Failure to launch adult children

[Keim]

There is some excellent advice in here, esp. from the former HR hiring guy. Kudos.

5 years is a long time to go with nary a call back. I would:
1. Broaden types of jobs applied for.
2. Broaden search area.
3. Immediately Find job, any job, to fill resume gaps and pay the bills.
And IMO most importantly, 4. Get some good interview and possibly life coaching. Something is causing the lack of callbacks. I suspect the parent is too close to be able to see and advise on it.

 

[Amethyst]

+1.

Although not a computer scientist myself, I worked with and even managed them. A surprising number, including a fellow manager, had been music majors and/or played in bands. I also worked with mathematicians; amazing how many played an instrument. This wasn't just my observation; people talked about it like there was a connection between the skill sets.

Doesn't mean OP's son wants to learn CS, but who knows? He's still young; the iron's still hot enough to strike

My career was in IT. I worked with many people who had great education and skills in this subject matter who couldn't find work in the music field. Best wishes.

 

[Chuckanut]

+1.

Although not a computer scientist myself, I worked with and even managed them. A surprising number, including a fellow manager, had been music majors and/or played in bands. I also worked with mathematicians; amazing how many played an instrument. This wasn't just my observation; people talked about it like there was a connection between the skill sets.

There's actually a lot of math in music. But, then there is math in everything. A very respected old priest once told me "Math is the language of God". One can find the Fibonacci sequence all over nature. The same with Pi. Math: It's here, it's there, it's everywhere.

There's a reason they call it a Piano.

Here's one example of the Fibonacci sequence in music.

The Fibonacci Sequence in music

The Fibonacci Sequence plays a big part in Western harmony and musical scales. Here are the facts:
– An octave on the piano consists of 13 notes. Eight are white keys and five are black keys.
– A scale is composed of eight notes, of which the third and fifth notes create the foundation of a basic chord
– In a scale, the dominant note is the fifth note, which is also the eighth note of all 13 notes that make up the octave.
– Eight divided by 13 equals 0.61538... the approximate Golden Ratio)
Starting to see a pattern? These are all numbers in the Fibonacci Sequence: 3, 5, 8, 13.

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/fibonacci-sequence-in-music/

Mozart arranged his piano sonatas so that the number of bars in the development and recapitulation divided by the number of bars in the exposition would equal approximately 1.618, the Golden Ratio.

Stradivari used the Fibonacci Sequence and the Golden Ratio to make his violins.

 

[EastWest Gal]

There have been many openings throughout the state. He won't teach inner city though. They'll eat him alive. Several openings in smaller school districts. In PA you have to be certified in a certain area to teach a subject. He is certified in instrumental and general music. He is not even allowed to teach vocal music. So you can't get a job teaching something else.

He also hired an interview coach, and has done mock interviews. One of his letters of recommendation is from a former boss, who is now Chief of Neonatology at Einstein Medical Center in Philadelphia. Another is from a recently retired band director who is now an advisor of student teaching at the local college where he got his masters. I think the problem mainly was that he went out of state for his bachelor's, did a double major, and ended up taking an extra year to finish all his course work. The two professors who ran the program have left. The one he knew the best retired when he was finishing his major and moved to Florida. The other professor left the program a couple of years ago, having taught himself some computer skills and is now an Android engineer for CVS! He found that too many of classmates partied a lot and networking was impossible. He connected with a grad student, who returned to Brazil.

So thanks all for your help. Much food for thought. My career path was well laid out, but DH had the same problem as DS.

Fortunately DS has some computer skills and can probably beef them up, as his former professor did, LOL.

 

[Jenna]

2 thoughts
1. hire a company online that will check his references to see what they are saying about him. https://www.allisontaylor dot com is one such company.
2. Start volunteering somewhere in the type of job he wants. Get that resume filled up with like jobs. Many companies use filtering software to find the best applicants. Keyword matter

 

[Bamaman]

It's unclear what kind of music related skills the DS has. Is he a musician or singer? Are his talents in music theory, arranging, etc.?

I'm from the Music City, Nashville. Professional musicians were everywhere in our community. Our high school band leader constantly would get the most incredible musicians (on their instruments) to work with our band(s) when they weren't doing recording sessions or whenever they were not on the road in backup bands.

It's often who you're friends with that get you the jobs in the music world. Masters' degrees are everywhere, and PhD's are not unheard of in Nashville. The ones that are the most successful are not classical musicians, and they're not jazz musicians. They're all kinds of musicians--doing all genres. Many will be members of 3-4 different symphonies too.

I know one guy that was on the road with Elton John for 12 years, and he's part of Lyle Lovett's Large Band 3-4 mos. of most years. His side line job was arranging orchestra charts for Andy Williams and Wayne Newton. And he's a session musician--in the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame.

Another gentleman quit high school at age 16 to play first trumpet for Woody Herman.
He was a hard core arranger--over in the corner at recording sessions writing arrangements for the next song they were going to record. His string arrangements were Ray Price's "For the Good Times, for example. He was Perry Como's producer even after his death. (And his daughter was Dolly Parton's sister in law.)

Many musicians in Nashville work at side line jobs. They may do mechanical work on musical instruments or string instruments. Some will work with artist management. Some will work with staging, sound systems and $1 million+ light bars and logistics. Most of the touring artists in the world use buses, transportation and staging engineered and built in Nashville--by musicians.

As you can tell, a music major is not just stuck playing a horn. There are so many other areas of the business they can work in. And unfortunately all of the jobs are not in rural Pennsylvania.

 

[GreenEggs]

There have been many openings throughout the state. He won't teach inner city though. They'll eat him alive. Several openings in smaller school districts. In PA you have to be certified in a certain area to teach a subject. He is certified in instrumental and general music. He is not even allowed to teach vocal music. So you can't get a job teaching something else.

So, he hasn't been able to get a job in 5 years and he won't even try teaching inner-city children? I'd think most kids would like music class. Why would they "eat him alive"?

It might not be easy, but it could lead to other opportunities.

 

[Ready]

My sister never “launched”. She lived with my parents her entire life until both of them passed. My Mom always insisted that she was trying hard to find work but there was always some reason why she either couldn’t get a job or hold a job. Being a mom she was never able to see my sister’s flaws. She only wanted to see the positives. It was always someone else’s fault when a job did not work out.

I’m not saying that any of this applies to the OP. But I think it can be difficult for loving parents to see what’s really happening with their adult children. It often takes someone outside the inner circle to see what’s really happening.

 

[Calico]

<snip>

He teaches privately and holds down a part-time morning job in the hospital I used to work. This is why I want to set up gifting for him. He doesn't mind living at his parents' house at all, and we don't either. <snip>

It is frustrating that someone with zero bad behavior issues-no drugs, no alcohol, no sexual bad behavior, whose joy is seeing people thrive in music-cannot land a job. Honestly, this is much harder than getting into medical school.

This is just a rant, but I'm open to suggestions.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but there is a thread of excuses and caveats running through the posts above.

The OP has stated the following:

DS won't teach kindergartners.
DS won't teach inner city kids.
Long term subbing is possible, but some of the jobs were "too far" or "the program wasn't good."

Networking isn't possible because former classmates were partiers.
References are hard to come by because former teachers/mentors moved on.
Jobs are few and far between in the area.

If the OP had a hand in getting DS the hospital job at her former place of employment, that indicates he has never had to scramble or fully apply himself to get a job.

If DS is completely happy to live at home, and "gifting" is on the table, how hard has he really been looking for a job?

When plans don't come to fruition, it isn't always someone else's fault. Eventually one has to look in the mirror.

If this sounds harsh, I am sorry.

 

[ivinsfan]

It's easy to look back and maybe realize looking for the "perfect" job kept someone from taking a "good enough" job.


I do think some young people have rose colored glasses when it comes to jobs and working conditions. To be fair kindergartners don't take music theory.



Any one of the things you mention aren't a big deal, but when you add them together they can make a problem. People with music majors in teaching might need to realize they can't have everything. As my brother always used to say "that's why they call it work."



But this young guy is working at two jobs so there is that.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Not holding a job in his field for 5 years is a giant red flag.

Also it's obvious he picked a career that is not in demand and generally not valued by society too much.
I had this issue when I took a social work, turns out society doesn't value it. So after 10 years I realized I'd eat dog food at retirement.

I went back to get another degree in something society valued, so they would pay me well. I took computer science and the world opened up to welcome me to work.

Possibly you son needs to change careers for a job, and do music as a hobby.

 

[brett]

Working hard does not cut it.

You have to hard AND work smart. That applies to job search, ambition, and making one's own opportunities.

You son needs to make a call. Continue as he is or change his horizon in terms of location, type of school, career.

It has been five years of the same old same old. Why would anyone magically expect this to change? So he either has to accept his life as it is or do something to change. Environment, location, career, whatever.

The longer this goes on, the less chance of him ever securing a position in his preferred occupation. Or indeed a career in a related occupation. Time for a major rethink and some soul searching IMHO. It is a competitive world out there. My background was accounting. Hated it. Made a change. Went into IT sales. Knew nothing about IT but I knew about business solutions, financial statements, payback etc. and I knew how to deal with the VP Finance/CIO types. Had a great career, loved every day, it was lucrative, and it led to other opportunities/personal growth, in various cities.

The very worst thing he can do is blame others for his situation. Self pity and/or resentment will show up like a shiny dime in an interview setting and cause his CV to end up in the round file. Just has it has been in past job interviews.

You cannot do it for him. Only he can make it happen. Whatever 'it' happens to be.

 

[springnr]

Your son might look into Palliative care music therapy. Someone at the hospital might be able to assist.

 

[plex]

Not surprisingly, the main points have been mentioned.

In his position I would have been really concerned about having a giant hole in my resume, so right after school/last year of school I would have searched the local opportunities. If the number of interviews were really low over that time and my credentials were good, I would have applied across the country and seen how things went for half a year. If that failed, I would have applied to English speaking countries too, and job's that were half related to my major. If ALL that failed, and it wasn't during the bottom of a recession, I'd have strongly considered either landlording or going back to school for a degree that was lucrative, because with a 4.0 from before, I'd certainly know I could study well in some lucrative right-brained career like marketing, business, etc....

I've thrown a successfully gained professional degree in the trash can myself due to market conditions, and it cost in the 6 figures, so I've been there, but I made that decision within months of finishing it, at the latest, not years...the greatest and most precious resource a person has in life is time.

 

[Amethyst]

A friend from work married a musician - a guitarist who plays gigs at restaurants, etc.

She is the breadwinner; he is not highly paid. OTOH, he keeps house and cooks (things she does not enjoy), and (according to her) his business expenses help with their combined tax bill.

So, there's that option.

 

[EastWest Gal]

DS has held jobs in his field during these past 5 years. Substitute teaching, where he made less than his part time job at the hospital, and which offers him a 401K and Roth 401K. His resume is long. He has worked in high school marching band, for one. He all the percussion scores in his last marching band job. The pandemic screwed that marching band job up. He’s teaching privately.

He will teach kindergarten as a substitute, but is not skilled at it. And he’s not certified in general elementary anyway. Plenty of teachers won’t teach in inner city, and shouldn’t. DS is a fine percussionist, a decent pianist, and a community band leader. He is trained to give beginner lessons on any instrument.

At his age I was $40K in debt. My parents were high functioning alcoholics. I had to get out. His NW is approaching $100K. He is learning the value of investing early, because we discuss it frequently.

There are professionals who live with their parents in their 40s. That may end up being his choice as well. It doesn’t make them unsuccessful. President Truman and his wife Bess lived with Bess’s mother until he became a senator. He moved in with her family when they married. Was he successful? I think so.

This is getting very unhelpful and a bit hurtful. I was looking for new ideas and have received some great suggestions, including career work in another field. But this thread is degenerating into unhelpful criticism as many of our threads do.

We all in this community wanted to stop working early. In fact, w%#k is a four letter word here. Yet some criticize to the point of insult people who struggle at the start of their career.

I thank those who offered suggestions and insights.

 

[street]

I wish your son the best and I hope someone gives him that opportunity in his profession.

When I was hiring people I would always hire young right out of college. They may have had a year or so experience but no more. I never hired people that had years of experience, that was done for many reasons.

The reasoning for hiring young people was to give them a chance and to start their career. I was more interested in good character and great attitude people, over knowledge of the job. We could always train that person the job but attitude and team players was more important to.

We had great people with great attitudes, that over achieved at their job.

 

[folivier]

Is him living with you keeping you from enjoying your retirement? If so then it's time to push him out. If not then quit complaining.
Not everyone is fortunate to make a career from their degree. I have a degree in Marine Biology which is still something I'm very interested in. But when I graduated in 1976 there were NO jobs in MB. So I pursued a different career path and have been enjoying retirement for 11 years now.
Time for him (and you) to change perspectives.

 

[Amethyst]

EWGal, you don't have to defend your son to anybody. He has nothing to apologize for.

People's perspectives differ, based on how things went for them, and what society was saying when they were your son's age. It's true that many on the forum could hardly wait to get away from w*rk, which is why they are anxious to see young people get an early start on accumulation. Which he seems to be doing, based on having $100K in his 401K already! That is the great thing about being able to live at home in your 20's; I wish I could have done it.

I'm confident things will work out fine for him.

There are professionals who live with their parents in their 40s. That may end up being his choice as well. It doesn’t make them unsuccessful....
This is getting very unhelpful and a bit hurtful.....

 

[eytonxav]

Aside from dealing with some tough medical issues and getting out of an abusive marriage, DD got a degree in psychology that she was never able to put to use and has had several suboptimal jobs. So now she is considering going back to school for a BSN and is living with us. What is personally frustrating to me is that I recommended that to her as a vocation when she first started college.

 

[Doribe]

I see I was repeating previous responses.

 

[ivinsfan]

I feel the great majority of us posting here have been positive and helpful. But you're right there are always one or two that have to jump in and "tell it like it is".(as they see it anyway)



In the next few years your son will probably make a few decisions. Maybe he finds a partner and take their input or opinion. Maybe he'll get tired of living at home and change job fields. Maybe he'll be open to travel and relocate.



Nothing you have told us about your boy leads me to be believe he'll have anything but a good fulfilling life. You've basically described a boy any of us would be proud to have in own family.



On the super critics posting here, WE ARE NOT OUR JOBS, and I would think most of us here strongly support that idea.

 

[ivinsfan]

Is him living with you keeping you from enjoying your retirement? If so then it's time to push him out. If not then quit complaining.
Not everyone is fortunate to make a career from their degree. I have a degree in Marine Biology which is still something I'm very interested in. But when I graduated in 1976 there were NO jobs in MB. So I pursued a different career path and have been enjoying retirement for 11 years now.
Time for him (and you) to change perspectives.

Where did you see the OP complaining? She said the whole family was frustrated that her son couldn't find a job in the field he loved and trained for. Also said they had no problems with him living at home.


Don't make stuff up.

 

[Dtail]

Aside from dealing with some tough medical issues and getting out of an abusive marriage, DD got a degree in psychology that she was never able to put to use and has had several suboptimal jobs. So now she is considering going back to school for a BSN and is living with us. What is personally frustrating to me is that I recommended that to her as a vocation when she first started college.

Psychology was my first college major choice, but my father pushed me to the Accounting side and was glad he did.
It would seem that Psychiatrists would have an advantage in being able to dispense drugs.

 

[ivinsfan]

Psychology was my first college major choice, but my father pushed me to the Accounting side and was glad he did.
It would seem that Psychiatrists would have an advantage in being able to dispense drugs.

Psych..I would have to loved to major in it, even back in the day it was kind of accepted you pretty much needed a masters for a not very great paying job.



Poly Sci is another one that goes back in that vein.