Not every kid is an engineer. What do we do about the others?

[GravitySucks]

they go to law or business school

The Great Recession tanked those fields. So many 30 year olds decided to hide out in MBA and Law Schools that there is a glut now. They're now the 40 year olds that like the loan forgiveness plans being floated now.

 

[aja8888]

And from today's WSJ:

"Typical Worker’s Pay Nears $200,000 at Oil Refiner"

"...Houston-based Phillips 66 paid its median worker $196,407, the highest of any company in the sector. Phillips was followed by Anadarko Petroleum Corp. APC -0.11% at $183,445. Oil giant Exxon Mobil, which has roughly 72,600 employees, according to its latest proxy, had the third-highest median worker pay with $171,375"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/typical-workers-pay-nears-200-000-at-oil-refiner-11556103600?mod=rsswn

Shows that you do not need a degree to earn good wages, just the willingness to work hard and take opportunities when/where they arise.

Petroleum engineers I have met were making $200K+ at only a few years out of college. As Big Hitter said, lots of graduate engineers and geologists in those oil companies who get paid a lot to find the oil.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Petroleum engineers I have met were making $200K+ at only a few years out of college. As Big Hitter said, lots of graduate engineers and geologists in those oil companies who get paid a lot to find the oil.

plus the $200K number may include a benefits load, which could be 20 to 40% of pay

I didn't read the proxy which might specify the methodology

 

[rpguy4]

Are there Vocational Schools around anymore ? The school system I went to growing up in Ohio, had a Vocational School. I recall, you could elect to spend the last 2 years of high school, learning a trade in the Vocational School, and still graduate with a diploma.

 

[big-papa]

Are there Vocational Schools around anymore ? The school system I went to growing up in Ohio, had a Vocational School. I recall, you could elect to spend the last 2 years of high school, learning a trade in the Vocational School, and still graduate with a diploma.

Here where I live, the local community college fills that role, as well as a cheap way to take the first year-to-two years of courses before transferring to a traditional 4 year university.

 

[Winemaker]

One of my tenants owns a high end nail salon and has another girl helping her. Although she has expenses and overhead, she charges $65 and usually takes an hour/client. She did go to beautician school as a hair dresser, but makes more money doing nails.

 

[Brat]

Speaking of 'whatever floats your boat', California Maritime Acadamy has a Facilities Engineer major. A Maritime Engineer is essentially a power plant engineer on a ship. This type of engineering is a high level of operating engineer. This school is not one for flakes: their acceptance rate is 66%, students live on campus, wear a uniform and must get up every morning (sleeping in is for weekends). All of the Engineer students had job offers with family-level pay by the end of their sophomore year.

I know the school because my son and his wife are graduates.

 

[dirtbiker]

I have four kids, two of them being teenagers. My 14 year old is crazy smart, especially in math, science, and computers. He wants to go for computer engineering. Okay, cool. That'll work out just fine!

My 16 year old does okay in school, but has no real academic interests. He goes to vo-tech for welding and is in 10th grade. He is fantastic at this, he's way ahead of his peers, he works at it very hard, and is really excelling. It's not the path I had imagined for him (I'm a doctor and my wife is a college professor), but he's happy doing it, and has plans to eventually open up his own business, and we support him in it. We do have one stipulation, and that is that he must go and get a four year degree, which he's agreed to, even though it will keep him from full time employment (and earnings) for four years.

I know a lot may disagree with this, but we are requiring this for a few reasons (assuming he doesn't change his mind and remind me that he is an adult at that time and can make his own decisions). First, having a degree will give him competitive advantage for promotions into supervisor/management spots. Second, if he's going to open his own business, having a working knowledge of business will be a huge plus for him. Third, if he gets injured and can't do physical work, he'll have a degree as a backup. Fourth, I feel that the education one receives in college is a valuable experience that helps broaden an individual. I used to hate all the stupid liberal arts crap I had to take while I was doing my undergrad, however, looking back on it, learning some of the things I did helped make me a more well-rounded person (and a lot of it was just plain dumb. lol).

 

[big-papa]

Speaking of 'whatever floats your boat', California Maritime Acadamy has a Facilities Engineer major. A Maritime Engineer is essentially a power plant engineer on a ship. This type of engineering is a high level of operating engineer. This school is not one for flakes: their acceptance rate is 66%, students live on campus, wear a uniform and must get up every morning (sleeping in is for weekends). All of the Engineer students had job offers with family-level pay by the end of their sophomore year.

I know the school because my son and his wife are graduates.

So that's where Scotty from the Enterprise went to school.

 

[Walt34]

Are there Vocational Schools around anymore ?

Sure, lots of them. Close to home here is Blue Ridge Technical and Community College, which offers AA degrees in traditional fields as well as degrees and/or certifications, such as robotics maintenance, that allow someone to "bootstrap" themselves to better paying jobs. A few years ago the local power company donated a brand new bucket truck to the school for the lineman's curriculum. People graduating from that are all but guaranteed a job upon completion. Power companies are hurting bad for those folks and the pay scales show it.

Another one is James Rumsey Technical Institute which offers classes in everything from truck driving to surgical technology (admittedly I'm a little fuzzy on exactly what that is but the link is to the curriculum).

So sure, there is lots of hope and opportunity for those who for whatever reason don't fit the four-year-degree mold.

 

[brucethebroker]

Our city has an area wide (2 counties/10 high schools) alternative career program. Includes auto repair, chef school, construction trades, HVAC, Health & Dental & Vet sciences, computers, welding and cosmetology, to name a few. Kids attend 1/2 day of regular HS courses and are bused to the career center for the other 3 hrs. Very popular program located on a quiet campus.

 

[aja8888]

Here's a list of 4 year technical high schools in Connecticut. I was a 1961 graduate of Kaynor Tech (Mechanical drafting).

Then I worked for a while, went to war, came back and went to college. Many trades are taught in these schools for young men and women.

Connecticut Technical Education and Career System

Superintendent Mr. Jeffrey Wihbey
School District type Vocational/Public-State Run
Religious affiliation None
Location Connecticut, USA
Number of Schools 18
Home Page Home | CT Technical High School System

The state of Connecticut funds and operates the Connecticut Technical High School System (CTHSS), also known as the Connecticut Technical Education and Career System (CTECS). It is a statewide system of 17 diploma-granting technical high schools, and one technical education center, serving approximately 10,200 full-time high school students with comprehensive education, and training in 38 occupational areas.

The Connecticut Technical High School System is made up of 17 degree-granting technical high schools, with several satellite campuses and one technical education center:[1]

Henry Abbott Technical High School
Bristol Technical Education Center
Bullard Havens Technical High School
Howell Cheney Technical High School
Connecticut Aero Tech Center
H. H. Ellis Technical High School
E. C. Goodwin Technical High School
Ella T. Grasso Southeastern Technical High School
W.F. Kaynor Technical High School
Norwich Technical High School
Emmett O'Brien Technical High School
Platt Technical High School
A.I. Prince Technical High School
Stratford School for Aviation Maintenance Technicians
Vinal Technical High School
Eli Whitney Technical High School
H.C. Wilcox Technical High School
Windham Technical High School
Oliver Wolcott Technical High School
J. M. Wright Technical High School[1])

 

[Jeffman52]

Graduated near bottom of my class in college due to boredom and too much of a social life. Was a mid level manager at Megacorp for approx 30 years, lived below my means, invested heavily in market for last 30 years, FIRE'd last year, no regrets and not looking back.

Took college classes but also technical classes. Started at the bottom a number of times but overall made my way up the Megacorp ladder as well. Ready to FIRE in the next couple of years.

You absolutely dont NEED college to do well for yourself. However it can be beneficial to get doors opened that wont otherwise open.

 

[fasteddie911]

Interesting topic I've been thinking a lot about lately. I grew up going to the "best" schools; private high school and "best" college, no matter the cost. I feel like this was the thinking in a lot my peers families and that you need a college education, yet career guidance or talking about majors was pretty limited. My high school was well-regarded and everyone went to college, but I now realize they pushed college without much career guidance. I'm not sure if they were just blindly following the mantra of going to college or they focused on college to appease parents and their rep. Fortunately, my parents nudged me towards a career field, which I ended up going into and glad I did. However, many classmates and even my spouse, who had a similar upbringing, kind of floundered about after college not knowing what to do. Many of them go back to grad school or eventually figure something out. But now I realize how unguided we all were at that age and I've come to question the current system we have. I don't see much value in a lot of classes I was required to take in undergrad, or even hs, and it hasn't added much to my life/career since. Not saying those subjects aren't important, but I feel like I could have, and actually have learned more about those topics on my own outside a classroom.

I share the same sentiments as those here. College isn't for everyone and is not necessarily the best approach, one can make good money with CC or an associates, not just trades, but healthcare, air traffic controller, etc. In my young life, between myself and spouse (who has worked at a couple universities) I've seen little to convince me that expensive schools are worth it. Most folks who went to expensive schools have careers and are no better off than if they had gone to a cheap school. I think the college experience (socially, intellectually, etc.) is over-hyped. And that one should have some career direction in mind, something they'll at least be good at and won't hate. Even many of my STEM friends haven't necessarily have the good life or career, so it's not necessarily the answer either. College has just been a blip on my radar of life, and while it seemed important at the time, I've learned and grown so much more outside of college than inside.

 

[pjigar]

I think the college experience (socially, intellectually, etc.) is over-hyped. And that one should have some career direction in mind, something they'll at least be good at and won't hate. Even many of my STEM friends haven't necessarily have the good life or career, so it's not necessarily the answer either.

Don't take this personally but this is how my 10-15 year younger self used to think! My current thinking has changed and I do believe that collage [-]education[/-] experience has helped me immensely. You will realize that everything snow balls and you don't realize the impact until you actually see the snowball.

 

[sengsational]

It's near impossible to look back at some big life decision and say it wasn't worth it, or that you'd have it any other way. Even people in accidents resulting in loss of use of their limbs say they wouldn't change anything (if you believe content of TED talks).



That being said, there was a study, which I didn't look-up, but the gist was if you hung out with "better people" than you would have by going to college, then career income was improved. Here is a post with more.

 

[redduck]

... and I do believe that collage [-]education[/-] experience has helped me immensely.

Well, I don't know if my collage experience was much help to me, but I do remember always looking forward to sniffing the glue.

 

[eroscott]

I was searching for something completely unrelated and ran across this thread. A friend has a young adult kid searching for the right thing after a year in college.

I passed this on and thought it may help some readers with a current need for a kid/niece/nephew/etc.

a) Here is one site that we got from my sons college. It seemed very good. My wife, son, and I all took it to see what it was like.
https://www.mynextmove.org/explore/ip

b) Also my son went to this career testing place in <nearby suburb> when he was in high school as well as a free follow up when we was struggling with choice during college. They were was very very helpful.

There is an aptitude test they give that provides direction and insight to careers that would fit. "The three main variables predicting career satisfaction are… Aptitude + Interest + Personality = Career Success."
...
A Division of The Ball Foundation

 

[fasteddie911]

Don't take this personally but this is how my 10-15 year younger self used to think! My current thinking has changed and I do believe that collage [-]education[/-] experience has helped me immensely. You will realize that everything snow balls and you don't realize the impact until you actually see the snowball.

Not personal at all. How do you feel your college experience has helped you and what changed your perspective from 10-15yrs ago? I may very well change my tune as I get older.

 

[pjigar]

Not personal at all. How do you feel your college experience has helped you and what changed your perspective from 10-15yrs ago? I may very well change my tune as I get older.

10-15 years ago, I felt that I learned lot of unnecessary subjects and spent way too much time on crazy projects that had no real use.
As I progressed through my career, over last couple of decades, I realized that the perspectives and the outlooks those subjects/activities provided came in very handy. They also gave me confidence to dive into unfamiliar work areas and succeed because that's essentially what I did when I was in college. In short, all the learning I did through the college taught me that I can learn and excel at anything.

Side story: I got acquainted with a peer of my ex-boss and talked about all kinds of new projects I did, on and off work. He joined a new company few years back. He hired me last year mainly because he knows I can learn and excel anything. He actually told me the reason he hired me.

 

[Stonewalker]

In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

Same here. I passed the EIT, but refused the PE. Too many pitfalls with that route, at least in the politics of the company I worked for.

 

[DFDubb]

10-15 years ago, I felt that I learned lot of unnecessary subjects and spent way too much time on crazy projects that had no real use.
As I progressed through my career, over last couple of decades, I realized that the perspectives and the outlooks those subjects/activities provided came in very handy. They also gave me confidence to dive into unfamiliar work areas and succeed because that's essentially what I did when I was in collage. In short, all the learning I did through the collage taught me that I can learn and excel at anything.

Side story: I got acquainted with a peer of my ex-boss and talked about all kinds of new projects I did, on and off work. He joined a new company few years back. He hired me last year mainly because he knows I can learn and excel anything. He actually told me the reason he hired me.

I guess you skipped the English classes? You've misspelled college twice now.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I guess you skipped the English classes? You've misspelled college twice now.

that's okay, he can learn and excel at anything. I'm confident he will figure this out.

 

[Koolau]

Heh, heh, I looked into engineering. My uncle (who was semi-famous at the time in engineering) encouraged me to go into engineering. I decided I wasn't smart enough so I went into Chemistry. Worked for me. Worked well, actually, though I never rose above staff/supervisory level - never wanted to.

I DO think folks should understand their j*b (or do you say c*reer) opportunities based on the degree they seek. Then they will not be surprised when their ba in philosophy or drama doesn't pay the bills. I know it's "different" now than it was when I went to university (it used to be affordable, of course). Now kids expect to be "fulfilled" by their university experience. I WAS fulfilled by my univ. experience, BUT that's not what I went for. I went to be able to get a real j*b!

Honestly, I wonder why there is such a clamor for university (college) degrees. It USED to be a ticket to a good j*b. Now, it's more like a HS diploma was back in my day. If I were advising a youngster these days, I'd suggest at least LOOKING into a trade (folks have mentioned plumbing, etc.) Anything that EVERYBODY needs should be at least a clue as to what might pay the bills in the future (unless, of course, you want to be a college professor - now there's a gig that's more or less guaranteed to keep you in the chips, heh, heh.) Maybe a loan officer for kids trying to pay for college, heh, heh. But I digress, so YMMV.

 

[dirtbiker]

10-15 years ago, I felt that I learned lot of unnecessary subjects and spent way too much time on crazy projects that had no real use.
As I progressed through my career, over last couple of decades, I realized that the perspectives and the outlooks those subjects/activities provided came in very handy. They also gave me confidence to dive into unfamiliar work areas and succeed because that's essentially what I did when I was in collage. In short, all the learning I did through the collage taught me that I can learn and excel at anything.

Side story: I got acquainted with a peer of my ex-boss and talked about all kinds of new projects I did, on and off work. He joined a new company few years back. He hired me last year mainly because he knows I can learn and excel anything. He actually told me the reason he hired me.

If only they taught you how to spell college.