for comfortable retirement won't make you immune to this national crisis.

We as a Society will not tolerate old folks not having the basics for housing, food and medicine. You will become a provider for many unprepared takers ... one way or another, even kicking and screaming.

Sorry but that's how I see the future playing out.

I have no problem contributing to a prudent safety net to ensure basic living for retirees, even if some percentage of those needing the help could have made better decisions. I built higher taxes into my plan.

Surely you did too?

 

[youbet]

My main worry is for the folks who worked jobs that abrogate SSA/Medicare for some other plan, usually folks who work for state and local governments. They may be exposed to a double whammy: a badly managed pension program, and no insurance to mitigate it.

+1

 

[Turboslacker]

I have no problem contributing to a prudent safety net to ensure basic living for retirees, even if some percentage of those needing the help could have made better decisions. I built higher taxes into my plan.

Surely you did too?

Good for you, but you are in the rare minority. Better double what you plan to pay others through higher taxes or retiree support charities.

This ain't gonna be pretty.

 

[youbet]

Good for you, but you are in the rare minority. Better double what you plan to pay others through higher taxes or retiree support charities.

This ain't gonna be pretty.

If we have to take some means tested SS cuts or face some sensible increases in taxes to keep everyone fed then so be it. Many on this board already plan for these possibilities. If you haven't better go back to the drawing board. ER is about enjoying life not fretting every minor bump in the road.

 

[ziggy29]

Well, as usual with these "many don't have much (or any) personal retirement savings" is that they don't factor in whether or not they have pensions and such. People who are 60, been at the same job for 35+ years and have a pension of 75-90% of their working salary (or more) with a COLA and retiree health coverage waiting for them at the end of the rainbow may not *need* much, if any, personal savings (especially in addition to Social Security). That's not to say they shouldn't be saving -- they should be, rather than assuming these things they've earned will go unchanged and honored for their entire life -- but that makes their situation a LOT less dire and apocalyptic.

 

[2B]

We as a Society will not tolerate old folks not having the basics for housing, food and medicine. You will become a provider for many unprepared takers ... one way or another, even kicking and screaming.

Sorry but that's how I see the future playing out.

I hate to tell you this but I know irresponsible people that retire with just SS. Guess what? They are still irresponsible. If they happen to have equity in a house they get a reverse mortgage. They are eventually broke and in debt. We all see regular stories with "Granny not able to eat and afford her meds." With any luck they have a heart attack and die quickly. In the end, many end up in Medicaid nursing homes.

My in laws blew money like crazy. He was a VP of a significant division of a significant company (not quite S&P500). He made a bundle during his life and had decent pensions. When DW and I took over their finances after my MIL's broken hip and my FIL's Alzheimer's diagnosis, they had an almost zero net worth except for their house. It was build in 1963 and was starting to fall down. Fortunately, they land was in what had become a fashionable area in Houston. That and the pensions allowed us to clear their debts and pay for many years in decent aged care facilities.

 

[2B]

I grew up poor, with alcoholic parents, but at least Dad worked and provided, although it was a meager existence. I saw all that poverty when I was 17 and decided to leave home and start out on my own. Dad passed soon after I graduated college with help from the G.I. Bill. Mom had to move in with sis in a house trailer in North Carolina. I never expected anyone to help me, nor did my sisters.

What's going on today is there seems to be the mindset that the government will "take care of you if you can't do it yourself". Well, hello folks, that ain't gonna happen when the millions of Boomers hit their 60's and can't pay their power bill.

Even the ACA is in for a surprise soon. All these policies with $6K out of pocket won't work for a lot of folks who signed on. Wait until the screaming starts about that.

My family received surplus government food for awhile when I was young (pre food stamps). We got powdered milk, moldy cheese, big tubs of butter and rice with bugs in it. We also got food from a local charity. I went for the good pay of an engineering degree paid for by a combination of work, merit and need based scholarships. I've always been frugal and have a decent, although not outrageous, amount of savings. I do agree that there aren't enough of people like me to give the non-savers the lifestyle they feel they deserve.

 

[jollystomper]

Good for you, but you are in the rare minority. Better double what you plan to pay others through higher taxes or retiree support charities.

This ain't gonna be pretty.

I hate to tell you this but I know irresponsible people that retire with just SS. Guess what? They are still irresponsible. If they happen to have equity in a house they get a reverse mortgage. They are eventually broke and in debt. We all see regular stories with "Granny not able to eat and afford her meds." With any luck they have a heart attack and die quickly. In the end, many end up in Medicaid nursing homes.

Unfortunately I have to agree with both of these. Those of us who have been responsible through what we have saved (regardless of the degree of "planning" or "luck" one attributes to that result) are going to be looked on as being responsible for helping others. In addition, if you look at the large percentage of lottery winners who should be set for life but have lost it all in a few years, some folks are always going to be irresponsible no matter what you give them.

DW and I sadly have more than a few relatives with the attitude of "because you have done well, you need to help us out, and we don't have any responsibility with being disciplined with what you help us out with". Many feel that the majority of those who are FI really "cheated" their way to that position, while they were "honest".

 

[timo2]

DW and I sadly have more than a few relatives with the attitude of "because you have done well, you need to help us out, and we don't have any responsibility with being disciplined with what you help us out with". Many feel that the majority of those who are FI really "cheated" their way to that position, while they were "honest".

another reason to avoid living ostentatiously and also having a domicile that will not hold many additional people. They can pull up an old motor home like in 'Christmas Vacation'.

edit: I recall people living in old RVs already

DW and I have this idea that we would get an old RV and just go from walmart parking lot to walmart parking lot

 

[travelover]

......... Many feel that the majority of those who are FI really "cheated" their way to that position, while they were "honest".

Travelover's Law says that anyone with less money than me is a bum that is simply unwilling to work hard. Anyone with more money than me either stole it or inherited it, as if there is a difference.

 

[powerplay]

DW and I have this idea that we would get an old RV and just go from walmart parking lot to walmart parking lot

If you went for the Costco parking lot you could get 'free food' with all the samples they offer. The food samples could easily offset the annual Costco membership fee. Now I don't know if Costco allows RV overnight parking in their lots or not.

 

[Walt34]

DW and I have this idea that we would get an old RV and just go from walmart parking lot to walmart parking lot

I could do it just for the heck of it. DW would never, ever go for that.

 

[aja8888]

Speaking of free food, I personally have met underfunded retirees and unemployable folks in Sams Club and at local bar happy hours around here getting their complementary mid-day snacks and dinner on a regular basis. I don't know where they sleep, though.

 

[Turboslacker]

Unfortunately I have to agree with both of these. Those of us who have been responsible through what we have saved (regardless of the degree of "planning" or "luck" one attributes to that result) are going to be looked on as being responsible for helping others. In addition, if you look at the large percentage of lottery winners who should be set for life but have lost it all in a few years, some folks are always going to be irresponsible no matter what you give them.

DW and I sadly have more than a few relatives with the attitude of "because you have done well, you need to help us out, and we don't have any responsibility with being disciplined with what you help us out with". Many feel that the majority of those who are FI really "cheated" their way to that position, while they were "honest".

Wow you really are living the impending crisis now.

 

[Turboslacker]

Travelover's Law says that anyone with less money than me is a bum that is simply unwilling to work hard. Anyone with more money than me either stole it or inherited it, as if there is a difference.

They are all jerks...I'm the only sane one. Exactly lol

 

[Turboslacker]

If you went for the Costco parking lot you could get 'free food' with all the samples they offer. The food samples could easily offset the annual Costco membership fee. Now I don't know if Costco allows RV overnight parking in their lots or not.

Hey I actually worked with near retirement engineers who would go to Costco for their weekly Friday lunchtime. The strolled up and down the aisles and eat everything as an appetizer then grab a hot dog and come for $1.50.

Talk about cheap azz millionaires lol. Sorry I meant "frugal" for this Forum membership.

 

[powerplay]

Hey I actually worked with near retirement engineers who would go to Costco for their weekly Friday lunchtime. The strolled up and down the aisles and eat everything as an appetizer then grab a hot dog and come for $1.50.

Talk about cheap azz millionaires lol. Sorry I meant "frugal" for this Forum membership.

Hey it must work pretty well then if they are all millionaires now. What a great LBYM concept. Wonder why they needed the hot dog after all the samples? Maybe save it for dinner.

 

[Cassie]

Thanks for the Costco tip, it's the end on the month & next deposit isn't until Monday. Think I'll head to Costco Friday

 

[Live Free]

This thread is interesting...

The old guy at the beginning of the film laments that he never thought about saving for retirement when he was younger. It should be no surprise that when he's older he lacks savings. What did he expect would happen?

Many posters here talk about having parents that were good savers or taught them the value of regularly saving. Certainly most here have passed on the value of saving, especially for retirement, to our own kids. Maybe others were not so lucky to have that guidance or were not smart enough to figure it out.

Our local public schools recently sent home with my 14 year old a new course requirement for high school graduation - personal finance. It is a one semester coures that is coupled with a semster of economics. The course description includes: practical applications to provide real-world examples of computation. Topics such as buying a car, renting an apartment, managing a budget, taxes, using credit wisely, planning for retirement, understanding investments and insurance.

I think this is a good idea.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Many posters here talk about having parents that were good savers or taught them the value of regularly saving. Certainly most here have passed on the value of saving, especially for retirement, to our own kids. Maybe others were not so lucky to have that guidance or were not smart enough to figure it out.

Our local public schools recently sent home with my 14 year old a new course requirement for high school graduation - personal finance. It is a one semester coures that is coupled with a semster of economics. The course description includes: practical applications to provide real-world examples of computation. Topics such as buying a car, renting an apartment, managing a budget, taxes, using credit wisely, planning for retirement, understanding investments and insurance.

I think this is a good idea.

+1. That is a great idea. I wish schools offered more practical, training for real life classes like that. I think it would help lower the drop out rates, too. A study in Dallas on drop out rates cited one of the factors as "The students found school boring and felt the curriculum did not apply to real life."

 

[Chuckanut]

Here's the ultimate way to scare the workers: