Kids or Not?

[haha]

A 33 yo son. Didn´t expect him. Genius Doc said I wouldn´t be able to have children (I couldn´t care less) a couple months prior to our marriage. When I told my soon- to- be wife she was glad of the news.Both of us came from large families and, maybe because of that weren´t much interested in kids. Neither of us were thrilled when told that she was pregnant, quite the opposite
.
She died 13 years ago. Never got along with son. Plenty of times I was in the middle of their arguments or disagreements. Sometines we even blamed him for some of OUR fights. It was very unfair.

In the course of recent years (since her mother died?) I´ve become aware that I´m truly glad I´ve had him, with whom I´ve really got along fine.

My second wife likes him a lot, even though she says that he is a 33 yo spolled brat.

But like some people here, I like dogs better than kids. I never stop to pay attention to kids with the same enthusiasm I do with dogs.

Thanks Vicente, this is a level of frankness that many of us Americans would avoid like the plague. I am so glad that things are now happy between you and son, and also between your wife and son.

Ha

 

[Khan]

If you think about the dynamics of FIRE, it's not surprising. Given what it takes to get there, it's natural that we'd be overrepresented by [-]cheapskates[/-] LBYMers, people without children (who can save for retirement instead of college), and folks in the public sector. All of these groups are more likely to be able to FIRE sooner. No doubt we have some here who hit the "trifecta" and are in all three of these groups. That combination would more or less be the early retirement version of a winning lottery ticket.

All three.

 

[Sue J]

We started out wanting 4 kids but stopped at 2 sons. I just felt like we were done. They are now 23 and 26, great guys, very different from each other but very close.

I was raised thinking that of course you have kids, it was expected. So just to be open minded I tried leaving it undecided and even considered staying child-free. When my older sister had her kids the urge hit me hard and I knew I wanted to be a parent.

For us it was the best thing we ever did. I understand couples or singles who just don't feel the need to have a family. It changes everything, forever.

 

[LOL!]

Parents need not save for college for their kids. So parents can still (a) be LBYMers, (b) have children (who can save for retirement instead of college), and work in the public sector.

The poll is about even between folks with kids and folks without kids. It seems that FIRE is not as dependent on this issue as some would have us believe.

When I'm feeling a little more mean, I might start a poll about who is gonna change our diapers when we get older.

 

[fisherman]

Father of three here. two we still have.

I certainly agree that kids are not for everyone and would not want to suggest otherwise. We waited perhaps too long to have kids but it gave us time to experience life without them to make sure. We were married 12 years without kids.

We are currently on day 29 of a West camping trip. The other night at the campground pool there was a couple that left the minute we got there and were mumbling about d*mn kids. Not ours but others in the pool. My oldest ask me why some people do not like kids when they were kids at one time themselves. A good question from a kid. I used answers from this forum to explain it and to reinforce that either choice is certainly correct.

 

[youbet]

When I'm feeling a little more mean, I might start a poll about who is gonna change our diapers when we get older.

Wouldn't the folks without kids simply pay for those services and have them administered by a professional guardian/advocate? The financial advantage of being childless is so great (widely mentioned on this forum) that having a mountain of money to pay for advocacy and care during your elder years should be no issue....... Unless perhaps you blew the money you saved by not raising a family. In that case, you should wallow in your own excrement, no?

I don't know anyone without kids and is FIRE'd that can't afford to pay BIG BUX for professional eldercare.

 

[bbbamI]

There is no way I would want a child of mine to take care of me when I can't take care of myself.

Besides...there's no guarantee an adult child would want or be able to do those things.

 

[youbet]

There is no way I would want a child of mine to take care of me when I can't take care of myself.

Besides...there's no guarantee an adult child would want or be able to do those things.

There is an important difference between having a child care for you and having a child advocate for you.

What I'm counting on is that my son, a young man of excellent character, be my advocate. DW and I are self-insured for LTC. DS knows I'd prefer my attendents to be attractive, young females wearing French maid outfits and will make the arrangements if the time comes I can't.

If the time comes when I'd trust a professional advocate to look out for me more than I'd trust DS, certainly not the case currently, I'll hire a professional and set up the appropriate trusts.

I hope I'm right about this. In our extended family, and in our inner circle of friends, there is a strong track record of kids being the best advocates for their elderly parents. I know that history is probably influencing me. But, your have to put your trust somewhere.

 

[bbbamI]

There is an important difference between having a child care for you and having a child advocate for you.

Absolutely. I should have been more descriptive in my post...I meant feeding and bathing me.

What I'm counting on is that my son, a young man of excellent character, be my advocate. DW and I are self-insured for LTC. DS knows I'd prefer my attendents to be attractive, young females wearing French maid outfits and will make the arrangements if the time comes I can't.

Sounds like you've got it [-]maid[/-] made!

If the time comes when I'd trust a professional advocate to look out for me more than I'd trust DS, certainly not the case currently, I'll hire a professional and set up the appropriate trusts.

We have a niece and nephew to depend on regarding financial purposes. We'll see how things play out as the years go by.

I hope I'm right about this. In our extended family, and in our inner circle of friends, there is a strong track record of kids being the best advocates for their elderly parents. I know that history is probably influencing me. But, your have to put your trust somewhere.

Sure...you do have to put your trust somewhere, otherwise life would be pretty miserable.

Here's to all of us having someone to trust when we need them the most.

 

[LOL!]

Rather than staying off topic, I started a new thread:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/health-care-advocate-in-old-age-50876.html

 

[MikeD]

I never had the slightest desire to have children. I have never stopped in mid-action and said to myself, "Wouldn't this be better if I had kids?" I have thought that I was glad that I didn't have kids many times. I had a nice dog (my dear Emily, the black lab, passed away last year (I haven't been the same since)) who was, of course, totally dependent on us. We structured our lives and vacations around her existence. It never bothered us for a minute. We loved that dog with all our hearts. I love dogs and do not like kids. I brighten up in the presence of a dog and when a kid finally leaves the room.

Mike D.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I never had the slightest desire to have children. I have never stopped in mid-action and said to myself, "Wouldn't this be better if I had kids?" I have thought that I was glad that I didn't have kids many times. I had a nice dog (my dear Emily, the black lab, passed away last year (I haven't been the same since)) who was, of course, totally dependent on us. We structured our lives and vacations around her existence. It never bothered us for a minute. We loved that dog with all our hearts. I love dogs and do not like kids. I brighten up in the presence of a dog and when a kid finally leaves the room.

Mike D.

+1. I endure children and love dogs. We run our lives around our animals. And our lives are good indeed. Another dog, perhaps, for you?

 

[vicente solano]

There is no way I would want a child of mine to take care of me when I can't take care of myself.

Besides...there's no guarantee an adult child would want or be able to do those things.

Exactly my opinion.

 

[Gumby]

I am hopeful that massive consumption of bacon will allow me to avoid the issue.

 

[aaronc879]

No kids. No plans to have any but i'm only 30 so who knows. I sometimes feel bad for my parents since neither I nor my brother(32) have kids or plan to have kids so they will never be grandparents. I don't feel bad enough though to go make sure I have kids. Just never felt a need or a want to be a parent.

 

[Emeritus]

Two girls. Both are intelligent and athletic. Older one captained the university figure skating team before starting on a Ph. D in Molecular biology. Younger one captained the University ice Hockey team before studying law. Each has an SO who is an engineer.

 

[HFWR]

Kindergarten report card: "Does not work and play well with others."

+1

I have a son, 29yo. If marriage #1 had been [-]much[/-] better, might have even had another kiddo.

Wouldn't give him back, but am glad he is on his own. Love dogs and cats, too, but don't have any.

I get sensory overload when I don't have enough alone time...

 

[MikeD]

+1. I endure children and love dogs. We run our lives around our animals. And our lives are good indeed. Another dog, perhaps, for you?

I immediately wanted another but my wife said no as it was too much pain when they leave. After a year of waiting, I am agreeing now. I still *really* miss Emily Ann.

Mike D.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Mike, all our relationships are like that, though. You just hope the pleasure of their company was worth it.
On a major thread hijack (my specialty), I was thinking about your feelings and those of many I've spoken to over the years who can't bear to replace a beloved animal. I was thinking that the older we get, the narrower our worldview and social circle can become, through distance or inattention. It just becomes too much trouble, somehow.

My parents used to have tons of friends, threw wonderful parties, and went out all the time. In the past year, their world has narrowed to just the two of them. They are bitter and angry much of the time and no one really wants to be around them. I just wonder which came first, the bitterness or the lack of close relationships.

This isn't any sort of relationship to what you were saying, except that they said rather bitterly that they don't want to go through the sadness of losing animals any more, either. I think they would benefit greatly from even that interaction with another sentient being, but don't see it happening.

Hmmm....okay, that is all the musing I can manage for Monday morning. But, please consider another pet--there is one out there that needs you, I promise! Maybe even two!

 

[Lakedog]

Hmmm....okay, that is all the musing I can manage for Monday morning. But, please consider another pet--there is one out there that needs you, I promise! Maybe even two!

I felt quite similar to Mike after losing my previous lab but eventually changed my mind -- I decided to adopt an adult lab that needed a good home. I went almost two years without but so glad I found another that is a great fit for my lifestyle.

 

[HFWR]

My parents used to have tons of friends, threw wonderful parties, and went out all the time. In the past year, their world has narrowed to just the two of them. They are bitter and angry much of the time and no one really wants to be around them. I just wonder which came first, the bitterness or the lack of close relationships.

I've been through several spells of this over the past 30 years. When I started a Megaconglomocorp, I made lots of new friends, many of them single guys just out of school. As time went on, some got married, some moved to other companies, and stuff happened. Or, I'd have a girlfriend, and get to know her group, then the relationship would end, and a block of "friends" would disappear. Of course, being INTJ, I'm pretty good at keeping myself entertained, but it's still nice to have a gang to hang with, have dinner with, go to movies and concerts with, and it does take an effort to keep old friendships going, and even more effort to find new friends.

 

[Nords]

In the past year, their world has narrowed to just the two of them. They are bitter and angry much of the time and no one really wants to be around them. I just wonder which came first, the bitterness or the lack of close relationships.
This isn't any sort of relationship to what you were saying, except that they said rather bitterly that they don't want to go through the sadness of losing animals any more, either. I think they would benefit greatly from even that interaction with another sentient being, but don't see it happening.

Hunh, I thought you were talking about my parents-in-law. Perhaps we should get together and throw the foursome a party...

 

[JonnyM]

We would also count ourselves as living around and for our Dogs. Children in general should be seen (rarely) and not heard. However we were really looking forward to growing old being able to commiserate with our one and only Son. He was turning out to be a truly first class human being as an adult. Tragically he was killed exactly a year ago at age 26. We will never get over it. We think about him every day. There is a permanent hole in the fabric of the space time continuum without Christopher in this world. If I could go back and make the choice to have or have not now? Have! The memories also make us smile inside and out everyday along with the hurt. I have in this paragraph spoke/wrote about this more than I have ever since he died. Time does not heel everything. Chris liked to play golf, a game I don't understand, he learned it from his Grandfather who also recently died. They both laughingly taught me the term "Mulligan". I could really use one right now.

 

[REWahoo]

JonnyM, posts like yours leave me wishing I could think of something meaningful to say. Wish I had a Mulligan to give you...

 

[Sue J]

JonnyM,

I'm so sorry for your loss.