is it the battery or the starter?

[retire-early]

I don't have a good battery to put in there.

My choices are:
1. Buy a new battery and hope that fixes it.
If it doesn't, I am out the $150.
2. Pay $85 for a tow and have the auto repair shop diagnose the problem.

Which is better?


.

 

[RobbieB]

The whirring sound makes me think the bendix is bad. A click and nothing would sound like a bad battery. Click and nothing means the starter is not cranking the motor. Click and whir means the starter is spinning but not hooked up to the engine.

 

[Jerry1]

I don't have a good battery to put in there.

My choices are:
1. Buy a new battery and hope that fixes it.
If it doesn't, I am out the $150.
2. Pay $85 for a tow and have the auto repair shop diagnose the problem.

Which is better?


.

3. Take the battery to a place that can load test it.

Re: 1., You really wouldn't be out the $150 because it's something you'll likely have to buy soon anyway.

Re: 2., That's really your best bet. There comes a time to stop messing around and get your car back on the road.

Combination of 2. and 3., Pick the place you're going to have it towed and ask them about bringing the battery there to be tested to see if you can avoid the towing cost.

 

[SecondCor521]

I'd probably try to find a neighbor, friend, or passer-by with jumper cables, try to jump start the car, then drive it immediately to a auto parts store (like an O'Reillys or an Autozone type place). They can check the battery, alternator, and starter for you for free and will tell you what's wrong.

The only problem with this plan is that if it isn't the battery, you might be sort of stuck at the auto parts store. You could maybe then get a jump start and drive it to the repair shop though.

On a 2004 Honda, could be the battery, could be the alternator. Could be the starter solenoid. I kind of doubt it's the starter proper or anything involving the ring gear - those usually last longer and die slowly rather than suddenly - I think.

 

[Sunset]

I remember replacing a starter on a car a long time ago, it was pretty easy. But I looked and the OP's car make it more difficult.

This site had some suggestions for figuring out if it's the starter.
https://www.700r4transmissionhq.com/honda-accord-bad-starter/

One good one I've seen a few times is the car gearshift is not quite in the right spot or the switch it triggers is bad.

"If everything looks good with the battery cables and terminals, move on to the neutral safety switch. Try putting your Accord in neutral and starting the engine. If it starts, that could indicate a bad neutral safety switch, and not a bad starter."

 

[Montecfo]

Street,

My guess is starter or starter solenoid.

Game on.

 

[mountainsoft]

I'm guessing a bad starter.

You could try turning on all the accessories in the car, headlights, wipers, radio, ventilation fans, etc. If those all work, the battery is probably in usable condition. Especially if recharging and jump starting didn't help.

The starter on my old VW Rabbit used to stick every once in a while. I would use a piece of wire to jumper between the battery positive terminal and the solenoid connection on the starter. Bypassing the ignition switch and all of the wiring would give the starter a little extra current to break loose. It's also a good way to rule out any problems in the starting circuit (ignition switch, wiring, lockout switches, etc.). Make sure the car is in neutral and the parking brake is on when you do this!!!

I have had brand new batteries test perfect, but be completely dead when trying to start the car (Autozone's brand). I think they had a bad cell or something.

Interstate brand batteries are my favorite if I can find them.

 

[Telly]

Load up the parts cannon! There are many possibilities. Troubleshooting is needed. It could be something as simple as corrosion on one or both battery cables at the battery terminals. The "whine" you are hearing we can't hear... it could just be the blower motor running for all I know remotely.

Since you have a voltmeter, you can modify NW-Bounds simple test in post #3 - Put the voltmeter probes on the positive and negative POSTS of the battery. NOT on the battery cable clamps! Press hard to make good contact. Read and note the voltage. Then while holding probes on the battery posts, have someone turn the key to Start. What happens? Does the battery voltage measured at the posts go way down while in Start, or does it stay approximately the same? If approximately the same, either there is corrosion at battery terminal(s), or bad ground, or starter not being engaged due to some other wiring/switch problem. Or the starter motor's commutator is wearing out, the old tap the starter with a hammer to jiggle it often works for that, but is very temporary!

 

[NW-Bound]

Load up the parts cannon! There are many possibilities. Troubleshooting is needed. It could be something as simple as corrosion on one or both battery cables at the battery terminals. The "whine" you are hearing we can't hear... it could just be the blower motor running for all I know remotely.

Since you have a voltmeter, you can modify NW-Bounds simple test in post #3 - Put the voltmeter probes on the positive and negative POSTS of the battery. NOT on the battery cable clamps! Press hard to make good contact. Read and note the voltage. Then while holding probes on the battery posts, have someone turn the key to Start. What happens? Does the battery voltage measured at the posts go way down while in Start, or does it stay approximately the same? If approximately the same, either there is corrosion at battery terminal(s), or bad ground, or starter not being engaged due to some other wiring/switch problem. Or the starter motor's commutator is wearing out, the old tap the starter with a hammer to jiggle it often works for that, but is very temporary!

+1 on using the voltmeter to see if the battery voltage sags while under load, or if there is any load at all when the key is turned to "Start".

Quite often, the cable clamp at the battery posts does not make good contact, and the car light would go out when you try to start, and come back when you release the key. The voltage loss is caused by the poor contact, not by the battery being weak.

Since the car was already jumped started by the roadside assistance truck, I think it is not likely that the battery is the problem. Also, the OP removed the battery to take to Walmart, then reinstalled it, and that reduces the chance of a bad contact. Hence, I recommended the "light test", before the OP posted that he had a voltmeter.

Still, you can have a bad cable, or a poor connection at the starter terminals and not at the battery.

The main thing to look for is where that "whine" comes from. If the motor spins, but does not turn the engine over, then that's it. In that case, you will see the battery voltage sags momentarily when the motor spins up, then recovers but not to the level when there's no load. It's because a motor draws power when it spins up, but when free-running without a load will draw less power. This effect causes the dome light to blink momentarily, then come back.

 

[Car-Guy]

The main thing to look for is where that "whine" comes from. If the motor spins, but does not turn the engine over, then that's it.

+1

IMO, it matters if the whine is heard when the key is turned "on" VS turned to "start". I've often heard things make a "whine" sound when the key is turned on (often that's the electric fuel pump running) but if the whine is heard when you turn the key to "start" it's usually going to be the starter motor spinning but not engaging. Any competent mechanic should be able to diagnosis the problem in ~5 mins once he (or she ) get his/her hands on the car.

Without seeing the car, it still could be battery or connection related, starter/solenoid, or worse case the flywheel.

 

[ransil]

I don't have a good battery to put in there.

My choices are:
1. Buy a new battery and hope that fixes it.
If it doesn't, I am out the $150.
2. Pay $85 for a tow and have the auto repair shop diagnose the problem.

Which is better?


.

option #2 if you knew what you were doing you would have diagnosed it and fixed it by now, pay for the professional help.

 

[easysurfer]

option #2 if you knew what you were doing you would have diagnosed it and fixed it by now, pay for the professional help.

+1.

I made a similar paralysis by analysis years ago. This was before I appreciated the life and death of car batteries.

I had plans to drive out of state for a concert around Christmas time. Tried to start car but car wouldn't start. I am a member of AAA so called them to get battery jumped. They asked do I want them to just replace the battery? I declined .

So ended up while driving to the concert, each time I parked along the way (like stopping at a rest stop) the battery would barely start. Went to the show, but after having the car parked for hours, the battery needed another jump.

Next morning, ready to go home from hotel, battery dead again. So, another call to AAA. This time, the light bulb finally turned on. Please, please replace the battery for me .

My lesson learned in over thinking things. At least now, I carry a good jump starter in my car all the time and not have to do the AAA call just to get a jump.

 

[teetee]

With Honda it is likely the starter. You can always measure the battery voltage to check its charge state. But Honda starters can fail in random fashion because of the wornout clutch or something magnetic (can't remember what exactly so don't quote me) . I think Eric the car guy did a video on YouTube for it. Knock on the starter at the part entering the engine while turning the key usually helps to start the car.

Replacing the starter if you don't want to play with it should fix it.

I had a 1996 accord and one of my relatives has a 2012 CRV. Both had the starter issue at one point. Though the CRV layer had a damaged battery terminal so with high current demand from the battery in each start, it became a connection issue and after the hardness was melted it stopped starting altogether so check the connection (sectional and check the resistance) as well especially the ground to starter.

 

[bloom2708]

Another vote for the starter.

They tend to get bad spots. So randomly the car won't turn over. Sometimes repeated attempts moves the starter enough off the bad spot that it will go.

I had a car that would not start and then would start fine 6-7 times in a row. Like landing on your number on a roulette table. Sometimes it randomly happens.

If the whine is not the fuel pump kicking in and continues, then likely that means other issues with the starter.

 

[Sunset]

OP - My first car had trouble starting, but hitting the solenoid with a screwdriver handle (never a hammer) would unstick the solenoid.

One issue is the starter for the Accord is underneath the exhaust pipes (according to the internet), maybe it's easy to get at the starter on a lift from underneath, but looks awkward for a homeowner.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

OP, you need a qualified mechanic. A good independent garage will sort this out quickly. Putzing around could take weeks to get it sorted out.

Go to a decent online forum devoted to Hondas, like Honda-Tech.com. There are subforums for different parts of the US. Check to see if there's a recommended mechanic in your area. Pay to have the car fixed. If you can't tell the difference between a dead battery and a worn starter drive gear, you need to pay someone who can.

 

[Sojourner]

I'd probably try to find a neighbor, friend, or passer-by with jumper cables, try to jump start the car, then drive it immediately to a auto parts store (like an O'Reillys or an Autozone type place). They can check the battery, alternator, and starter for you for free and will tell you what's wrong.

The only problem with this plan is that if it isn't the battery, you might be sort of stuck at the auto parts store. You could maybe then get a jump start and drive it to the repair shop though.

+1, this is exactly what I would do. If a jump start from another vehicle fails, then you know for sure that it isn't a battery problem. If it works, drive directly to an AutoZone and get a new battery.

 

[Sunset]

My batteries from Walmart have been good, and they've lasted a lot longer than 2 yrs, usually 5 or more.
I bought from there in the past as they were rated pretty good by consumer reports.

Reality is there are few battery manufacturers so many "brands" are just made at the same place.

 

[ERD50]

OP, you need a qualified mechanic. A good independent garage will sort this out quickly. Putzing around could take weeks to get it sorted out.
... .

+1000. This isn't rocket science, but troubleshooting on-line with a vague description isn't a good way to go about it.

Example: A few years back, DD said every once in a while her car would not start, and she bought one of those portable jumpers to start it when that happened.

Sounds like a bad battery, right. Wrong!

Of course I didn't like the idea of her getting stuck and relying on a jumper, so I looked at it first chance I got. I pretty quickly realized her battery was fine - it was the terminal clamp that had cracked, and gave an intermittent connection. Clamping on just that one jumper would clamp it tight enough for the battery to turn the engine over - didn't even need the "juice" from the jumper pack. I ran out to the local auto parts store and put in a new clamp - all good.

That $10 fix (with my free labor) is going to be hard to "see" on-line.

Also, some of the comments on battery voltage here are off-base. Lead-Acid batteries are not that simple/straightforward. Do some searching for details, but there are many variables. A good alternator boosts the voltage to ~ 13.8 V, and it takes some time (hours), for the battery voltage to settle down to the point that the voltage is an indication of the state of charge (SOC).

Load affects voltage, and we can't know what load is on this if it is in-circuit (many cars run some moderate current things for minutes before they go to an idle state).

-ERD50

 

[wolf]

OP. IMHO. You do not understand cars. So, do as a couple of posters have said.
Find a qualified mechanic. (ask friends who they use). If you can "jump start",
the car. Drive to the mechanic. Easy fix.

Out of curiosity. How many miles on your honda. Are you still on original starter/alternator. Best to use Denso/OEM parts. (alternator/starter).

 

[JRon]

To clarify - car battery voltage should be 12.4 or above when idle. In a running car the voltage should read 13.5 - 14.7 because the alternator is charging it.

To pile on I think it’s the starter, but having a mechanic look at it is the next logical step. Good luck.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Here's my Walmart battery story:

New-ish Walmart battery discharged overnight, so car wouldn't start in the morning. Walmart tested it, and declared it good. Took car to an independent car mechanic, who kept it several nights, trying to figure out what was causing it to discharge overnight. Couldn't figure it out. So I just replaced the battery. Problem solved. Lesson- don't trust battery tests as absolute. And be wary of Walmart batteries. Some mechanics aren't very smart.

 

[ERD50]

The following STRIKE OUT is BAD, BAD advice. Disconnecting the battery can cause serious damage to your car electronics. The lithium jump pack dioes not provide the same load as the lead-acid battery (lithiums need to be charged under more carefully controlled circumstances).

[-]Ask neighbors/friends if they have a lithium jump starter. Connect + & - to the battery and start the vehicle. If that does not work remove the positive cable from the battery post and connect it to just the lithium jump starter, reconnect the negative lithium battery cable to the negative battery post/ground point. Start the vehicle. Easy testing completed[/-]

Here's a ref for you:

Don't Disconnect the Battery with the Engine Running

Now he decides to "test" your alternator by disconnecting the battery. After all, the car's ignition should be able to run on just the alternator's power alone.

Wrong!

The moment he disconnects either lead from your battery, it's entirely possible he caused thousands of dollars in damage. Here's why...

Your battery does more than just provide electricity. It also shorts AC, spikes and transients to ground. Removing the battery from the circuit allows those spikes and transients to travel around, endangering every semiconductor circuit in your car. The ECU, the speed sensitive steering, the memory seat adjustments, the cruise control, and even the car's stereo.

Even if your computers and stereo remain intact, in a great many cases removing the battery burns out the diodes in the alternator, necessitating a new alternator. If disconnecting the battery interferes with the voltage regulator's control voltage input, it's possible for the alternator voltage to go way over the top (I've heard some say hundreds of volts), frying everything.

There's also the chance of a spark while you are disconnecting that battery, that could ignite hydrogen gas and cause an acid-bath explosion. DON'T DO THIS!!!

I am going to request that the mods close this thread - some of this advice is dangerously ill informed. The OP has got what they need to know - take it to a pro or experienced DIY'er.

To clarify - car battery voltage should be 12.4 or above when idle. In a running car the voltage should read 13.5 - 14.7 because the alternator is charging it. ...

So right there you have contradicted yourself. A car that is idling is 'running' and the alternator is charging it, so 12.4V is not in the range of 13.5 - 14.7 V.

-ERD50

 

[springnr]

EDR50/All
Previous post with misinformation, deleted.
It did not occur to me that someone might remove the positive battery cable, while the vehicle was running.
Of course if the vehicle was running , one would not have progressed to that step in the process.

*Nothing is Sailor Proof*

 

[doneat54]

So right there you have contradicted yourself. A car that is idling is 'running' and the alternator is charging it, so 12.4V is not in the range of 13.5 - 14.7 V.

-ERD50

No he didn't. He said 12.4V OR ABOVE. And BTW, reading/interpreting battery voltage (while charging or not) without understanding what loads are on it is meaningless.