Golf Talk Tuesdays 2015-2020

[Popeye]

Jack’s the putting Jedi! Sort of like this one. Vader goes golfing. Lol!

https://youtu.be/81fwEmP2CKY

 

[pb4uski]

Here's another example of a stupid rule of golf:

After battling for 17 holes in the Round of 16 at the U.S. Amateur, golfer Segundo Oliva Pinto saw his second shot land in a bunker on the 18th hole. That’s where his bid for the most prestigious amateur title in golf would end.

Tied with Tyler Strafaci going into the final hole at Bandon Dunes, Oliva Pinto ended up automatically losing the 18th hole when his caddie made the grave error of hopping into the bunker and touching the sand, apparently to test its texture.

As it turns out, you can’t do that. ...

https://sports.yahoo.com/us-amateur-caddie-error-bunker-segundo-oliva-pinto-golf-015644514.html

While I agree that the caddie shouldn't have done it, so what if the caddie touched the sand if the caddie never communicated the result to the player! Isolate the caddie from the player for that shot to ensure that the player doesn't benefit from the caddie's indiscretion.

I think if I was the opponent and absent that penalty the guy would have won I would intentionally sign an incorrect scorecard to be disqualified and give him the win.

 

[Midpack]

Here's another example of a stupid rule of golf:


https://sports.yahoo.com/us-amateur-caddie-error-bunker-segundo-oliva-pinto-golf-015644514.html

While I agree that the caddie shouldn't have done it, so what if the caddie touched the sand if the caddie never communicated the result to the player! Isolate the caddie from the player for that shot to ensure that the player doesn't benefit from the caddie's indiscretion.

I think if I was the opponent and absent that penalty the guy would have won I would intentionally sign an incorrect scorecard to be disqualified and give him the win.

I might agree if the caddy had simply stepped into the trap, but when he reached down with his hand and played with the sand (clearly shown in the video, which the caddy tried to deny WHY?) - what other purpose would he have for doing that than to share with the player? We don't know if they talked to each other or not, and golf rules shouldn't require officials to split hairs like that. The caddy broke a rule that has been in place for at least 55 years. Horrible the player lost, but golf has always been a sport where you'd better know and follow the rules. YMMV

I've always thought it was a little odd in that the player can see the condition of the sand, and easily test when they dig in with their feet. But again, the rule about any other test of the sand has been in place for generations and any player and caddy at that level should know better.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I might agree if the caddy had simply stepped into the trap, but when he reached down with his hand and played with the sand (clearly shown in the video, which the caddy tried to deny WHY?) -

two shot penalty or loss of hole in match play

 

[pb4uski]

From the press accounts it is pretty clear that the caddie had not talked to the player... the player was up looking at the green when the caddie was in the trap and was caught touching the sand.

 

[pb4uski]

two shot penalty or loss of hole in match play

Since it was match play it was loss of hole. I suspect that they didn't even play out the hole from what I read since the match was all square after 17.

 

[Midpack]

From the press accounts it is pretty clear that the caddie had not talked to the player... the player was up looking at the green when the caddie was in the trap and was caught touching the sand.

Then why did he do it? And why did he try to deny it? Clearly dishonest...

If a player wants to petition and get support for changing a rule that's fine. But asking for an exception when you've broken a rule is not part of golf, especially if you lie about your actions. I hope that never changes.

 

[pb4uski]

Dunno. Could have just been a moment of stupidity/not thinking and then realizing it wasn't allowed and denying it so his player wasn't unfairly penalized.... could be that he was really testing the sand intending to relay his thoughts to the player.

 

[Midpack]

Dunno. Could have just been a moment of stupidity/not thinking and then realizing it wasn't allowed and denying it so his player wasn't unfairly penalized.... could be that he was really testing the sand intending to relay his thoughts to the player.

Not to be disrespectful, but where in the rules does it say it's OK for the caddie to test the sand as long as he/she doesn't share with the player.

Very unfortunate, but the rules are clear, and it looks like Pinto accepted the ruling - as any player should. That's golf.

Doing so violated the USGA's Rule 12.2b, which outlines restrictions on touching the sand in a bunker and notes a player can't "deliberately touch sand in the bunker with his or her hand, a club or rake or any other object in an effort to test the condition of the surface to obtain information for the next stroke."

Rule 10.3c states that a player is responsible for his caddie's actions.

Afterward, Pinto said he was shocked when he was called over by the rules official and notified of what happened. Asked if his caddie explained to him what happened, Pinto told Golf Channel: "He didn't say anything. But at this point it doesn't really matter. What happened, happened. He can say anything, but it won't change what happened."

 

[Midpack]

I was shocked by this penalty at the time, I had no idea that could happen, or what the penalty would be...

 

[zinger1457]

Just asking for trouble using a caddie that doesn't know the game/rules. Always felt the 'testing the soil' rule had a lot of gray area. You can be certain that all pros are getting a feel for or testing the soil when they take a stance in a bunker. Paul Azinger who was one of the best bunker players admitted to it during a bunker lesson he gave on a Golf Channel program.

 

[aja8888]

Speaking of golf, after a 10+ year layoff (had both hips replaced during that time span), I am going back to playing golf.

I hit a 1/2 bucket of balls Wednesday and seemed to still have a swing.

I have been playing since I was a 12 year old caddie in 1955 with moderate skill. My best year, handicap wise, was in the 1980's when I held on to a solid 10. I have belonged to private clubs in California and in Texas, but no more memberships.

Next Tuesday a friend and I tee off at 9:20 AM at a local course in Conroe, Texas (Panorama Golf Club: https://www.panoramagctx.com/). My clubs are pretty old, but not as old as me! It should be fun, but it will be HOT (90's F).

 

[pb4uski]

Not to be disrespectful, but where in the rules does it say it's OK for the caddie to test the sand as long as he/she doesn't share with the player. ...

Where did I say that it was OK for the caddie to test the sand? In fact, I said just the opposite... "I agree that the caddie shouldn't have done it".

So you get an F for reading comprehension.

I just said that it is a stupid rule.

 

[Midpack]

Where did I say that it was OK for the caddie to test the sand? In fact, I said just the opposite... "I agree that the caddie shouldn't have done it".

So you get an F for reading comprehension.

I just said that it is a stupid rule.

Sorry, it’s a simple disagreement and I wasn’t trying to be contentious. My point was it doesn’t make any difference if he talked to the player as you noted. I don’t think it’s a stupid rule, it’s not new or obscure.

 

[Huston55]

My old BagBoy hand cart broke a couple months ago, and when I called them about a replacement part they said it’s so old they don’t carry them anymore. So, I thought “AHA!” An opportunity to buy a new cart! After looking at the BagBoy & Click Gear carts I liked, none were in stock, and with no info on when they would be. So, I splurged and got a battery powered one (MGI Navigator) and I’m loving it. I’d recommend this one if you’re looking. And, there’s a sale which includes accessories.

 

[f35phixer]

Speaking of golf, after a 10+ year layoff (had both hips replaced during that time span), I am going back to playing golf.

I hit a 1/2 bucket of balls Wednesday and seemed to still have a swing.

I have been playing since I was a 12 year old caddie in 1955 with moderate skill. My best year, handicap wise, was in the 1980's when I held on to a solid 10. I have belonged to private clubs in California and in Texas, but no more memberships.

Next Tuesday a friend and I tee off at 9:20 AM at a local course in Conroe, Texas (Panorama Golf Club: https://www.panoramagctx.com/). My clubs are pretty old, but not as old as me! It should be fun, but it will be HOT (90's F).

BLOW THE DOUGH, Get fitted for some new clubs - SENIOR FLEX and a new PUTTER>>>>>>>

 

[jkern]

Speaking of golf, after a 10+ year layoff (had both hips replaced during that time span), I am going back to playing golf.

I hit a 1/2 bucket of balls Wednesday and seemed to still have a swing.

I have been playing since I was a 12 year old caddie in 1955 with moderate skill. My best year, handicap wise, was in the 1980's when I held on to a solid 10. I have belonged to private clubs in California and in Texas, but no more memberships.

Next Tuesday a friend and I tee off at 9:20 AM at a local course in Conroe, Texas (Panorama Golf Club: https://www.panoramagctx.com/). My clubs are pretty old, but not as old as me! It should be fun, but it will be HOT (90's F).

Good luck. Hope you come back strong after a 10 year layoff.

 

[gcgang]

USGA Handicapping Sucks!

Our club runs an 80% handicap Match Play.

After winning my first three matches, in the semis I play a friend who has a 4.9 index, my index is 4.5. Heads up no strokes right, as 80% of the 0.4 difference is 0.32, no stroke. No. 4.5 is a 5 handicap, 4.9 is a 6. 80% of 1 rounds to one, I gotta give him a stroke. What a bunch of crap.

Like the IRS told me when I had a tax question, it may not be right, but it is correct.

After playing the 1st 12 holes 1 over and finding myself two down, one of them due to the stroke, I couldn’t come back and lost 3&1.

 

[pb4uski]

How can 4.9 be a 6?

If you have the GHIN app you can lookup the course handicap for you and your competitor for the course and tees that you are playing... I suspect that you then take 80% of the course handicaps, rounded and take the difference.

But are you really complaining so much about 1 stroke? If you lost 3&1 then he had you dormie after 16, right? It sounds like either you had an off day or he had a good day and you likely would have lost anyway.... just congratulate him and move on.

 

[pb4uski]

Speaking of golf, after a 10+ year layoff (had both hips replaced during that time span), I am going back to playing golf.

... Next Tuesday a friend and I tee off at 9:20 AM at a local course in Conroe, Texas (Panorama Golf Club: https://www.panoramagctx.com/). My clubs are pretty old, but not as old as me! It should be fun, but it will be HOT (90's F).

How did it go?

 

[Big_Hitter]

How can 4.9 be a 6?

index versus course handicap - it happens

this may be one thing we can cavalierly attribute to rounding

 

[pb4uski]

index versus course handicap - it happens

this may be one thing we can cavalierly attribute to rounding

Ok, so the 4.5 index converted to a 5 course handicap is one stroke different from a 4.9 index converted to a 6 course handicap... as you say, due to rounding... and then 80% of the one-stroke diffence rounds to one... I guess I could see that happening but the poster should have been clearer.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Ok, so the 4.5 index converted to a 5 course handicap is one stroke different from a 4.9 index converted to a 6 course handicap... as you say, due to rounding... and then 80% of the one-stroke diffence rounds to one... I guess I could see that happening but the poster should have been clearer.

he got shortknocked! total travesty in the competitive club golf world lol

 

[gcgang]

How can 4.9 be a 6?

If you have the GHIN app you can lookup the course handicap for you and your competitor for the course and tees that you are playing... I suspect that you then take 80% of the course handicaps, rounded and take the difference.

But are you really complaining so much about 1 stroke? If you lost 3&1 then he had you dormie after 16, right? It sounds like either you had an off day or he had a good day and you likely would have lost anyway.... just congratulate him and move on.

A 4.9 could be any course handicap depending on the course rating and slope. In this case, it was a 6, while 4.5 was a 5. I understand the USGA Handicap Rules and why he gets a stroke.

But I thought a handicap system designed to make things more equitable actually making them less so in this instance, was a good subject for a rant.

Why not use difference in indexes rather than converting indexes to handicaps before determining strokes in a match?

And yes, I definitely lost because of my play, not the stroke. All I can do is smile and move on. I guess I’ll just go directly to the USGA in an attempt to effect change and have justice in the future.

 

[pb4uski]

I get it... if you had just added "course handicap" after 5 and 6 then it would have been clear.... I'm very familiar with course handicaps... they can also vary based on different tees at the same course.

The index is the "base" and is determined based on all the scores that you post at different courses and different tees... that is why you specify courses and tees when you post scores. The commensurate adjustments are made to the index to get an appropriate handicap for the course and tees that you are playing based on the course/tee ratings.

It looks like in your case the rounding just work against you... it happens.