What are you doing to survive the Bird Flu......

Cut-Throat said:
Here is one link. If you google his name, you will find countless speeches by him on this topic. He is highly respected here in Minnesota.

http://www.nih.gov/nihrecord/05_05_2006/story04.htm

A pandemic will happen, absolutely.

That's what I thought.   He's not talking about bird flu.   He's just saying that pandemics happen.    We don't know what.   We don't know when.   But someday, we'll have another pandemic.
 
wab said:
A pandemic will happen, absolutely.

That's what I thought. He's not talking about bird flu. He's just saying that pandemics happen. We don't know what. We don't know when. But someday, we'll have another pandemic.

You read every speech on the web that he ever gave! - That was fast!
 
Cut-Throat said:
You read every speech on the web that he ever gave! - That was fast!

Good debating tactic.   Either you can tell me where he said that a bird flu pandemic was a certainty, or I can read every speech he ever made and find it myself.    I'll pass.  ;)
 
wab said:
Good debating tactic. Either you can tell me where he said that a bird flu pandemic was a certainty, or I can read every speech he ever made and find it myself. I'll pass. ;)

Another Quote:
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“I believe an influenza pandemic will be like a 12- to 18-month global blizzard that will ultimately change the world as we know it today,” Osterholm testified before Congress in December. He’s been singing this dirge for years now, on CNN, Oprah, Nightline, and in the ears of some of the world’s most powerful people. Osterholm served as an adviser to the Clinton administration, and he consults with the Bush administration on numerous public health issues, from pandemic flu to bioterrorism."
*****************************************************************

I thought you wanted to learn something, rather than just get in an arguement. But I guess should know better by now! ::)
 
I buy that. There are a zillion strains of flu, and new ones are created each day. We might also have a pandemic like the Black Plague, which wasn't a flu.

Bottom line: some people think we're overdue for a pandemic, but there's no strong evidence that Bird Flu is The One.
 
Well, I wouldn't underestimate this one, kids. Lots of uncertainties to be sure, but it could be big.

Problem is, no one really knows what to do about it. Or, it could just fizzle out. As for me, I'll do what Bogle always says: don't do something, just stand there.
 
Rich_in_Tampa said:
Well, I wouldn't underestimate this one, kids. Lots of uncertainties to be sure, but it could be big.

Problem is, no one really knows what to do about it. Or, it could just fizzle out. As for me, I'll do what Bogle always says: don't do something, just stand there.

Yeah, that's about where I come down. I bought a few odds and ends, but mostly it is generic emergency supplies in case of hurricane, power outage, etc. that I should have around anyway. I'm not ready to start constructing the underground bunker or tinfoil hat.
 
I am doing a couple of things: 1. Keeping a very well stocked pantry of non-perishibles; 2. keeping myself healthy through a program of very good diet and exercise; keeping vitamins on hand and taking them daily.

BTW, last time I was sick (1999) I took Tamiflu, and it did seem to cause my flu to be milder and shorter than "normal."

Oh...and I do have a pretty well-stocked wine cellar also :)

Cheers,
Mike
 
Rich_in_Tampa said:
Well, I wouldn't underestimate this one, kids. Lots of uncertainties to be sure, but it could be big.

Problem is, no one really knows what to do about it. Or, it could just fizzle out. As for me, I'll do what Bogle always says: don't do something, just stand there.

My feeling is that it would be foolish not to prepare on a personal level.   The downside to *personal* preparation is low, and the upside is potentially large.

The bigger issue is whether the same holds true on a national / government level.    Do we really want the same folks who brought us the Katrina debacle to save us from bird flu?

Here's an article where scientists are already warning government leaders to focus on known issues instead of diverting resources to something that might fizzle (and will be probably be made worse by government solutions, in any case):

Article
 
wab said:
The bigger issue is whether the same holds true on a national / government level.    Do we really want the same folks who brought us the Katrina debacle to save us from bird flu?

Oh, I think the Katrina embarassment underscores the point that we cannot count on our gummint to help us, at least not on a feddle level. Not that it will stop our elected boobs from pissing away untold billions on pork "crucial" bird flu stuff.
 
In my humble opinion it MAY arise, 20% likelyhood. My brother works at military facillity. They are ready for the pandemic.

If we go to extraordinary efforts to insulate ourselves, we will only delay the burnout period. That will lengthen the pandemic increasing risk for a longer period.

If EVERYONE on the planet were able to hunker down for a few weeks, it may disappear but how likely is that?

Once it has "crossed over" to the human population, it will be in the US within a week or 2. It will take 6 months to distribute vaccine, once the strain is identified. I am sure all international travel will stop as soon as it is id''d which will most likely be in Asia. That is the bad news since they will probably keep it quiet for a few days.

Realistically, we need 6 mos of supplies.

ER's etc will not accept flu patients, nor will hospitals.

There will be flu centers, probably schools and other large areas to treat and house the sick to keep them from the population.

All transportation will cease, if you are fortunate to work from home or can work from home, you might do ok.

Since there will be so many deaths, there should be plenty of jobs.

Masks and gloves will be a hot seller.

Most migratory waterfoul will dissapear for a generation like before.
 
Just one question. Whatever happened to SARS? Seems like two winters ago this was in all the news reports as the next scary scenario. People in China were dropping like flies. I haven't heard it mentioned since. There is always somebody out there crying "the sky is falling". Gimme a break!

Grumpy
 
grumpy said:
Just one question. Whatever happened to SARS? Seems like two winters ago this was in all the news reports as the next scary scenario. People in China were dropping like flies. I haven't heard it mentioned since. There is always somebody out there crying "the sky is falling". Gimme a break!

That's my take on it too. I figure the Avian Bird Flu pandemic timeline will be thus: a few dozen/hundred in Asia drop dead from person-person transmission. Then CNN/Fox News start picking up the reports. All the crazies in the US rush out and clear out the shelves of all retail stores. Within a week, Walmart's shelves are restocked (as well as they usually are anyway). The bird flu hasn't hit the US yet. Then I go out and buy what I need in case there's a real emergency. I figure at any given time I have at least 4 weeks of stockpiled food in my house. Most of you are probably the same. Shelves and pantries full of canned goods and nonperishables?

Worst case I drive up to Grandma's house and help her eat all the hundreds or thousands of jars of food in her pantry. And drink her well water.

My backup plan is the eggs and poultry I'll get from all the chickens in the chicken coop in the back yard. That should hold me over for a week or two, right guys? ;)
 
Isnt it the case that all prior pandemics occurred prior to any understanding of diseases and how they spread? Given modern understanding of infectious diseases, isnt it probable that widespread infection and death would be pretty limited?
 
Diaper Bunny said:
Isnt it the case that all prior pandemics occurred prior to any understanding of diseases and how they spread? Given modern understanding of infectious diseases, isnt it probable that widespread infection and death would be pretty limited?

That's not the thinking among scientists and guys that have actually been to Medical School.
 
I've heard about power and water being shut off in the event of bird flu. Why would that be a possibility? Couldn't we always boil water for 5 min. to kill the virii?
 
From a couple of experts on SARS and avian influenza: http://www.esi-topics.com/avian/interviews/Peiris_Guan.html

. . . once it emerges, pandemic influenza is likely to have a much greater impact that SARS did. Pandemic influenza will not be stopped by the public health measures used to stop SARS transmission in the community. From past experience we know that influenza pandemics will sweep the world within the first eight to nine months of its emergence. The spread will possibly be much faster now, with the great increase in air travel. The major unknown is the severity of human disease associated with such a pandemic. The pandemic of 1968 was relatively mild while that of 1918 was associated with a high severity of clinical disease. What we know about human disease associated with H5N1 so far is not too reassuring. Of course H5N1 may become less virulent to humans as it adapts better to human transmission, but this is not inevitable.

Certainly pandemic flu, as its original hosts are different. We knew SARS virus mainly harbored in wild animals in the markets, such as civets—but there are only a small number of those animals. After closing the wildlife markets, the SARS virus did not come back in the last year. We also averted a second outbreak in early 2004. However, avian influenza has millions and millions of hosts and those hosts may migrate long distances just within one day. So, it is much more difficult to contain bird flu than SARS.
 
This interview with Oprah Winfrey was enough of a wake up call for me. - Hopefully it does not happen, but it's not a big deal to stockpile a bit of food and water.



What is bird flu?
Everybody's had the flu at some time in their lives, with its familiar symptoms: aches, chills, fatigue and cough. So why is the "bird flu" making so many headlines?

The deadly virus H5N1 is a strain of influenza normally found only in chickens, turkeys and a variety of other birds. In certain countries including Vietnam, Indonesia, China, Thailand, Cambodia, Egypt and Turkey, this H5N1 virus has spread to a handful of humans. To date, of the 218 people who have been infected by bird flu, more than half have died. The victims are believed to have contracted bird flu after coming in contact with feces, blood or mucus of infected birds.

At the moment there is not conclusive evidence that the virus can spread from one human to another. However, this could soon change because the bird flu virus mutates so rapidly. If a mutated strain were able to spread from human to human—an occurrence some medical experts say is inevitable—this highly contagious flu could travel around the globe in a matter of days, infecting every city in every country on the planet.

How does bird flu differ from seasonal flu?
According to Dr. Michael Osterholm, an infectious disease expert from the University of Minnesota, understanding the different kinds of influenza viruses can help explain why bird flu is so potentially deadly.

"There really are, in a sense, three different kinds of influenza viruses," he says. "There is that which naturally lives in wild birds. That virus doesn't really hurt us very often."

The second type of influenza, called seasonal flu, is the one most know. Though it is common, this flu virus kills 36,000 people a year, Dr. Osterholm says.

The third kind of influenza virus is the one that has many people extremely worried. It is a flu virus that has mutated from affecting only birds to one that can infect both birds and humans. "That's when we see a pandemic, or a worldwide epidemic," Dr. Osterholm says. "And that's what we worry about."

Why does a flu virus mutate? "When that virus lives inside a bird, it's uniquely made to live inside the cell of a bird," Dr. Osterholm explains. However, "the influenza virus is one of the sloppiest, most indiscreet, most promiscuous viruses we know. It basically doesn't know how to reproduce itself very well, and it makes mistakes all the time. That's called a mutation. Some of those mutations will actually survive, and when they survive they actually get closer and closer to allowing it to get inside a human cell. Imagine the chicken virus is a key and the chicken cell is the lock. It gets in easily. The human cell is the lock. The chicken key doesn't work well in it. Over time the mutations change that key just enough so now it readily gets inside a human cell. That's what we're worried about."

Should I really be worried?
Dr. Osterholm says there are a few troubling aspects to bird flu.

Regular flu shots do not work to prevent transmission of bird flu. "Influenza viruses are unique," he says. "We talk about this H5N1, the bird virus. 'H' and 'N' just stand for parts of the virus. Every year we tell people to get a flu shot because of the mutation problem. This indiscreet, sloppy reproduction changes enough from year to year that we actually need to get a new flu shot every year, unlike other viruses like measles that do not mutate nearly as much."

One year of working to create a bird flu vaccine would only yield enough for about 300 million people: less than 5 percent of the world's population.

Another major concern is the period in which influenza is at its most contagious—a day before symptoms become known. "So right now if I have an influenza infection, and I'm going to be sick tonight, at midnight when I wake up in the middle of the night with muscle aches, fever and chills, I've already exposed [others to the virus]," Dr. Osterholm tells Oprah. This makes quarantining those infected with the virus incredibly difficult, if not impossible.

To see what a worst-case scenario flu pandemic looks like, Dr. Osterholm points to historical precedent. Though there were other smaller scale pandemics in 1957–58 and 1968–69, the plague of 1918 was clearly the worst. As recounted in historian John M. Berry's The Great Influenza, the 1918 pandemic killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide. (some experts are predicting 3 BILLION deaths with the bird flu pandemic).

We may not get such a deadly strain of bird flu, but as for completely escaping another pandemic, Dr. Osterholm says,...

"This is not a probability issue, it's going to happen.


What we don't know is which strain it's going to be or when it's going to happen. It could be tonight. It could be 10 years from now. The bottom line is we have a lot to do to get better prepared."

Dr. Osterholm points to the lack of sufficient drugs, hospital beds and ventilators as key problems if a pandemic were to break out. However, it's not too late to start planning, he says.
 
"This is not a probability issue, it's going to happen.

What we don't know is which strain it's going to be or when it's going to happen. It could be tonight. It could be 10 years from now. The bottom line is we have a lot to do to get better prepared."

Dr. Osterholm points to the lack of sufficient drugs, hospital beds and ventilators as key problems if a pandemic were to break out. However, it's not too late to start planning, he says.

I see the shibboleth here. See the conflations. Look into my eyes.. concenetrate on the pocket watch as it sways back and forth... back and forth... Nice blue dress you're wearin' Monica.

So, there's a Bird flu. It's a bu tahts beenm around for tousands of yrs. Moving right along lets talk about epidemics and pandemics and preparedness for something we don't even know the "what" and "when" about.

I keep saying why such a hard-on over Bird Flu? Why not measles or one of the 10,000 other viruses that COULD mutate. Dont askl which one. We KNOW it will happen. Bu apparently the bird flu has about as much chance an anything else (But we just dont know). The game is rigged. Anybody thinks it's not is being had.

Now, does that mean NO pandemic will happen...? No of course not. But what do tehse ass*les mean by we have to be better prepared. Better prepared for what? And HOW?

Bird flu = No more threat than before bird flu. There is ovbviously something else going on here
 
We may not get such a deadly strain of bird flu, but as for completely escaping another pandemic, Dr. Osterholm says "this is not a probability issue, it's going to happen".

So some sort of pandemic will happen in the indefinite future. Looks like flu pandemics of one degree or another have happened a few times in the last century or so. I guess we can count on another one in the next few decades. Could be minor, could be severe. Could be bird flu or could be regular flu. I think I'll keep getting my flu shot and trying to wash my hands frequently. And not eat chicken sushi too often.

Bird flu seems like another one of those things that has a small probability of manifesting itself over the next few years or decades. Combine that with a small chance that I'll be exposed to it, and a small chance I'll contract it (I'm getting the flu vaccine) and combine that with a small chance of death if treated, and combine that with... you get the point. Seems another thing to get neurotic about. Probably the best public health suggestion is to wash your hands frequently and especially before touching your face, hair, or mucus membranes, or eating food.
 
We may not get such a deadly strain of bird flu, but as for completely escaping another pandemic, Dr. Osterholm says "this is not a probability issue, it's going to happen".

So some sort of pandemic will happen in the indefinite future. Looks like flu pandemics of one degree or another have happened a few times in the last century or so. I guess we can count on another one in the next few decades. Could be minor, could be severe.

Exactly. So why are they bringing it up NOW as if it were something new? And why are they hell bent on connecting it to Bird Flu while simulatenously denying that bird flu itself is any more meaningful to the discussion as any other germ?
 
razztazz said:
Exactly. So why are they bringing it up NOW as if it were something new? And why are they hell bent on connecting it to Bird Flu while simulatenously denying that bird flu itself is any more meaningful to the discussion as any other germ?

I guess you know more. Oprah should have interviewed you also. You could have debated Dr. Osterholm instead of us nimrods on the internet.
 
I guess you know more. Oprah should have interviewed you also. You could have debated Dr. Osterholm instead of us nimrods on the internet.

I'd ask him the same G/D question and expect a real answer. Not some expert making a naked appeal to his own authority as evidence and ejaculating thru his mouth.

Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity. GB Shaw
 
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