Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[DallasGuy]

I created this forum to discuss various EV models. Please keep the discussion to discussion of a particular EV model or EV news about new/changed models.

There's another EV forum thread called "The Electric Vehicle Thread" if you want to discuss other EV related topics like the pros and cons of EV's, etc.

 

[explanade]

I will turn in my lease at the end of 2024.

So I'm hoping the EV supply situation will be much better then than it was at the start of 2022.

Chevy recently announced it will bring the Bolt back at some point on their Ultium platform.

Some excitement about the Volvo EX30, which was publicly unveiled recently.

But with the upcoming EX30, Volvo has created a compact electric SUV with a ton of premium features and a surprisingly affordable price. After getting to check one out in person at its North American debut, it’s clear we need more electric vehicles like this in the market.

Due out sometime in the summer of 2024, a base EX30 will start at just $35,000 for a single-motor setup with around 275 miles of range. Granted, that’s a bit more than a gas-powered alternative like a Honda CR-V (which starts at just under $30,000) or a Subaru Crosstrek (around $25,000). But when you consider the average price of a new electric vehicle is over $53,000, Volvo is definitely helping make EVs a bit more affordable.

https://www.engadget.com/the-honda-...lUCJ5MuyLjhr1gxJ0XD9Hh5mCLzE8yAN0EjJHBDGcsILz


Probably not eligible for any federal tax credits, unless Volvo plans to build some factories in the US in the next year.

 

[DallasGuy]

I will turn in my lease at the end of 2024.

So I'm hoping the EV supply situation will be much better then than it was at the start of 2022.

Chevy recently announced it will bring the Bolt back at some point on their Ultium platform.

Some excitement about the Volvo EX30, which was publicly unveiled recently.




https://www.engadget.com/the-honda-...lUCJ5MuyLjhr1gxJ0XD9Hh5mCLzE8yAN0EjJHBDGcsILz


Probably not eligible for any federal tax credits, unless Volvo plans to build some factories in the US in the next year.

Hopefully the "new" Bolt will return in late '24 or '25 in a similar price range (ie. starting mid 20's to about $30k). And then there's the Chevy Equinox which was said to start at about $30k for the base model when it eventually comes out. I've read that the first Equinox's won't be the base models so it might take another 6-12 mo to get the base model.

If they can keep the Volvo EX30 starting around $35k, they will sell well. It's a nice looking small SUV! It's nice to see more somewhat affordable EV's enter the market.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

Great idea! What EV do you own? We have two a Model 3 & a Model Y. While they look similar the functionality is quite different. The hatchback allows much larger cargo. The Model 3 is better for errands like going to the grocery store.

 

[ken830]

My prediction: A lot of these EV models will see challenging sales numbers as buyers wait for the inevitable NACS to be included.

 

[DallasGuy]

Great idea! What EV do you own? We have two a Model 3 & a Model Y. While they look similar the functionality is quite different. The hatchback allows much larger cargo. The Model 3 is better for errands like going to the grocery store.

I have a '23 Bolt EUV. I was never really in the EV market until Chevy lowered the prices of the Bolt EV and EUV. It's not that I didn't like the other EV's on the market, but I don't drive alot (2,000-3,000 miles/yr) and I couldn't really justify spending over $40k on something I didn't use very much. I ended up getting the Bolt EUV (with only one $500 extra option) for under $30k.

I like both the Model 3 and Model Y. Very nice EV's! My sister and her husband have 2 Model S's which they like alot. Can't go wrong with a Tesla!

 

[DallasGuy]

My prediction: A lot of these EV models will see challenging sales numbers as buyers wait for the inevitable NACS to be included.

I still don't quite understand how that will all work. Since I have the J1772 plugin, will I be able to attach a J1772 to Tesla adapter and charge at the Tesla stations? ....or any new stations created by that group of auto manufacturers over the next few years. It will probably take awhile for all of this to settle out.

 

[ken830]

I have a '23 Bolt EUV. I was never really in the EV market until Chevy lowered the prices of the Bolt EV and EUV. It's not that I didn't like the other EV's on the market, but I don't drive alot (2,000-3,000 miles/yr) and I couldn't really justify spending over $40k on something I didn't use very much. I ended up getting the Bolt EUV (with only one $500 extra option) for under $30k.

I like both the Model 3 and Model Y. Very nice EV's! My sister and her husband have 2 Model S's which they like alot. Can't go wrong with a Tesla!

The COVID pandemic mixed things up for me. We have two Teslas, but my commuter is the Model 3 Performance, which I spent over $80k on in 2018. I used to commute ~23,000 miles/year. Since early 2020, the car has seen only 1k/year if even that. I haven't driven it in almost a year. That definitely changes the math for me, but it's a huge leap to go down to just one car -- especially for us as a family with 3 young kids, my wife commuting ~70miles/day in the Model X during the school year, and my kids changing schools over the next few years with yet-to-be-known drop-off schedules.

 

[braumeister]

Since I have the J1772 plugin, will I be able to attach a J1772 to Tesla adapter and charge at the Tesla stations?

Yes.
I often attach an adapter to a Tesla charger and plug it into the J1772 socket on my car. It's more common to find Tesla chargers at hotels than other types, in my travels.

Note: this is for Tesla "destination chargers", not Superchargers.

 

[explanade]

Another forthcoming CUV EV is the Kia EV5, a lower-priced and more conventional design than the EV6.

Kia's latest all-electric offering, the EV5, will be revealed at the Chengdu Motor Show next month. The EV5 is expected to start in the region of $40,000 and will be a crossover slightly smaller in size than the EV6. We already have a very good idea of what it will look like, with Kia showing it off in concept form at the Shanghai Motor Show last March.

According to The Korean Car Blog, the EV5 will be powered by an 82-kilowatt-hour battery pack and will have up to 372 miles of range. And while the EV5 will ride on the same E-GMP platform as the EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5, it will feature a 400-volt system as opposed to the 800-volt setup found in the aforementioned models. That means it will take slightly longer to charge, although it also allows it to be more affordable.

https://insideevs.com/news/679475/kia-ev5-revealed-next-month/

 

[ken830]

I still don't quite understand how that will all work. Since I have the J1772 plugin, will I be able to attach a J1772 to Tesla adapter and charge at the Tesla stations? ....or any new stations created by that group of auto manufacturers over the next few years. It will probably take awhile for all of this to settle out.

Just to clarify: The J1772 is the AC section of the CCS connector (the circle section). The "oval" section is the DC fast-charging part of the CCS connector. The entire connector is "CCS". Tesla NACS uses the same two conductors for both AC and DC -- makes sense since you will never charge with AC and DC at the same time..

Manufacturers are claiming that they will provide (or make available for purchase) adapters for NACS-to-CCS that will support DC fast charging at Tesla Superchargers. I believe Tesla will be making these for them, so they will work well, but CCS is bulky and the adapter will necessarily be the same -- the CCS-to-NACS adapter that Tesla vehicle need to use to charge at CCS stations is comically bulky (https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter). And no one likes adapters if they can get away without them -- especially bulky ones for a vehicle that you have to live with for the entire ownership period ~5-10 years.

Those that have an immediate need for a vehicle or understand/know that they charge mostly at home on J1772 will make the purchase -- many others will probably just delay by a year or two, which is a reasonably time period in a new-vehicle purchasing decision.

 

[aaronc879]

Hopefully the "new" Bolt will return in late '24 or '25 in a similar price range (ie. starting mid 20's to about $30k). And then there's the Chevy Equinox which was said to start at about $30k for the base model when it eventually comes out. I've read that the first Equinox's won't be the base models so it might take another 6-12 mo to get the base model.

If they can keep the Volvo EX30 starting around $35k, they will sell well. It's a nice looking small SUV! It's nice to see more somewhat affordable EV's enter the market.

Living in snow country I want AWD in my small SUV. I assume if it's single motor then the Volvo does not have AWD. I would like to see a small SUV with AWD in that 300 mile range and $35K price range. That is top end of what I consider affordable for the average person. That could include just cloth seats and less tech for the base AWD model. Then make it $40K-ish for the model with all the latest and greatest.

 

[ken830]

Another forthcoming CUV EV is the Kia EV5, a lower-priced and more conventional design than the EV6.



https://insideevs.com/news/679475/kia-ev5-revealed-next-month/

I know Hyundai has not announced NACS adoption yet, but 400V architecture is probably the better choice for now in case they do.

 

[Midpack]

Not sure what the OP is looking for?

I ordered a Tesla Model Y LR in Jan, but cancelled in Mar. I'm still buying one, but I am going to wait for HW4 (transition already underway) or maybe even the Juniper refresh (Q4 23 or Q1 24?). Should be able to decide on my MY sooner vs later after the M3 Highland refresh rolls out sometime in the next few months.

I know a couple Tesla owners, and a couple Hyundai Ioniq 5 owners. All are absolutely thrilled with their cars, say they will never buy another ICE! There is a Rivian R1T and an F-150 Lightning in my neighborhood, but I don't know those owners.

Tesla is FAR ahead of any other competitor in terms of technology, software (w OTA updates), efficiency and safety. Plus no dealers!!! However they have not yet matched the build quality of legacy automakers - but they have gotten MUCH better over the past few years. And if you want an EV that looks and feels like a traditional ICE vehicle you might not want a Tesla. I for one like the Tesla UI, app, charging network, etc.

 

[explanade]

Living in snow country I want AWD in my small SUV. I assume if it's single motor then the Volvo does not have AWD. I would like to see a small SUV with AWD in that 300 mile range and $35K price range. That is top end of what I consider affordable for the average person. That could include just cloth seats and less tech for the base AWD model. Then make it $40K-ish for the model with all the latest and greatest.

I believe the Volvo will offer AWD but it will cost more, as is the case with all cars, AWD costs more, because with EVs, AWD means 2 motors and fast acceleration on top of greater traction.

But you also lose some range too.

I don't think there are too many "luxury" AWD cars in the $35k range.

 

[ken830]

I believe the Volvo will offer AWD but it will cost more, as is the case with all cars, AWD costs more, because with EVs, AWD means 2 motors and fast acceleration on top of greater traction.

But you also lose some range too.

I don't think there are too many "luxury" AWD cars in the $35k range.

With a traditional gasoline car, you always lose power and range with higher drivetrain loss when going to AWD because there is just more drivetrain for the engine to spin, But a dual/multi-motor EV, that's not always true. The original 85kWh Model S was a single motor RWD with 265 miles of range. A couple of years later, when the dual motor 85D was introduced, range and performance actually increased with the same battery pack. With two motors, you can optimized for two different driving scenarios (e.g. smaller, higher-gear ratio for highway cruising + larger lower-geared unit for better low end acceleration) and utilize one or the other or both simultaneously depending on the scenario. These gains can cover and slightly exceed the weight penalty of the additional drive units while giving you the benefits of dual/multi-motors. This is more of an engineering, design, & cost trade-off decision by the manufacturer.

At the time, Consumer Reports noted how this broke their rating system because the original P85 received a score of 99/100 and the at-the-time new P85D had better performance numbers all around while delivering better efficiency and range which resulted in a score of 103/100 on the same scoring system.

The AWD Model 3 is $47k, so <$40k after federal tax credits and those that qualify for state and local incentives will bring that pretty close to "$35k range."

 

[NW-Bound]

Consumer Reports just tested the range of 4 EVs. While it is no surprise that they all suffered range reduction in cold climate, some degraded more than others (down to 57% of EPA range).

On the other hand, some even exceeded their EPA range by a little when it was warm, despite the use of AC (80F and humid).

It would be interesting to see more EVs tested this way. It took CR a year to test in different weathers.

It turned out that the 4 tested EVs don't differ that much in their range in real life, despite their EPA advertised ranges. I like that, as it shows it's a competitive industry.

Reference for full text: https://www.consumerreports.org/car...e-affects-electric-vehicle-range-a4873569949/

 

[eytonxav]

Nothing against Tesla, but I get tired of hearing mostly Tesla specific posts. Want to hear more about other manufacturers that have better creature comforts and models that are really SUVs. Anybody have direct info on some alternatives?

 

[Midpack]

Nothing against Tesla, but I get tired of hearing mostly Tesla specific posts. Want to hear more about other manufacturers that have better creature comforts and models that are really SUVs. Anybody have direct info on some alternatives?

I’m sure you know Tesla has a bigger slice of the EV market than all other EV makers combined, so it’s only natural most posts are about Teslas. Tesla has been selling EVs for more than 10 years, other carmakers have just begun and on a much smaller scale. I see Teslas everywhere when I’m on the road, all other EV makes/models are relatively uncommon.

If you and the OP want to hear about other EV makes/models just ask. Otherwise it’s like asking about search engines and then not expecting posts about Google to dominate…

 

[eytonxav]

I’m sure you know Tesla has a bigger slice of the EV market than all other EV makers combined, so it’s only natural most posts are about Teslas. Tesla has been selling EVs for more than 10 years, other carmakers have just begun and on a much smaller scale. I see Teslas everywhere when I’m on the road, all other EV makes/models are relatively uncommon.

If you and the OP want to hear about other EV makes/models just ask. Otherwise it’s like asking about search engines and then not expecting posts about Google to dominate…

I am aware that Tesla set the standard, but I thought the OPs post was about learning about different models out there and I was just reiterating that point with respect to SUVs and you came back with another Tesla commercial

 

[Midpack]

I am aware that Tesla set the standard, but I thought the OPs post was about learning about different models out there and I was just reiterating that point with respect to SUVs and you came back with another Tesla commercial

Where did the OP say other than Tesla?

Which other model do you want to hear about? This isn’t rocket surgery.

I created this forum to discuss various EV models. Please keep the discussion to discussion of a particular EV model or EV news about new/changed models.

There's another EV forum thread called "The Electric Vehicle Thread" if you want to discuss other EV related topics like the pros and cons of EV's, etc.

 

[eytonxav]

Where did the OP say other than Tesla?

Which other model do you want to hear about? This isn’t rocket surgery.

He did not say Tesla only, and then you seemed to take exception to my asking about other manufacturers, sheesh.

I would like to hear experiences about others, specifically EV SUV. Some that come to mind are Audi eTron, Mustang (kind of quasi SUV/Car), Mercedes, Jaguar, Hyundai, etc. Personally, I am interested in seating comfort and something that does not have an interior that looks too utilitarian. How is the ride quality, handling, insulation from outside noise, display, features, storage and of course charging/mileage experience. Yes, I can research online from car sites and manufacturers websites, but hearing real world from folks on this forum is usually a good thing.

 

[KCGeezer]

Nice video walk through of the Volvo EX30 available on YouTube. That’s one I’ll definitely be considering. We’ve had good experiences with a couple of their old wagons years ago and DW absolutely loves her XC90.

 

[Montecfo]

If you and the OP want to hear about other EV makes/models just ask.:

The poster DID just ask, in all fairness.

 

[aja8888]

My friend has a new Bolt. I have driven it and it's really nice. He got the "loaded" version (all options) and he paid around $37K. Very nice vehicle but the range is around 250 miles on the best day.