Golf Talk Tuesdays 2015-2020

[Midpack]

According to an article by Dave Pelz, it's a no brainer to leave the pin is on all putts.

Probably true on the courses he plays. Where I play the pin isn’t always straight upright, or on windy days it leans a lot and putting into the wind would result in the pin holding the ball out. I assume we’ve all seen shots that hit the pin and bounced away that probably would have gone in without the pin, however infrequent. To me there’s no downside to tending, all upside. But again, I realize the pin won’t matter on most putts over 10 feet for me at least. I’ll take my cues from the guys I play with. At Kapalua this week it seems most touring pros are not leaving the pin in, though some are - time will tell.

 

[gcgang]

https://www.golf.com/Instruction/2019/01/02/dave-plez-putt-with-the-flagstick-in-rule-change-2018

Here's a recent article by Pelz. The science is in. Even Bryson, the ultimate scientific player, is leaving it in.

Still, I think an unintended consequence may be slowing play as everyone is now going to be frigging with the pin.

 

[Dawg52]

If the pin is not leaning I would just as soon leave it in. I imagine most of the guys I play with will have a tough time breaking the habit of pulling it out so that will be fine too. I'm not going to tell someone to put it back in just for my putt. Sometimes we don't all get to the green at the same time so for speed of play if I'm on the green I will go ahead and putt(if away). It will be nice just to leave the pin in and the rest can do whatever they want with it.

 

[pb4uski]

We played Saturday... we often left the pin in on some longer putts mostly as a convenience of not having to have someone go over and take it out... otherwise didn't impact play be to be honest we were not thinking about it too much.

 

[Music Lover]

I assume we’ve all seen shots that hit the pin and bounced away that probably would have gone in without the pin, however infrequent.

And there are the putts that might have gone 8 feet past but hitting the flag killed some momentum...even if it doesn't drop, it's more likely to end up closer to the hole. At times my lag putting is so bad I'll take all the help I can get...

 

[gcgang]

Major Changes

Here's good overview of the new rules from USGA.

 

[frayne]

Played Monday and we kept the pin in the entire round and didn't see any difference in scores. At best it might save a person a stroke or two a round at best. On the upside though, it did speed up play as everyone agreed before the round to keep the pin in. If there was a tilting flag stick, someone still tended it to keep it upright and straight. Next year this won't even be a discussion issue.

 

[HadEnuff]

Played Monday and we kept the pin in the entire round and didn't see any difference in scores. At best it might save a person a stroke or two a round at best. On the upside though, it did speed up play as everyone agreed before the round to keep the pin in. If there was a tilting flag stick, someone still tended it to keep it upright and straight. Next year this won't even be a discussion issue.

I played a couple of days ago and one guy rolled in a long putt would have certainly dropped, but hit the stick at that perfect speed and was rejected. Otherwise I thought it was great, especially when one guy could putt, while others are walking back to cart for a different wedge or something. You can just roll it up there and if you get lucky, no penalty.

the only issue I have with it is that I was always taught to lay your unused club on the stick so you wouldn't walk off without it. That's going to be a problem for me I think.

 

[JoeWras]

the only issue I have with it is that I was always taught to lay your unused club on the stick so you wouldn't walk off without it. That's going to be a problem for me I think.

The habit I learned was lay it on the edge of green on a path you will take to your cart or path to next hole. Not as good, but maybe next best thing.

 

[HadEnuff]

The habit I learned was lay it on the edge of green on a path you will take to your cart or path to next hole. Not as good, but maybe next best thing.

yep...that's what I was working on.

 

[Music Lover]

the only issue I have with it is that I was always taught to lay your unused club on the stick so you wouldn't walk off without it. That's going to be a problem for me I think.

I do that too and it saves me from leaving clubs behind all the time.

 

[Huston55]

Palm Springs

In Palm Springs for a few days. If would recommend Classic Club & Desert Willow Firecliff if you visit here. Both are great courses. It helps if you know a resident who can get you a good rate but, if you can’t do that, worth the resort rack rate IMO.

 

[robnplunder]

I like the changed golf rules for 2019. They are more sensible although purist may find the changes unsettling.

 

[HadEnuff]

I like the changed golf rules for 2019. They are more sensible although purist may find the changes unsettling.

I generally like them a lot, especially for the amateur 4some trying to get around my municipal course in under 4 1/2 hours. I suspect that just leaving the pin in, unattended, for longer putts, will save 15-20 minutes per round, if employed.

I'm not crazy about fixing spike marks. There is something sacred about the line of a putt. OK, I guess I'm more of a purist than I would have previously thought. I used to think it was crazy not to be able to fix a spike mark, or a foot drag, until I played in a tournament where it was allowed. It's a thin thin line between tapping down the spike mark and pressing down the line of a putt to influence the break.
Temptation, temptation, temptation....but we all know golfers don't cheat, right?

 

[JoeWras]

I'm not crazy about fixing spike marks. There is something sacred about the line of a putt. OK, I guess I'm more of a purist than I would have previously thought. I used to think it was crazy not to be able to fix a spike mark, or a foot drag, until I played in a tournament where it was allowed. It's a thin thin line between tapping down the spike mark and pressing down the line of a putt to influence the break.
Temptation, temptation, temptation....but we all know golfers don't cheat, right?

To me the changes are a swing back to early purism. I.E. put more trust in the golfer for doing What Is Right.

A lot of these ticky tack things got added through the years because of arguments.

So now we drop from the knee. One could say you can create a fairly good lie. Remember at the extreme dropping back over your shoulder?

Back to basics, back to trust. I like it.

 

[Music Lover]

So now we drop from the knee. One could say you can create a fairly good lie. Remember at the extreme dropping back over your shoulder?

I assume that dropping behind your back was an attempt to make it as random as possible.

I don't have a problem with a drop from the knee as most shots bounce a few times with the last bounce fairly low to the ground. A drop from the knee probably recreates the lie more accurately that a drop from 4 or 5 feet up.

 

[davebarnes]

Golf-Home Owners Find Themselves in a Hole
Lawsuits pile up and fairways fall into disrepair as younger Americans shun golf, leaving behind homeowners who paid a premium for life on the links
https://www.wsj.com/articles/golf-home-owners-find-themselves-in-a-hole-11547135191

"More than 200 golf courses closed in 2017 across the country, while only about 15 new ones opened"

 

[Big_Hitter]

Golf-Home Owners Find Themselves in a Hole
Lawsuits pile up and fairways fall into disrepair as younger Americans shun golf, leaving behind homeowners who paid a premium for life on the links
https://www.wsj.com/articles/golf-home-owners-find-themselves-in-a-hole-11547135191

"More than 200 golf courses closed in 2017 across the country, while only about 15 new ones opened"

that's why I joined an equity club

 

[Music Lover]

Golf-Home Owners Find Themselves in a Hole
Lawsuits pile up and fairways fall into disrepair as younger Americans shun golf, leaving behind homeowners who paid a premium for life on the links
https://www.wsj.com/articles/golf-home-owners-find-themselves-in-a-hole-11547135191

"More than 200 golf courses closed in 2017 across the country, while only about 15 new ones opened"

15 - 20 years ago it used to be hard to get a tee time without reserving a few days in advance. Now I can get a tee time on most courses the very same day.

I rarely see young people on the course these days...there are few golfers under 30 and the sightings only seem to be at private and semi-private courses where they are likely the offspring of members.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I rarely see young people on the course these days...there are few golfers under 30 and the sightings only seem to be at private and semi-private courses where they are likely the offspring of members.

i see kids all the time - the Boise State men's and women's golf teams practice at my club, as do the local high and junior high schools

 

[JoeWras]

Oh boy, the decline is an interesting subject and I think it is also multi-faceted.

Growing up in a midwest urban area in the 70s for me meant visiting compact public courses, with forgiving fairways. A little hook or slice meant a quick poke from an adjoining fairway. And it was fairly affordable, even if the greens were not top notch, and the sand was practically non-existent. It was still golf. You could easily walk since tee boxes were right next to the last green.

Then the boomers grow up and demand super fancy, even for the public courses. Semi-private courses with homesteads are the new rage. Courses are spread out, sometimes with long walks between holes that demand a cart fee. There's no relief if you go in the rough, it is a lost ball or OB. I think for young golfers, the demand to buy a cart along with courses that are never forgiving is part of the problem.

 

[pb4uski]

Golf-Home Owners Find Themselves in a Hole
Lawsuits pile up and fairways fall into disrepair as younger Americans shun golf, leaving behind homeowners who paid a premium for life on the links
https://www.wsj.com/articles/golf-home-owners-find-themselves-in-a-hole-11547135191

"More than 200 golf courses closed in 2017 across the country, while only about 15 new ones opened"

In the community where my Mom lives there were many people who bought houses on the golf course... not because they golfed (some did), but more because of the nice grounds right in the back yard.... and they paid a small premium for that. One of those courses closed and is now just bush-hogged... better than forest but not what they bargained for.

We have friends who own in a golf community where belonging to the golf club is a deed restriction... aka "bundled golf"... that currently costs at least $2k a year.... if golf continues on its slide it will be interesting to see what that deed restriction does to property values. $2k/4%? Luckily though, the club also has tennis and pickleball, a nice restaurant and nice fitness center facilities too so perhaps the impact won't be so severe.

 

[zinger1457]

Not a scientific study, just my observation, but I travel to Phoenix/Scottsdale and Palm Springs regularly and golf in both of those areas seem to be doing well. It's definitely harder to get discounted tee times at the nicer golf courses then it use to be. Both of those areas do get a lot of seasonal long term visitors, I get paired with Canadians almost every time I play in Palm Springs.

 

[JoeWras]

We had one of these courses with homes fail in the local area. The county commissioners voted to buy it for a park. They then reversed their decision and want to sell it. It is a split decision by commissioners all from the same political party, so it is very contentious since "friends" are arguing.

Nearby residents promise heavy litigation. Basically, it is a mess. There's a lot of uncertainty as to how this will end up due to covenants and restrictions that were lifted and may be put back.

I don't live nearby, so it wasn't going to affect me much. But the intriguing thing to me is to try to understand how what is effectively strips of land between houses can make a park. For that matter, it is hard to understand how any of it can be developed in any way.

 

[zinger1457]

I don't live nearby, so it wasn't going to affect me much. But the intriguing thing to me is to try to understand how what is effectively strips of land between houses can make a park. For that matter, it is hard to understand how any of it can be developed in any way.

I could see many golf course making a great park area if developed properly. The cost to develop it properly and the upkeep would be the problem. The typical golf course is probably over a hundred acres, not sure most areas have the budget to handle that kind of development without a big increase in local property taxes.