The back nine, Sunday, at The Masters!

[Midpack]

If there is anything better in golf, I can't imagine what it would be. Truly the pinnacle IMO.

 

[Mulligan]

If there is anything better in golf, I can't imagine what it would be. Truly the pinnacle IMO.

Actually I have enjoyed too much of it. I don't watch a lot of tv except sports and I have pretty much watched all the first three rounds. I am usually out in Vegas this week and love betting daily pairings. I would have made some good scratch yesterday watching Freddy fold. I was rooting for him, but he just can't put three good rounds together on a difficult long course like this at age 53. I look for Snedeker and Scott to stay near the top most of today. I wouldn't be surprised to see Snedeker win. His nerves have really toughened up over the past year. I don't know if Scott's putting will hold up enough to win.

 

[frayne]

I agree the most exciting back nine anywhere.

 

[Brat]

DH gets so frustrated with the Golf Channel's commentators, too much bs talk and too little time with cameras on the players.

 

[sheehs1]

Wow, what a great 18th hole for those two. On to the play off!

 

[frayne]

Congrats Adam Scott, the wizard of Oz !

 

[heeyy_joe]

Ban the bellyputter!

 

[Dawg52]

Ban the bellyputter!

Looks like they are going to. But there is a lot more wrong with equipment than just long putters. The players in general are stronger today, but a lot of the extra yards they are getting is though hot golf balls and better clubs. Old classic courses are becoming obsolete. Pros are just hitting drivers and wedges on those courses.

But enough of that. That has been debated to death of golf forums. I am glad Scott won especially after last years heart break at the British Open. Make that the 'Open Championship' for the traditionalist.

 

[sheehs1]

Amazing putts by Adam Scott regardless of the putter. Either could have won. Luck of the draw I suppose.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

I was lucky this year and got to go to a practice round at Augusta. My first time ever. I guess you could say this was on my bucket list, to just see the place and experience its beauty. We lucked out with the weather and the colors were in full bloom. Been waiting for years to get tickets through the lottery and finally made it this year. Every golfer should try to see the place just once.

I watched the Masters from start to finish on TV just like I do every year. It's the one tournament I won't miss. I am very happy for Adam Scott and was kind of pulling for him after what he went through last year.

 

[pb4uski]

Great back nine and extra holes I thought Angel was in the driver's seat when Scott missed the green on the first playoff hole but he missed the opportunity. Scott made some great clutch putts for the win.

 

[ERhoosier]

Ban the bellyputter!

And DQ Tiger.

No reason he should get an eraser for his scoring pencil to avoid DQ after publicly admitting to violating common Rule to his advantage (where to drop after hitting into water hazard) but not adding the appropriate 2 shot penalty to his day's score.......until after he got caught

But that should not overshadow the great drama by Scott & Cabrera down the stretch.
Darn shame either one had to lose. But good to see Scott come back after his collapse at the British Open.

 

[Texas Proud]

And DQ Tiger.

No reason he should get an eraser for his scoring pencil to avoid DQ after publicly admitting to violating common Rule to his advantage (where to drop after hitting into water hazard) but not adding the appropriate 2 shot penalty to his day's score.......until after he got caught

But that should not overshadow the great drama by Scott & Cabrera down the stretch.
Darn shame either one had to lose. But good to see Scott come back after his collapse at the British Open.

Except that he might not have even deserved a two stroke penalty....

Y! SPORTS


The Augusta Chronicle on Sunday printed two photos by staffer Michael Holahan of Woods' two chip shots from the 15th fairway. The first hit the flagstick and rolled into the water, forcing Woods to take a one-stroke penalty and then drop his ball "as nearly as possible" to his original location.
The Chronicle circled various divots in the 15th fairway to show Woods' second shot was in almost the exact same location as the first.
While the photos may not be conclusive evidence and they will no doubt be picked apart, Tiger does appear to be standing within inches of where he took his first shot, not the two yards that he himself thought he had moved.

 

[Midpack]

I thought it was a great back nine and finish too. I thought Jason Day was going to win it, but he slipped and Scott & Cabrera both provided a lot of drama on the last three holes they played (final hole & 2 playoff holes).

I was at the 1989 Masters for Sat & Sun, Faldo won in a playoff. I will never forget those two days, it's a magical place, and television does not begin to do the terrain justice - it's an unbelievable place. Augusta National is one of the few places I can think of more manicured than a Disney theme park.

 

[ERhoosier]

Except that he might not have even deserved a two stroke penalty....

Y! SPORTS


The Augusta Chronicle on Sunday printed two photos by staffer Michael Holahan of Woods' two chip shots from the 15th fairway. The first hit the flagstick and rolled into the water, forcing Woods to take a one-stroke penalty and then drop his ball "as nearly as possible" to his original location.
The Chronicle circled various divots in the 15th fairway to show Woods' second shot was in almost the exact same location as the first.
While the photos may not be conclusive evidence and they will no doubt be picked apart, Tiger does appear to be standing within inches of where he took his first shot, not the two yards that he himself thought he had moved.

Except that he (Tiger) clearly said he moved back 2 yds for his drop in direct violation of Rule 26-1a. That he did so is backed up by fact his caddy stayed back near his original sport while Tiger surveyed the drop area, and CBS photo of his next shot.
Tiger Woods assessed two-stroke penalty for drop on No. 15 Friday - CBSSports.com
I'm no forensic expert, but I find CBS photo more convincing that those from Masters' hometown newspaper.

In any event, I find it impossible to believe that these pros who play 100's of rounds/yr could not know this Rule (water hazard drop procedures) cold. Someone hits in the water somewhere during most rounds. Makes one wonder how many other times over the yrs that pro golfers (inc Tiger) have conveniently mis-interpreted common Rules in their own favor.

Golf-the game of honor

 

[Mulligan]

Except that he (Tiger) clearly said he moved back 2 yds for his drop in direct violation of Rule 26-1a. That he did so is backed up by fact his caddy stayed back near his original sport while Tiger surveyed the drop area, and CBS photo of his next shot.
Tiger Woods assessed two-stroke penalty for drop on No. 15 Friday - CBSSports.com
I'm no forensic expert, but I find CBS photo more convincing that those from Masters' hometown newspaper.

In any event, I find it impossible to believe that these pros who play 100's of rounds/yr could not know this Rule (water hazard drop procedures) cold. Someone hits in the water somewhere during most rounds. Makes one wonder how many other times over the yrs that pro golfers (inc Tiger) have conveniently mis-interpreted common Rules in their own favor.

Golf-the game of honor

Although I am not a real Tiger fan, I personally don't have an issue with the result. Using the rules of golf to suggest he should be disqualified, can also be used to support the decision to allow him to play, as that is the reason why he wasn't. As far as just the realm of honor, sans the rules, I think that Tiger was certainly not dishonest. If he was being dishonest he sure wouldn't have unsolicitedly on national TV stated what he did. In fact, because of his honesty with the officials the following day, really was the reason he was assessed the penalty. Because of his honesty and the fact he brought it up on tv was the only reason he was penalized as the committee had already determined after a viewer call in that he in deed did not violate the rule.

 

[Dawg52]

Because of his honesty and the fact he brought it up on tv was the only reason he was penalized as the committee had already determined after a viewer call in that he in deed did not violate the rule.

The committee must have been looking at the local newspaper photo because the CBS camera angle clearly showed he dropped too far back. To me that is where they messed up, or conveniently messed up to keep him in the tournament.

 

[FinanceDude]

There were several factors that caused all the controversy:

1)Unlike most PGA tour events, there are not officials on the course. Tiger probably would have called one over if wasn't sure. Most courses do not play yellow stakes. Tiger still could have asked for an official, but did not.

2)Gotta love golf. Some guy calls in from his easy chair and tells the Masters folks of the rule violation. Heck, if its that easy to get through to the MAsters clubhouse, I'm going to make a tee time today........

3)When Tiger signed the scorecard, the Masters officials accepted it as a good scorecard. Only later did they review some video and see the error. That was why they did the 2-stroke and not a DQ.........

4)I don't put a lot of weight into camera angles at golf tournaments. Those cameras are high up in towers and have strong telephoto lenses that distort the view.......

5)Tiger could have still DQ'd himself, as some pros called in and said. If this would happen at the PGA Championship, Tiger would have DQ'd, under PGA tour rules. However, the rules as the British Open (Royal Ancient rules) and the Masters don't necessarily follow all rules to the letter.........

I'll be we will see rules officials on the course at the MAsters next year AND NO yellow stakes..........

 

[Mulligan]

There were several factors that caused all the controversy:

1)Unlike most PGA tour events, there are not officials on the course. Tiger probably would have called one over if wasn't sure. Most courses do not play yellow stakes. Tiger still could have asked for an official, but did not.

2)Gotta love golf. Some guy calls in from his easy chair and tells the Masters folks of the rule violation. Heck, if its that easy to get through to the MAsters clubhouse, I'm going to make a tee time today........

3)When Tiger signed the scorecard, the Masters officials accepted it as a good scorecard. Only later did they review some video and see the error. That was why they did the 2-stroke and not a DQ.........

4)I don't put a lot of weight into camera angles at golf tournaments. Those cameras are high up in towers and have strong telephoto lenses that distort the view.......

5)Tiger could have still DQ'd himself, as some pros called in and said. If this would happen at the PGA Championship, Tiger would have DQ'd, under PGA tour rules. However, the rules as the British Open (Royal Ancient rules) and the Masters don't necessarily follow all rules to the letter.........

I'll be we will see rules officials on the course at the MAsters next year AND NO yellow stakes..........

1) The way I understand the tournament and what I heard by announcers is that there are rules officials on course. They are just not on every hole, nor have they ever been to my knowledge. Remember is was a rules official on course who assessed the 14 yr. old the slow play penalty on Friday.
2) I always wondered how much trouble I would get in by jumping over the compound wall and getting a few holes in before I got arrested for trespassing.
3) from my understanding of events the officials had already reviewed the alleged infraction shortly after hole was played. They had already determined he had not violated the rule prior to signing scorecard. Only after his post round comments were brought to officials attention did they re-open the decision. That is why according to what I had heard DQ was never even an option because of the new rule instituted 2 years ago protecting him from that.
4) I agree who knows
5) Yes, he could have DQ'd himself, but the new rule instituted 2 years actually protects him from this. This rule is in the rules of golf, section 33. This rule is in effect at all tournaments. He would not have had to DQ'd himself in the PGA under the exact circumstances that occurred at Masters. It appears he was catching the "flak" from the old school guys, but that is the equivalent of saying Hank Aaron's 755 HR's shouldn't count compared to Babe Ruth because Babe didn't get an opportunity to DH, in my opinion anyways. Even Faldo finally said later us old guys need to except the fact the times have changed and the rules have too. Major champions Curtis Strange, Paul Azinger, and Andy North had a round table discussion on this on an ESPN link yesterday which still may be there explaining the whole process. They were all in agreement the situation was handled correctly and Tiger should not have DQ'd himself.
I found the link and here it is below. If you have 6 minutes you will find it very informative explaining better than how I wrote it.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9167387&categoryid=2630020

 

[karluk]

5) Yes, he could have DQ'd himself, but the new rule instituted 2 years actually protects him from this. This rule is in the rules of golf, section 33. This rule is in effect at all tournaments. He would not have had to DQ'd himself in the PGA under the exact circumstances that occurred at Masters. It appears he was catching the "flak" from the old school guys, but that is the equivalent of saying Hank Aaron's 755 HR's shouldn't count compared to Babe Ruth because Babe didn't get an opportunity to DH, in my opinion anyways. Even Faldo finally said later us old guys need to except the fact the times have changed and the rules have too. Major champions Curtis Strange, Paul Azinger, and Andy North had a round table discussion on this on an ESPN link yesterday which still may be there explaining the whole process. They were all in agreement the situation was handled correctly and Tiger should not have DQ'd himself.

I disagree with your contention that the only people who think Tiger should have been DQed are "old school guys" who either don't know or don't agree with the new rule 33-7. I support rule 33-7 but also think that it clearly indicates that Tiger should have been DQed. In my opinion the Masters improperly used the discretion to waive the DQ, apparently for the selfish reason to keep a wildly popular superstar in contention on the weekend.

The reason I think 33-7 clearly mandates a DQ for Tiger comes from links such as the following. Tiger was ignorant of one of the rules of golf, or perhaps forgot it in the heat of the moment. Too bad for him, but both the USGA and R&A clearly say that the DQ penalty applies in his situation. The Masters committee chose to ignore this directive from golf's governing bodies and give Tiger a break. It turned out to be a popular decision, both with the general public and professional golfers, but decisions like this shouldn't be made based on popular opinion.

The relevant passage is

In revising the decision, The R&A and the USGA confirm that the disqualification penalty still applies for score card breaches that arise from ignorance of the Rules of Golf. As such, this decision reinforces that it is still the responsibility of the player to know the Rules, while recognising that there may be some rare situations where it is reasonable that a player is unaware of the factual circumstances of a breach.

The R&A - R&A and USGA announce new Score Card Rules interpretation

 

[Mulligan]

I disagree with your contention that the only people who think Tiger should have been DQed are "old school guys" who either don't know or don't agree with the new rule 33-7. I support rule 33-7 but also think that it clearly indicates that Tiger should have been DQed. In my opinion the Masters improperly used the discretion to waive the DQ, apparently for the selfish reason to keep a wildly popular superstar in contention on the weekend.

The reason I think 33-7 clearly mandates a DQ for Tiger comes from links such as the following. Tiger was ignorant of one of the rules of golf, or perhaps forgot it in the heat of the moment. Too bad for him, but both the USGA and R&A clearly say that the DQ penalty applies in his situation. The Masters committee chose to ignore this directive from golf's governing bodies and give Tiger a break. It turned out to be a popular decision, both with the general public and professional golfers, but decisions like this shouldn't be made based on popular opinion.

The relevant passage is

The R&A - R&A and USGA announce new Score Card Rules interpretation

I agree with you actually, that there is room for interpretation on whether the committee reached the proper decision. But my contention is the committee had the right to make that decision, thus proper procedures were followed correctly which would allow him to play. Whether you agree with that conclusion or not is certainly a valid point that can be legitimately debated. So I am not actually in disagreement with you. I do not have the incite of the committee members thought process, so I do not know if your opinion is correct or not. I drifted from my original intent from earlier post of defending Tigers honesty in the situation, to appearing to be an "expert" on the rules of golf, and believe me, my playing partners would certainly attest to the fact I am not!

 

[ERhoosier]

1)
I found the link and here it is below. If you have 6 minutes you will find it very informative explaining better than how I wrote it.

Breaking Down The Tiger Ruling - ESPN Video - ESPN

I've seen this explanation as well as several others and still find no logic or basis to support invoking Rule 33 to prevent DQ. As the ESPN piece says, Rule 33 states DQ may be waived "..if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not have reasonably known (emphasis added) or discovered the facts resulting in his breach.." As in any sport, competitors are responsible for knowing the published rules, thus a golfer would be responsible under 33 to include the appropriate 2 stroke penalty BEFORE signing his incorrect scorecard. The fact that the Committee reviewed an inconclusive tape finding no breach during the round is irrelevant because the golfer (Tiger) was never told there was any Committee decision at that point, and the evidence of Rule breach came later in the golfer's public statements.

IMHO- The golf media is ignoring logic and rules precedent by closing ranks on the present situation out of fear that anyone saying otherwise will be banned by the Almighty Masters (a la announcer Gary McCord a few yrs ago).

BTW- Although from 2000, here's some background on other pro golf DQ's, inc. some with striking similarities to Tiger situation-
http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news00/disqualifications.html

 

[JOHNNIE36]

Interesting thoughts on the ruling. The one thing that confused me is that I heard that The Masters is governed by their own body of rules and not necessarily those of the PGA, the USGA and/or the R & A. I know their rules include those of the three governing bodies but are subject to change by The Masters rules committee. Maybe if this was the US Open, the British Open or the PGA Championship the interpretation might have been different. I don't know. The fact that The Masters has their own rules for this tournament is confusing to me. Did not know realize this until now.

When Tiger mentioned that he dropped two yards back from his original
spot, didn't he know this was wrong? Every golfer has to know this rule regarding proper and improper drops.

 

[ERhoosier]

When Tiger mentioned that he dropped two yards back from his original
spot, didn't he know this was wrong? Every golfer has to know this rule regarding proper and improper drops.

Good point. Does this mean that he has been violating the drop rule over his entire pro career