The power of sleep?

[a]

This sleep stuff is fascinating.

Quote from a doctor who uses the same sleep therapy on himself (bilevel PAP) that he prescribes to patients:

"P.S. Sorry for the long post; but it's not my fault, it's the bilevel. After 7 near perfect hours of sleep quality last night, I had to do something to burn up the energy."

What a wonderful feeling that must be.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

I am in the process of getting a CPAP machine. I have been through the two sessions of monitored sleep with and without a CPAP machine. I felt so wonderful waking after the session with the machine. My eyes were focused, my thoughts were clear and felt full of energy. Apparently I have had a few decades of sleep deprivation and really look forward to getting the machine. A friend of mine stated that getting the machine was the single best thing to improve his quality of life that he has ever done.

 

[a]

I felt so wonderful waking after the session with the machine.

Me too. It was truly a different state of being. I also can't wait to get it.

To pass the time I've been practicing mental rehearsal of going to sleep blissfully with the thing attached to my face.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

Me too. It was truly a different state of being. I also can't wait to get it.

To pass the time I've been practicing mental rehearsal of going to sleep blissfully with the thing attached to my face.

I also put myself into a sleep state of mind for both sessions. Talk about wired! Legs, chest, finger, head, nostrils all had things attached.

 

[a]

Sounds like you may be one of the lucky ones that acclimate quickly. Did you wake up many times during your titration night?

 

[grumpy]

I've had my CPAP for 3 years. In that time I have never been able to sleep through the whole night with it on. I sleep on my side. I have tried several different mask types from nasal pillows to full face masks. I generally fall asleep with the mask on around 11 pm. I usually wake between 2 am and 3 am with the mask so uncomfortable that I take it off for the rest of the night.

Even with this only partial use, I am not nearly as sleepy during the day as I was before getting the CPAP.

 

[Tyro]

I've been on a cpap for about 5 yrs (obstructive apnea). I was a stomach sleeper my whole life so acclimation was not easy for me. I had to relearn to sleep on my back -- on a foam wedge. I went through a period similar to Grumpy, of sleeping for a few hours, then tearing the thing off, but then the apnea would take over and I'd wake up gasping. It was several months before I could get through a whole night, and even then (now) I sometimes get sore spots on the bridge of my nose, columella, or parafiltrum.

I never did get any benefits of clarity or energy (wish I had!) Instead I wake up with my eyes plastered shut - a little dry (not from mask leakage), but not uncomfortably so -- not enough to need the gunk.

Tyro

 

[a]

You both deserve better results than your dedication has produced. grumpy, have you tried BiPAP?

Tyro - doesn't the fact that you are still tired in the daytime, mean that there is something disrupting your sleep besides lack of oxygen?

 

[Tyro]

Tyro - doesn't the fact that you are still tired in the daytime, mean that there is something disrupting your sleep besides lack of oxygen?

Yup.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

Sounds like you may be one of the lucky ones that acclimate quickly. Did you wake up many times during your titration night?

Once when I had to pee.

 

[a]

Yup.

You don't sound very interested in solving the problem. I guess you tried for 5 years and were frustrated.

Once when I had to pee.

Yep, you're fortunate. I bet you also had few spontaneous arousals.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

You don't sound very interested in solving the problem. I guess you tried for 5 years and were frustrated.

Yep, you're fortunate. I bet you also had few spontaneous arousals.

Probably did. The doctor showed the two sessions results. Without the mask I had breathing events 17 times per unit time (can't remember if it was per minute or per hour). Without the mask I stayed in N2 & N3 sleep most of the night with no REM sleep unitil the last two hours when I had 1 1/2 hours of REM sleep which is much longer than normal. They said I probably got so exhausted that I had to.

With the mask I had 3-4 cycles of the normal sequence of N1 to N2 to N3 to normal durations of REM sleep. Going from REM sleep back to N1 are times of likely arousal.

I hope I adapt long term a lot better than the other two posters. The doctor did say that there is a significant fraction of people who can never adapt to the machine no matter what.

 

[a]

Starting to wonder if I may be like Tyro. After several days on CPAP, I feel worse, though I don't blame the machine. I think rather that my airway constriction issues were not the whole story.

As before getting the machine, I wake up many times during the night. The book Sound Sleep, Sound Mind says that this behavior may be due to a lack of balance in my brain's use of "Thoughts, Feelings, and Images." It sounds hokey, but someone did comment once that I'm not very observant, which this book echoes as a neglect of the Imagery aspect of my brain.

--

edit: This is embarrassing, but I just re-found a thread from a year ago talking about insomnia, where ItDontMeanAThing's first post was talking about using imagery to help fall asleep! Even more embarrassing, I responded a bunch of times saying that it didn't work for me, and here I am trying it again apparently having completely forgotten. I apologize.

I also sympathize more with SteveR's condition because I now have more of an inkling of the struggle he deals with of his body not letting him get the sleep he feels he should.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

Update: I have had my CPAP machine for a couple of weeks. It took about a week to get used to the mask and I am still adapting. I seem to sleep for about 2 hours then wake up. I generally go right back to sleep. I suspect the 2 hour point is the completion of a sleep cycle. Even with this, I feel more rested and have less coughing in the mornings. My eyesight has improved as well.

I decided to take a nap the other day without the mask. I woke up after 10 minutes gasping for air. I put on the mask and ended up napping for 2 hours.

 

[JakeBrake]

I've been on Bipap since January 2012. I have been using it religiously every night. I've only missed my four hours on one night and I don't know what happened then. Honestly, I can't tell the difference. I was not aware that I had a sleep problem before the doctors told me. An interesting fact about my sleep clinic is that it's several floors above the ER entrance of a major hospital. So I could listen to the incoming ambulance sirens all night long. I live in the country where the only sounds at night are the night critters.

My problem was atrial fibrilation. At my heart clinic a sleep study is part of the standard work up for people with atrial fibrilation. The sleep study concluded that I had sleep apnea and I have now been on Bipap since January.

Incidentally, my A-fib has been cured (for now) by means of a catheter ablation and meds.

 

[Tyro]

Starting to wonder if I may be like Tyro. After several days on CPAP, I feel worse, though I don't blame the machine. I think rather that my airway constriction issues were not the whole story.

Bingo. I don't feel worse with the machine; I just don't get any increase in clarity or energy, and there are other issues.

 

[a]

It's been almost three weeks since starting CPAP. I'm feeling slightly better, but I've been trying everything I can think of: diet, meditation, books on insomnia, melatonin, and more.

The most recent idea is that back pain may be disrupting my sleep. I never paid attention to it before, but I do wake up with back pain. I tested sleeping on memory foam a couple nights: first night was noticeably better, second night woke up with pain again. Last night I tried painkillers on my old bed; didn't help. Tonight I'm going to pick up a memory foam topper and sleep with a pillow under my knees.

 

[Tyro]

The most recent idea is that back pain may be disrupting my sleep.

Depending on the level of pain, some folks find low-dose amitriptyline helpful for that.

 

[a]

The day before my evaluative sleep study I wrote in my journal "Hope i dont have alpha intrusion." Alpha intrusion is my way of describing unknown-cause disrupted sleep - some people don't respond to cpap and I felt confident that as long as I was one of the responders, I'd be happy living with the machine.

Well, I do have something that basically amounts to alpha intrusion. That is, CPAP doesn't help much at all. The good part is that there ARE known things that often work. The bad part is that for me one of them is surgery. A very serious surgery that involves cutting your jaw into pieces, pulling the pieces apart, and bolting them back together. So here I am writing down now (although the surgery won't be for many months at the earliest) "Hope I'm not one of the 5-10% that don't respond well to the surgery."

 

[Mulligan]

The day before my evaluative sleep study I wrote in my journal "Hope i dont have alpha intrusion." Alpha intrusion is my way of describing unknown-cause disrupted sleep - some people don't respond to cpap and I felt confident that as long as I was one of the responders, I'd be happy living with the machine.

Well, I do have something that basically amounts to alpha intrusion. That is, CPAP doesn't help much at all. The good part is that there ARE known things that often work. The bad part is that for me one of them is surgery. A very serious surgery that involves cutting your jaw into pieces, pulling the pieces apart, and bolting them back together. So here I am writing down now (although the surgery won't be for many months at the earliest) "Hope I'm not one of the 5-10% that don't respond well to the surgery."

Omg... I would literally have to be a walking zombie to even listen to that surgery conversation. I sleep maybe 4 hours a night solid, then flop around the other 3-4 but I enjoy dozing so I am not too frustrated. I am not usually tired at all and rarely nap so I guess I am getting enough. No way would I be brave enough to undergo that surgery.

 

[Meadbh]

The day before my evaluative sleep study I wrote in my journal "Hope i dont have alpha intrusion." Alpha intrusion is my way of describing unknown-cause disrupted sleep - some people don't respond to cpap and I felt confident that as long as I was one of the responders, I'd be happy living with the machine.

Well, I do have something that basically amounts to alpha intrusion. That is, CPAP doesn't help much at all. The good part is that there ARE known things that often work. The bad part is that for me one of them is surgery. A very serious surgery that involves cutting your jaw into pieces, pulling the pieces apart, and bolting them back together. So here I am writing down now (although the surgery won't be for many months at the earliest) "Hope I'm not one of the 5-10% that don't respond well to the surgery."

Before you consider surgery, ask for a trial of an oral appliance. Here is a study from Brazil showing that it helped over half the patients, whether they had moderate or severe obstuctive sleep apnea.

Titratable mandibular repositioner appliances for obstructive sleep apnea syndrome: are they an option? - Springer

 

[Nemo2]

A very serious surgery that involves cutting your jaw into pieces, pulling the pieces apart, and bolting them back together. So here I am writing down now (although the surgery won't be for many months at the earliest) "Hope I'm not one of the 5-10% that don't respond well to the surgery."

Respond well to the surgery? I didn't even respond well to reading about it!

 

[a]

Thanks for the caution and suggestions. I'll definitely consider the oral appliance as well as give the whole idea another round of due diligence (not my first).

 

[Brett_Cameron]

CPAP update: after several months of use, I have adapted well to sleeping with the device. I seldom wake up after 2 hours anymore. I feel much more rested when I get up. I consider myself fortunate.

 

[prof12]

Using a CPAP is wonderful. I suffered, as did my DW, because of horrible snoring and failure to enter into deep sleep. I was so tired and sleep deprived that I got into a one-car, nearly fatal wreck. I'm on my 4th machine, having gotten the 1st model in 1995. And, believe me, each model of machine and each mask, has improved and become more quiet and the newer masks are much more user-friendly and comfortable. I will also tell you that having a humidifier on the CPAP is a must, as the constant stream of blowing air will dry out your throat and nasal passages. But users beware: you must keep your mask and hose scrupulously clean. I erred on this a bit, and ended up with a terrible nasal infection that plagued me, on & off, for a year. But that CPAP has been a life-saver and a godsend.
Prof12