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Old 02-16-2008, 06:59 PM   #21
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The comment was not racial. Please do not try to make it so. It was pointing out the fact that all people knew in the chaos was the shooter was XXXX. Fill in XXX with whatever you want. In this case, XXXX was that the shooter was Asian. If everyone had a gun, they would be shooting at people who looked like XXXXX.

XXXX could have been a white female in a pink mini-shirt with a knapsack. Then everyone with a gun would have shot at any white female in a pink mini-shirt with a knapsack.
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“Yeah, if they let everyone carry guns to class, there would not have been an Asian left alive in Norris. Panic would have overtaken common sense and kids would have been shooting at anyone even remotely Asian-looking.”
I can see how racial overtones shouldn't be read into that statement.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:19 PM   #22
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Get rid of cars we must protect ourselves from the crazies!

Please, it's for the children
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #23
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The shooter also joined the military and was discharged as unsuitable. He had difficulty holding a job. I suspect hidden serious mental illness.

This is all a big part of the problem. We have a guy who is put in a psycho treatment center by his parents after HS he has issues. Gets thrown out of the military.

He never should have been able to purchase a gun PERIOD!

I don't care how we do it but instead of wasting time about steroids in baseball the jackArses that are elected should find the time to find a way to make a list of the dumb animals that should NOT BE ABLE to purchase the guns and ammo that this piece of trash did.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dex View Post
I can see how racial overtones shouldn't be read into that statement.

*sigh*

I already explained my point. But I have a funny feeling you knew what it was to begin with. Why you wish to insist that it was otherwise is beyond me - but whatever.....
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:03 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by KM View Post
*sigh*

I already explained my point. But I have a funny feeling you knew what it was to begin with. Why you wish to insist that it was otherwise is beyond me - but whatever.....
No,

As the statement you quoted points out and what I'm suggesting is that when under pressure people they expose their real feeling - racial or otherwise - history show it to be true. I think it should be addressed in the school so history does not repeat itself.

It doesn't work to say that a white woman in a skirt or white male in blue jeans could be subsituted with Asian.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:36 AM   #26
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No,
As the statement you quoted points out and what I'm suggesting is that when under pressure people they expose their real feeling - racial or otherwise - history show it to be true. I think it should be addressed in the school so history does not repeat itself.
It doesn't work to say that a white woman in a skirt or white male in blue jeans could be subsituted with Asian.
I read KM's statement to mean that people all hopped up on adrenaline and itching to be a hero would hear the rumor that an asian guy had done the shooting and would have a jumpy trigger finger when they saw an asian person. That doesn't mean they are racist, it just means they are not trained peace officers and therefore could react erratically and jump to conclusions in the heat of the moment, and should not be carrying guns around when they don't know what they are doing. People might be just as trigger happy if KM had said the shooter was a white male with a blond beard, since that description could similarly stand out from the general college population.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:02 AM   #27
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Well Geeze wiz the shooter was a psycho and was in a mental institution!
I think all of the psychos should be put in concentration camps and covered in cheese whiz...
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:44 AM   #28
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I read KM's statement to mean that people all hopped up on adrenaline and itching to be a hero would hear the rumor that an asian guy had done the shooting and would have a jumpy trigger finger when they saw an asian person. That doesn't mean they are racist, it just means they are not trained peace officers and therefore could react erratically and jump to conclusions in the heat of the moment, and should not be carrying guns around when they don't know what they are doing. People might be just as trigger happy if KM had said the shooter was a white male with a blond beard, since that description could similarly stand out from the general college population.
Maybe it comes down to your interpertation of the word racist.
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Old 02-17-2008, 06:49 AM   #29
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I'm also in favor of allowing people to arm themselves for self protection. I'll always opt for the choice to defend myself and my family if I can help it.

I don't like the gun-free zones. I really don't feel safer in them mostly because criminals don't obey the law like the rest of us.

Interesting about the shooters mental history. I wonder what he reported on his firearm purchase record when asked about mental illness?
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:04 AM   #30
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I think all of the psychos should be put in concentration camps and covered in cheese whiz...
God Bless
OOOhhhhhh, concentrated cheeze whiz. Now I'm hungry.
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:13 AM   #31
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The handgun/gun dispute. No easy answer here.

I am conflicted about it. I think law abiding citizens should be able to own one if they choose. But the crazies and criminals out there are a threat.

Something that kinda makes sense but also seems nutty is the rationale: let's arm ourselves so we can protect ourselves from the crazies and criminals.

Personally I do not own one. If I did, I would not go around packing just waiting for the one in a million chance that I might need to protect myself.

I adhere to the principle of trying to avoiding the circumstances that could get me in a situation where I might need a gun. But I realize sometimes trouble finds you.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:46 AM   #32
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If everybody is packing then the bad guy is going to shoot you and those around you before you have time to react......

Muggings turn into executions.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:19 AM   #33
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I'll tell you one thing, when faced with that situation, I'd rather have a gun and be able to protect myself than be a sitting duck. Currently the law requires that I be a sitting duck. That is unacceptable to me.

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Most people will make the situation more dangerous with a gun. You may feel you wouldn't - and I can't comment on that. And although I respect your right to your opinion, if you truly believe that arming every person with a gun will make us all safer - then I hope your dreams never come true.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:44 AM   #34
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I think the answer is not easy and would require the resolve of many people/organizations. 1) I don't think the media should release any information about the identity of the killers. This would stop the mentality of, "Nobody even knows who I am. I'm going to kill myself and as many other people as I can. They'll remember me then." 2) There should be a database, similar to NCIC specifically for people diagnosed with certain mental health conditions. This database would not include those who have been diagnosed with maladies typically not including violence. 3) Concealed carry laws should be changed to allow for yearly firearms training. This could be accomplished by requiring the concealed carry permit to be renewed yearly. After so many years of possessing a carry permit the time for renewal could be extended out (i.e. the first two permits are valid for one year each. The third and fourth are valid for three years and all subsequent are valid for five years.) Training needs to be more in-depth. 4) Firearms should be allowed on campus. Not everyone would carry, but those who do, would at least have some training.

These are my thoughts on the whole thing.
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
The handgun/gun dispute. No easy answer here.

I am conflicted about it. I think law abiding citizens should be able to own one if they choose. But the crazies and criminals out there are a threat.

Something that kinda makes sense but also seems nutty is the rationale: let's arm ourselves so we can protect ourselves from the crazies and criminals.

Personally I do not own one. If I did, I would not go around packing just waiting for the one in a million chance that I might need to protect myself.

I adhere to the principle of trying to avoiding the circumstances that could get me in a situation where I might need a gun. But I realize sometimes trouble finds you.
And there's the rub. I am a gun owner and have a carry permit but don't carry. A few months ago i got tangled up with some Pit bulls. No pistol on me and i ended up a bit bit and called 911 since the dogs were hanging around and having an aggressive good time. Took an officer 20-30 minutes to arrive and he shot one of the dogs within a minute or so of arriving (dog went for a girl walking down the alley). So. we got lucky that the dogs didn't do more damage before he arrived. Owning guns and having a permit does no good if they firearm isn't right at hand when you need it. You almost never need it. It's not the wild west. I can't be bothered to carry a penknife, much less 3# of pistol all the time.

It offends me to read that killers get to empty their firearms and reload to kill some more. In balance though, is more death likely if everyone is packing or if the rare killers get 20-45 minutes of unhindered freefire time? I suspect the former. Wonder what the level of looney-murders is in Israel, a country that i suspect has more firearms at hand than here?
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:41 PM   #36
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I usually hear the same arguments when a state passes concealed carry laws making it easier for its law abiding citizens to carry. They are typically "it will be the wild west all over again" or "there will be no minor arguments anymore, only gunfights!"

That just doesn't happen. In most cases crime rates go down and there is no increase in gun violence.

I hate reading from the survivors of these killings that they had to "play dead" or were just waiting to get shot and killed.

I certainly want to defend myself if I have a choice. Law enforcement won't be there to do it and have no legal responsibility to defend you.
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:13 PM   #37
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I usually hear the same arguments when a state passes concealed carry laws making it easier for its law abiding citizens to carry. They are typically "it will be the wild west all over again" or "there will be no minor arguments anymore, only gunfights!"

That just doesn't happen. In most cases crime rates go down and there is no increase in gun violence.

I hate reading from the survivors of these killings that they had to "play dead" or were just waiting to get shot and killed.

I certainly want to defend myself if I have a choice. Law enforcement won't be there to do it and have no legal responsibility to defend you.
So lets assume you have the choice, lets even say you have the legal choice. Are you really going to pack heat all the time? Just got back from shooting with a friend - he had a new Airweight .38. Surprisingly nice pistol to shoot - lots more compact than my .45 and just under a pound empty - but i still can't see myself carting it around ALL the time - but maybe i'm weird - don't carry much in my pockets at all. What do you think. For reals - would you carry all the time? Won't do you any good if you aren't packing when that rare time you need it comes up... Some years ago the same friend i was just shooting with got ratpacked by his stepson and a number of the kid's friends. He was carrying and got pretty scuffed up - told me later the main thing he was concerned about was that the gun not be seen and become part of the fight. Threatening the stepson and his friends with the pistol was meaningless unless he was willing to shoot one or more of them, and he wasn't. Lots to think about before the fact.
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:35 PM   #38
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Just got back from shooting with a friend - he had a new Airweight .38. Surprisingly nice pistol to shoot - lots more compact than my .45 and just under a pound empty - but i still can't see myself carting it around ALL the time - but maybe i'm weird - don't carry much in my pockets at all.
I'm the same - I have a Glock 26 and a Kimber cdp II and they are too much to carry around.

Ruger is coming out with a 38 auto that might work.
The Ruger LCP™ - Lightweight Compact Pistol
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:16 PM   #39
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I'm the same - I have a Glock 26 and a Kimber cdp II and they are too much to carry around.

Ruger is coming out with a 38 auto that might work.
The Ruger LCP™ - Lightweight Compact Pistol
Saw that one - TopGlock deals emailed me to pre-order - 9.5 oz. and a lot more round than the 1920 build .25 Colt vest pocket pistol i have kicking around - and 2.5 oz lighter. Be hard pressed to hit a wall from inside a room with the .25 - and it would likely peeve anything shot with it. Lord knows you don't want to just peeve something you shoot.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:22 AM   #40
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I really wish these media types would stop publicizing the name and face of the perp. I really do think that's what motivates some of these people, and if they were treated as some anonymous no-name then at least some of their motivation might be gone.
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