Car Batteries - They Don't Make Them Like They Used To?

[TexasPE]

Car Electrical Loads Much Greater Now...

Now I'm wondering if I need to be concerned about my Subaru with a 3 year 6 month old OEM battery... I may buy a battery load tester, or at least a shop/parts store that has a loaner.

My 2017 Subaru Forester battery died twice because I left a map light on for 24 hours when parking. Today's cars have lots of electrical load - not all of which is disconnected when the ignition is turned off. Subaru batteries apparently do have a longevity problem - my dealer proactively replaced mine after 30 months (they perform a load test as part of their multipoint inspection).

 

[Midpack]

I bought and installed an Interstate battery from Costco today proactively replacing my OEM battery after 43 months, where I used to do so at 48+ months. I’m too old to be stranded anymore and we moved south so battery life will be shorter. So both cars have new batteries, one less thing to worry about for a while…

 

[jeffmete]

I’ve had good luck with OE batteries, but have found if I let one run completely dead, due to leaving a light on or door ajar, that battery is going die soon and need replacing. Had that happen this summer on our pontoon. Kids left the radio on till the battery died. Recharged it and worked for another month and then died.

 

[isisdave]

I had a 2008 Prius for five years, and did have to replace the OEM 12v battery once. I was surprised, as it really doesn't have to supply a big load. It WAS physically smaller than a normal car battery.

As far as regular engines go, in SoCal I could expect about 4 years. There'd be about a 1-week period of warning when it didn't "sound right" and then click-click. In the 12 years I spent in upstate New York, it was usually 3 years, and they'd ALWAYS die on the first cold night in October or so.

 

[ERD50]

I’ve had good luck with OE batteries, but have found if I let one run completely dead, due to leaving a light on or door ajar, that battery is going die soon and need replacing. Had that happen this summer on our pontoon. Kids left the radio on till the battery died. Recharged it and worked for another month and then died.

Yep. Below about 10.2 volts, there's some chemistry that goes to work (plating?) and kills batteries.

I've had good luck with batteries, but I'll usually change them out going into the 6th winter regardless. But when the kids were little, they'd often not get the car door shut all the way, and the dome light would stay on (before most cars would auto-shut off). Would have to jump or charge sometimes if undetected long enough, and those batteries died after 2-3 years.

-ERD50

 

[Sanbenito1]

My folks have an Outback.. there is apparently an issue with battery drain (not sure if model specific or all Subarus) and a class-action lawsuit regarding the issue. My dad keeps a trickle charger on it now otherwise it won't start. Not sure if it's useful information or not but might be a car curse vice battery.

I have a 2017 Outback and had to replace the battery every year. I was told by a mechanic at the dealership that the batteries they put in the new cars are not very good. However, batteries I bought in the subsequent years were good, and kept dying. Turns out that the Ascent (and some Outback’s and maybe other models, too) have an issue whereby if you leave the rear hatch open, the controller does not shut off once it’s open and the battery gets drained over time (or all at once if you leave the trunk open overnight, to sleep in). Some people just bought more powerful batteries (“Yellowtop”?) and knew not to leave their rear gate open for very long. However, Subaru now knows what the issue is and have issued Service Bulletin #17-179-20, dated 10/05/2020, “Power Rear Gate (PRG) Control Module - design change”. By the time the reason for the problem was discovered, my car was out of warranty. Subaru America (don’t bother with the dealer- you’ll get nowhere) could see from my service requests that I had gone in for dead battery issues previously, so Subaru of America ((800) 782-2783) refunded me for my last battery and also refunded me the $625 it cost for the new power gate module. The whole process took only 10 minutes- great customer service from Subaru!

 

[Car-Guy]

I have replaced car batteries proactively at about 4 years without being confronted with a dead batt for decades, never expected a battery failure after 2 years 9 months. Is that normal for OEM batteries these days or just bad luck? I read a couple of Honda and Subaru forums with lots of posts about how crappy OEM batteries are these days, but for all I know there are thousands of owners who haven't had (premature) battery failures.

Except for my tractors, I haven't had a battery failure in a very long time. (Well over a decade) I too swap my batteries out proactively when my cars hit 3+ years, when I happen to keep one that long. I belong to a number of performance car forums and I can't say that I recall reading about anyone complaining about battery life... Can't speak specifically about Honda's and Subaru's though.

 

[daytripper]

I have a 2019 Subaru outback. I have already replaced 2 batteries. This seems to be a Subaru issue (one of several). As mentioned above there is a class action law suite against Subaru regarding the batteries discharging prematurely. I would never by a Subaru again. Too many problems.

 

[rickncharlotte]

Optima Batteries

My 6yr old $80 Walmart battery finally died. After looking at a lot of reviews I replaced it with a $200 Optima Red Cap. After 11 months the Red Cap is dead. I found out this week that after Johnson Controls bought Optima they moved production from the US to Mexico. Not the same battery anymore. The parts store did not even test it they just gave me a new one. They must be use to all of the returns. I do not fill to good driving to see my children who live 4 and 6 hours away with a battery that will not last a year. I think I will go back to Walmart.

 

[Perryinva]

On some cars, changing the car battery is a PITA, and often the Auto Parts flunkies have little idea what they are doing. I change my own , and always install the longest life AGM battery, since Intens to keep cars a long time. Last one I bought for my Porsche was a Bosch at Pep Boys, on sale, and had a 4 year full replacement. At 3 years and 9 months it died and they gave me a new one. That was about 5 years ago now, so while it wasn’t cheap, ($160ish) only paid once for 9 years of battery….

So far, also have had very good luck with the OEM BMW batteries.

 

[Jerry1]

I keep a folder with all the maintenance, but don't log in into any spreadsheet.
I reference it every so often.

I keep a folder and a spreadsheet. Very basic. Anytime I spend money on the car, I log it and put the receipt in the folder. Really not much work at all. The spreadsheet just has Date, Mileage, Expense, Service - where service is just a short description of what I had done. I also tend to write the name of the company I dealt with (NAPA, Belle Tire, Dealer . . .).

As for batteries, I haven't kept a car over five years in a long time so I've not replaced a battery in a long time. Car ownership is significantly different in retirement than it was while working, so that may change. I expect my 2017 Equinox (DW's car) will need a battery before too long based on this thread. It sits in the garage a lot, especially the last few years. We bought it December 2016 and it has 23K miles on it. So far, it doesn't hesitate to start. We'll see.

 

[papaof2]

With a battery failing that quickly, I'd say the vehicle's charging system needs to be checked - along with the "always on" headlights? Do those lights actually turn off X minutes after the engine is stopped?

 

[CHBinFL]

Yeah the Florida heat definitely keeps our battery lives to a 3 year max.

I've seen about the same. My 2015 van (which sits outside in the FL heat and salt air all year round) is on it's 3rd battery. Replaced for free the first time, then pro-rated down to $80 the second. Never died on me, fortunately, all discovered and replaced by the mechanic when I brought it in for service or other repairs.

 

[ERD50]

Yeah the Florida heat definitely keeps our battery lives to a 3 year max.

I've seen about the same. My 2015 van (which sits outside in the FL heat and salt air all year round) is on it's 3rd battery. Replaced for free the first time, then pro-rated down to $80 the second. Never died on me, fortunately, all discovered and replaced by the mechanic when I brought it in for service or other repairs.

I recall seeing on youtube that a guy replaced his battery with super-caps (he was in FL or AZ, done to circumvent this battery-killing heat). The super-caps provided enough energy to start the car, and recharged quickly.

The problem he had was the parasitic drain on the super-caps while the car was parked. He ended up adding a motorcycle battery, which was plenty big enough to handle the drain.

I think he ditched the idea, but I was thinking that replacing a small motorcycle battery would be cheaper, and since the small battery isn't getting strained with starting, it might last longer anyhow?

And maybe at that size, replacing the motorcycle battery with a Lithium might be cost effective? Super-Cap + LiFePO?


here's one - he actually used a little SLA (< $20) that's common for home alarms, emergency lighting, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/ML7-12-Battery-Mighty-Brand-Product/dp/B00K8V30D0

-ERD50

 

[WhenIsItTime]

These things are not meant to sit unused. They need to drive.

I have a 3rd car that I only put 150 miles on a year. Even with a tender, it goes through batteries every 4 years. I thought that was bad, but many of these posts make me think it’s good.

 

[Dean56]

In New England area my experience is that the Interstate brand batteries lasts a lot longer than others by a lot. 12 years is not uncommon. I park my car outside with the temperature range between -20F to 100F. I only replaced mine because it took at least three cranks for the starter to start the car on early winter mornings. I wonder how many years it would have lasted in my 96 Accord if I didnot replace it.

Same here, I only use Interstate batteries. Have always gotten my monies worth. Years ago, I bought a Diehard battery. That thing leaked battery acid and made a mess in my engine compartment. I was told Diehard batteries are known to leak.

 

[coderbiz]

There are many things I hate about Wal-mart, but being that the batteries are made by the same companies that make ALL the other batteries, they seem to last just as long as any others.

The plus to buying a battery at Wal-mart is that they exist in about every small town, so replacement while travelling is easier than with say a Costco (which might be hundreds of miles away while we are travelling).

I'll also say that while living in Phoenix, we never had a battery last three years - so you always ended up with a pro-rated replacement. Since moving to the mid-Atlantic, we seem to have a longer life, likely due to not spending 7 months a year over 100F, and months of that never dipping below the 90s.

 

[Sunset]

Yep. Below about 10.2 volts, there's some chemistry that goes to work (plating?) and kills batteries.

I've had good luck with batteries, but I'll usually change them out going into the 6th winter regardless. But when the kids were little, they'd often not get the car door shut all the way, and the dome light would stay on (before most cars would auto-shut off). Would have to jump or charge sometimes if undetected long enough, and those batteries died after 2-3 years.

-ERD50

I've had that issue long ago... now out of habit, I turn off my dome light for our vehicles so I never drain the battery from failing to close the door properly.

I don't even know if they would automatically turn themselves off or not.

 

[Koolau]

I recall seeing on youtube that a guy replaced his battery with super-caps (he was in FL or AZ, done to circumvent this battery-killing heat). The super-caps provided enough energy to start the car, and recharged quickly.

The problem he had was the parasitic drain on the super-caps while the car was parked. He ended up adding a motorcycle battery, which was plenty big enough to handle the drain.

I think he ditched the idea, but I was thinking that replacing a small motorcycle battery would be cheaper, and since the small battery isn't getting strained with starting, it might last longer anyhow?

And maybe at that size, replacing the motorcycle battery with a Lithium might be cost effective? Super-Cap + LiFePO?


here's one - he actually used a little SLA (< $20) that's common for home alarms, emergency lighting, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/ML7-12-Battery-Mighty-Brand-Product/dp/B00K8V30D0



-ERD50

I don't doubt this YouTuber has been successful with his set up. I just wonder if it's ready for "prime time." It seems that a manufacturer could mass produce a similar setup and garner huge contracts from car manufacturers as well as after market sellers - IF it could replace a regular battery. Just the weight savings would be tempting as every pound saved is a little bit of fuel saved. I look for CAFE standards to be hiked within this administration, so...

The YT'er seems to recognize the short-coming of the system is that it won't tolerate a prolonged drain (radio on - engine off, dome light on - engine off, etc.) I'm not handy enough to mess around with building one of these, but if someone offered one for half the price of a regular battery, I'd be tempted. Along with my lithium box starter, I think I'd be good to go. YMMV

 

[ERD50]

I don't doubt this YouTuber has been successful with his set up. I just wonder if it's ready for "prime time." It seems that a manufacturer could mass produce a similar setup and garner huge contracts from car manufacturers as well as after market sellers - IF it could replace a regular battery. Just the weight savings would be tempting as every pound saved is a little bit of fuel saved. I look for CAFE standards to be hiked within this administration, so...

The YT'er seems to recognize the short-coming of the system is that it won't tolerate a prolonged drain (radio on - engine off, dome light on - engine off, etc.) I'm not handy enough to mess around with building one of these, but if someone offered one for half the price of a regular battery, I'd be tempted. Along with my lithium box starter, I think I'd be good to go. YMMV

Yes, I was also thinking mfg would be interested from the weight savings aspect. I think the hold up is, it still costs way more than a lead-acid, and those limitations on drain would face consumer resistance, and probably need a large enough supplementary battery to just take it out of consideration. At least until super-caps and LiFePO become cheaper.

Later I might do some math on a more 'mild' hybrid - say a 1/2 ~ 3/4 sized lead-acid, with just enough super-cap to restore cold-cranking amps. That might take a lot of stress of the lead-acid, and save some cost for smaller replacements.

-ERD50

 

[CaptTom]

One thing a lot of people forget (nobody here, of course!) is that a deep discharge - even one - shortens the life of a battery considerably. Just leaving a light on overnight by mistake, or listening to the radio while working an all day project near the car will do it.

 

[ncbill]

Yes, I was also thinking mfg would be interested from the weight savings aspect. I think the hold up is, it still costs way more than a lead-acid, and those limitations on drain would face consumer resistance, and probably need a large enough supplementary battery to just take it out of consideration. At least until super-caps and LiFePO become cheaper.

Later I might do some math on a more 'mild' hybrid - say a 1/2 ~ 3/4 sized lead-acid, with just enough super-cap to restore cold-cranking amps. That might take a lot of stress of the lead-acid, and save some cost for smaller replacements.

-ERD50

IMHO, the super-capacitors plus a solar "battery maintainer" on the dashboard may be the way the best solution for very hot climates (e.g. Phoenix)

but here in the mid-South I just buy Interstate from my local independent mechanic.

The failure mode for those is when the weather starts getting colder they crank slower and slower until they can't start the vehicle at all.

But they've always been easy to jump off (new lithium battery jump packs are amazing) & then drive to the mechanic for a replacement.

 

[Koolau]

IMHO, the super-capacitors plus a solar "battery maintainer" on the dashboard may be the way the best solution for very hot climates (e.g. Phoenix)

but here in the mid-South I just buy Interstate from my local independent mechanic.

The failure mode for those is when the weather starts getting colder they crank slower and slower until they can't start the vehicle at all.

But they've always been easy to jump off (new lithium battery jump packs are amazing) & then drive to the mechanic for a replacement.

Sounds like being a battery dealer in the South would be a bad deal. Half your batteries come back either full replacement or pro-rated. Maybe they pass the loss back to mfg, but still not a great business model. YMMV

 

[Music Lover]

The plus to buying a battery at Wal-mart is that they exist in about every small town, so replacement while travelling is easier than with say a Costco (which might be hundreds of miles away while we are travelling).

I buy my batteries at Costco but if it died and there wasn't a Costco close by I'd just buy one somewhere else, whether it be Walmart or some other place.

 

[CRLLS]

Ah, the benefits of an old car! My '56 MG had zero parasitic draw on the battery when parked. No radio, no clock etc. Just the self discharge of the battery itself which is about 1 year.

My '99 Buick's battery lasted more than 11 years and was still going strong when the battery's terminal rotted off. Not the cable clamp, the battery post itself.

I now have a small device that measures the battery capacity (health) so I don't arbitrarily replace the battery based on time. I have chosen to replace batteries when the capacity (not voltage) drops below 70%. Time will tell if this method works. If batteries last >10 years, I may not have enough time on this side of the grass to test this over the life of several batteries to know for sure.