Poll: Flu 2017/18 Season - Flu and Shot

[DEC-1982]

I have always wondered how effective the flu shot is. I keep hearing that half the time it doesn't cover the current (year) strain of flu.

 

[Rosie]

Some of what people keep hearing about the flu shot might be, dare I say, fake news.

A Life-Threatening Piece Of ACTUAL Fake News Has Gone Viral On Facebook. Please Stop Sharing It | IFLScience

This concerns an article that has gone viral (no pun intended) on facebook.

Some snippets from the iflscience article I linked above:

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The article in question quotes made-up medical professionals from the CDC, warns people against taking actions that could save their own lives, and could lead to real people getting ill unnecessarily, or even dying.

The piece, from yournewswire, claims that the flu shot causes flu outbreaks and that many people are dying as a result.

“We have seen people dying across the country of the flu, and one thing nearly all of them have in common is they got the flu shot," an anonymous doctor (who doesn't exist) from the CDC told yournewswire, even though they really didn't.

“Some of the patients I’ve administered the flu shot to this year have died," the fictional doctor continues. "I don’t care who you are, this scares the crap out of me.”

That's a terrifying thing to read, and you can see why people are sharing it. If you thought you'd come across some new and horrifying information that could save the lives of family members, you would too.

The piece goes on to attribute deaths to the flu vaccine, and claim that the shot is more dangerous than the virus itself.

"Many medical experts now agree it is more important to protect yourself and your family from the flu vaccine than the flu itself."

[...]

If you share articles warning people not to take the flu vaccine, somewhere out there someone could read it. They could be in a vulnerable group. They could be over 65, they could have chronic heart, lung, or kidney disease. They could be put off getting a vaccine because of the article you shared. They could get ill and they could become one of the 36,000 people in the US who die every year because of influenza.

---------------------------------------------------

Obviously, because I'm posting this, I agree with the message of this article.

 

[Rosie]

I have always wondered how effective the flu shot is. I keep hearing that half the time it doesn't cover the current (year) strain of flu.

The problem is, there's more than one current (year) strain of flu.

Here's an article from the CDC that describes the process of deciding which 3 to 4 strains of flu virus go into a seasonal flu vaccine. The strains need to be chosen about 6 months in advance to allow enough time for virus to be produced in large enough quantities.

The flu vaccine is effective if virus strains spread as predicted. Unfortunately, sometimes they don't. Still, it's worth getting the flu shot, imo.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/vaccine-selection.htm

 

[DEC-1982]

The flu vaccine is effective if virus strains spread as predicted. Unfortunately, sometimes they don't. Still, it's worth getting the flu shot, imo.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/vaccine-selection.htm

That's the point I was trying to make, that what I have been reading is the flu shot doesn't cover the current strain. More frequently in recent years. I don't know about this year (2017-2018).

On a slightly different but somewhat related track, apparently most Americans don't trust the medical profession.

"In 1966, more than three-fourths of Americans had great confidence in medical leaders; today, only 34 percent do. Compared with people in other developed countries, Americans are considerably less likely to trust doctors, and only a quarter express confidence in the health system."

"Mistrust can lead people to skip the flu shot".

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/upshot/do-you-trust-the-medical-profession.html

 

[Car-Guy]

On a slightly different but somewhat related track, apparently most Americans don't trust the medical profession.

"In 1966, more than three-fourths of Americans had great confidence in medical leaders; today, only 34 percent do. Compared with people in other developed countries, Americans are considerably less likely to trust doctors, and only a quarter express confidence in the health system."

"Mistrust can lead people to skip the flu shot".

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/upshot/do-you-trust-the-medical-profession.html

I don't distrust most medical professionals. If I run across one I don't like/trust, I'll move to another. Easy to do. HOWEVER, I don't trust the medical insurance companies and drug distributors. Possibly the biggest bunch of crooks in any business segment, IMO. Of all the things they care about, the customer is last. Moving from them is not as easy to do in many cases and I'm not sure if one is much better than another.

 

[StephieJean]

What I find interesting about this flu is I agree with the flu symptoms described in this stream, which is typically what occurs with the flu. What I do not understand is why people are dying of a pneumonia strain and the CDC is calling it the flu as well. Seems there is another strain of illness that is NOT the flu but a pneumonia strain that is deadly, NOT the flu. Just theorizing. oh, no shot no flu.

 

[Taxman59]

NPR interviewed a CDC representative who said that getting the flu shot every year will help build your immunity against all strains of the flu. A cumulative effect of the shots.

 

[tmm99]

Flu vaccines may not hit the jackpot every year, but vaccinations are free and safe (unless you are allergic to eggs), so what's the downside?


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[TromboneAl]

I got the flu (despite shot) on Dec 21, and I'm still recovering. Total exhaustion on Dec 22, slept all day, and understood how people can die of it.

I elected to not go to a doc (I was out of town, anyway) and get Tamiflu. I read that it would only reduce the time having the flu by one day. Now, I wonder whether it would have helped me recover faster.

The problem is a lingering cough that's only gradually getting better. I still have a few coughing fits each day.

I've observed that spending a day outdoors seems to make it worse, even if I don't exert myself much. My theory is that some allergens in the air exacerbate the coughing.

Next year I'm getting two shots! (jk)

 

[TromboneAl]

Sime interesting observations:

1. DW had symptoms a few days before I did, primarily coughing. It may have been coincidence, but it's likely that we both were hit with the same flu virus.

But her symptoms were much milder. If it weren't for me, I would have said she just had a cold.

My guess is that we both had the same flu, but her shot was more effective at limiting the symptoms. That is, her immune system worked better in conjunction with the shot than mine did.

2. My 29-year-old daughter and her fiance were bigly exposed to the flu while we were with them, but neither got the flu. They also hadn't had shots.

 

[tmm99]

Sime interesting observations:

1. DW had symptoms a few days before I did, primarily coughing. It may have been coincidence, but it's likely that we both were hit with the same flu virus.

But her symptoms were much milder. If it weren't for me, I would have said she just had a cold.

My guess is that we both had the same flu, but her shot was more effective at limiting the symptoms. That is, her immune system worked better in conjunction with the shot than mine did.

2. My 29-year-old daughter and her fiance were bigly exposed to the flu while we were with them, but neither got the flu. They also hadn't had shots.

I wonder if this all depends on what kind of flu and colds we have been exposed in the past? Like with N1H1 that some older folks were already immune to? Depending upon which strains of flu you've been exposed to in the past, the way our body reacts to them should be different (and of course, how healthy your bodies are to start with, makes a difference too.)

Just rambling here.

 

[RAE]

I have always wondered how effective the flu shot is. I keep hearing that half the time it doesn't cover the current (year) strain of flu.

This morning's Detroit Free Press had an article on the flu, and included this interesting quote from an influenza expert:

Dr. Arnold Monto, M.D. – the dean of flu researchers in Michigan, a veteran since 1965 of doing such research at U-M – is less sanguine than he once was about the nation’s approach to flu prevention. This year's flu outbreak is pointing out a serious deficiency, he said, chiming in with what public health experts have widely said for the last month: that is, the nation’s state-of-the-art flu vaccines are doing a poor job of protecting Americans.
"We now know, the flu vaccine is just not as effective as it should be. It doesn't work particularly well for the kind (of influenza) we have now," he said. As the CDC and other health organizations have acknowledged, this year's flu vaccine was largely unable to target what became the predominant flu strain, called H3N2.
In reviewing his half-century-plus of flu research, Monto said he and other researchers nationwide have come to a startling conclusion: They may need to start over.
"I think you'll see, probably in a few months" that leaders of the federal government's main medical think tank -- the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, MD -- "will be asking Congress for money" to develop an entirely new flu vaccine, Monto said.

 

[Meadbh]

NPR interviewed a CDC representative who said that getting the flu shot every year will help build your immunity against all strains of the flu. A cumulative effect of the shots.

That makes sense, because the flu shot you had five years ago may still be providing immunity against a virus that returns this year.

Do you have a link to the interview?

 

[Brat]

Another possibility is that many of us older adults received a pneumonia vaccine within the last couple years. What killed my neighbor was the flu associated pneumonia. I do not know if she received the pneumonia vaccine and am reluctant to ask her son.

 

[Meadbh]

Another possibility is that many of us older adults received a pneumonia vaccine within the last couple years. What killed my neighbor was the flu associated pneumonia. I do not know if she received the pneumonia vaccine and am reluctant to ask her son.

Just for clarification: pneumonia is infection of the lung(s). It can be viral (most common), bacterial (common) or even fungal (rare). The influenza virus, like many other viruses, can cause pneumonia all by itself. And pneumonia due to the influenza virus can be fatal.

The “pneumonia vaccine” you refer to is pneumococcal vaccine, which protects against infection with pneumococcus, a bacterium that commonly causes pneumonia independently of the flu. Sometimes, other bacteria, for which there is no vaccine, also cause bacterial pneumonia.

When a person who has the flu develops pneumonia, it may simply be an extension of the viral infection into the lung(s). Sometimes, the mucus and airway swelling associated with a viral bronchitis can cause blockage of copious secretions, with collapse of the alveoli (air sacs) in one or more areas of the lungs. The air sacs become inflected and inflamed by the virus. This is viral pneumonia. Pneumococcal vaccine won’t prevent it, and antibiotics won’t treat it.

Some flu patients, who happen to have bacteria within their lungs, will develop secondary bacterial pneumonia when their airways are swollen and blocked. These people will benefit from antibiotics.

Distinguishing viral and secondary bacterial pneumonia can be confusing, since symptoms are common to both. The severity and timing of the symptoms, the X-ray findings, and the white blood cell profile may help. If there is sputum production (which often begins as the airways are beginning to open up), sputum can be analyzed for bacteria in the lab.

 

[aja8888]

We live in a 55+ community and no one I know in the community has gotten the flu. I don't know how many people have gotten the shot though.

The last time I got the flu was in the late 1980's and it was about two days after I got my flu shot. It was the worst deal I have ever had in terms of sick and feeling bad. Since then, I have not gotten the shot and have not gotten the flu. Maybe I am lucky or it's right around the corner.

I'll hold my ground and not get the shot. Maybe I am crazy, but I'll take my chances.

 

[LOL!]

I wonder if TromboneAl has a 2nd infection caught from being weakened by his flu infection. I know that I had bronchitis caused by bacteria years ago after having a viral infection a couple weeks before.

Even though I had it checked out after too much suffering, I got the right diagnose and antibiotics which cleared me right up.

 

[ejman]

This is the first year in several I haven't had the flu shot. (also the first year I haven't had even a mild case of the flu - so far) I had read that the vaccine was particularly ineffective this year and when the nurse at my clinic asked me about getting the shot I told her about my concerns about its ineffectiveness and she told me that she had checked with the doctors at the clinic who had told her that it was so marginally effective this year that they didn't feel it was necessary to pressure patients to get it this year. Confusing.

 

[sweetana3]

I get the flu shot every year because of asthma. Got the flu two weeks ago. Barely remember the first three days. Thankfully I had a thermometer and an oximeter at home to track the disease and a husband to watch over me. Temp shot up to 102. Could not get off the sofa except for the bathroom. Lost 6 pounds. Oxygen saturation dipped to 88% and if it had gotten lower or temp went over 102 would have gone to ER. Upped all my medication for asthma and took a variety of simple otc medication for symptoms. Basically it had to run its course.

Then I got bronchitis which is as bad. Could barely sleep in any position due to wheezing and cough. I think I used up 2 boxes of tissue. It is gradually receding. But I can see how dangerous this is for anyone if the infection gets down in the lungs with pneumonia.

The strangest part was the awful lower back ache. I almost could not stand up due to the pain. As soon as the flu symptoms started to fade, the back ache went away.

 

[Grabberson]

In a related development, I wore my seat belt all last year but didn't have any accidents. Conclusion: last year's seat belt was effective at preventing accidents.

 

[RunningBum]

According to this poll, 11.7% of the responses got the flu.

If the respondent did get the flu shot, the chances they had the flu was 12.5%.
If the respondent did NOT get the flu shot, the chance they had the flu was 9.3%.

According to us, getting the shot does more harm than good.

Now, there's an obvious flaw in the methodology. The point of this post is to get your critical thinking skills going. Why would this unexpected result arise?

See my post #38 earlier in this thread. People who are less prone to get the flu for whatever reason (better health, not exposed as often to flu conditions, etc) tend not to get a shot.

 

[tmm99]

See my post #38 earlier in this thread. People who are less prone to get the flu for whatever reason (better health, not exposed as often to flu conditions, etc) tend not to get a shot.

That may very well be the reason why it looks like flu shots are giving the flu shot recipients the flu.

I never got flu shots until I turned 50.


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[Brat]

Just for clarification: pneumonia is infection of the lung(s). It can be viral (most common), bacterial (common) or even fungal (rare). The influenza virus, like many other viruses, can cause pneumonia all by itself. And pneumonia due to the influenza virus can be fatal.

The “pneumonia vaccine” you refer to is pneumococcal vaccine, which protects against infection with pneumococcus, a bacterium that commonly causes pneumonia independently of the flu. Sometimes, other bacteria, for which there is no vaccine, also cause bacterial pneumonia.

When a person who has the flu develops pneumonia, it may simply be an extension of the viral infection into the lung(s). Sometimes, the mucus and airway swelling associated with a viral bronchitis can cause blockage of copious secretions, with collapse of the alveoli (air sacs) in one or more areas of the lungs. The air sacs become inflected and inflamed by the virus. This is viral pneumonia. Pneumococcal vaccine won’t prevent it, and antibiotics won’t treat it.

Some flu patients, who happen to have bacteria within their lungs, will develop secondary bacterial pneumonia when their airways are swollen and blocked. These people will benefit from antibiotics.

Distinguishing viral and secondary bacterial pneumonia can be confusing, since symptoms are common to both. The severity and timing of the symptoms, the X-ray findings, and the white blood cell profile may help. If there is sputum production (which often begins as the airways are beginning to open up), sputum can be analyzed for bacteria in the lab.

Thanks for a great explanation.

The member of my family I worry about is my SIL who has advanced pulmonary fibrosis. I believe he is teaching online classes this term to minimize his chance of catching this flu. The kids, of course, could bring it home.

 

[harllee]

I woke up this morning with sore throat, coughing, runny nose, temperature of 101. (yes, I did have the flu shot). So I go to the doctor, have the rapid flu test (nose swab), comes back negative and the doc tells me I just have a cold. This seems a lot worse than the cold, I never run a temperature with a cold and I feel like I have been run over by a truck. I guess other than Tamiflu a cold would be treated about the same as the flu. But it feels a lot worse than a cold to me.

My question is what is the accuracy of the rapid flu test, does anyone have any knowledge on the rapid flu test? And does it really matter if I have a cold rather than the flu so far as treatment goes?

 

[DROPOUT]

I woke up this morning with sore throat, coughing, runny nose, temperature of 101. (yes, I did have the flu shot). So I go to the doctor, have the rapid flu test (nose swab), comes back negative and the doc tells me I just have a cold. This seems a lot worse than the cold, I never run a temperature with a cold and I feel like I have been run over by a truck. I guess other than Tamiflu a cold would be treated about the same as the flu. But it feels a lot worse than a cold to me.

My question is what is the accuracy of the rapid flu test, does anyone have any knowledge on the rapid flu test? And does it really matter if I have a cold rather than the flu so far as treatment goes?

Could be Strep

My wife, son, and myself all just had it. Low grade fever in the 99-101 range. It was rough, but I'm sure nowhere near as bad as the flu.