Failure to launch adult children

[EastWest Gal]

I, DH, and DS are really frustrated. DS is trained as a music educator with a masters degree. He has been trying to get a full time job for nearly five years. Jobs are a bit few and far between in his field, but this time of year there are many music education jobs and he has only landed a couple of preliminary interviews, and no follow-up interviews. His GPA was 3.7 at a major state university, and in the masters program he had a 4.0.

He teaches privately and holds down a part-time morning job in the hospital I used to work. This is why I want to set up gifting for him. He doesn't mind living at his parents' house at all, and we don't either. But we a really frustrated at the world, educating folks in a challenging field requiring as much talent and skills as anything I have ever done. Having taught procedural skills to medical students, I could pick out the instrumental musicians immediately, as the manual dexterity and the quick "muscle memory" was obvious.

It is frustrating that someone with zero bad behavior issues-no drugs, no alcohol, no sexual bad behavior, whose joy is seeing people thrive in music-cannot land a job. Honestly, this is much harder than getting into medical school.

This is just a rant, but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[brett]

One would think that after five years of trying to get a position to match his skills that he would either extend his search to other locales/ countries or perhaps seek out some sort of alternate full time career that would complement his education and skills.

At some point he has to deal with the reality of his situation. Sounds to me like that has not yet occurred.

One question...if he was independent and living on his own would it have taken him as long to either secure employment in his field, in a complementary field, or in another field?

It has zero to do with no behaviour issues. It speaks more to something else.

 

[ivinsfan]

For one thing, I think failure to launch isn't really the correct term for your boy.



I think of that as a late 20's high school grad smoking pot in Mom and Dad's basement.



Can you think of a reason he wouldn't be getting callbacks for interviews? In my limited local experience music teachers get hired and turn it into a lifetime job, turnover is unheard of. And it's helps if you are local or know the right person.


But you make an excellent point about how hard everything is in the music (and art) world.



Your son sounds like a good kid with a passion for something and that's a good thing. Maybe somebody else posting here has real life experience with music jobs...

 

[ivinsfan]

One would think that after five years of trying to get a position to match his skills that he would either extend his search to other locales/ countries or perhaps seek out some sort of alternate full time career that would complement his education and skills.

At some point he has to deal with the reality of his situation. Sounds to me like that has not yet occurred.

One question...if he was independent and living on his own would it have taken him as long to either secure employment in his field, in a complementary field, or in another field?

It has zero to do with no behaviour issues. It speaks more to something else.

What do you mean by something else? I think it's OK if Mom and Dad don't mind to let him live at home while he looks for something he's passionate about. The guy has two jobs...at some point music might need to be his passion and not his career but that's for the 3 of them to decide.

 

[Aerides]

Broadly, I would only think to suggest to him, were he the one asking: Expand your "field" to be a qualified educator, vs. a targeted music educator.

 

[ivinsfan]

Broadly, I would only think to suggest to him, were he the one asking: Expand your "field" to be a qualified educator, vs. a targeted music educator.

Also my DD who has a 4 year degree not Education related got licensed by our state as a substitute teacher. She did it because the schools were having staffing problems, got lots of work and really enjoyed it. She did mention if you sub a certain number of days a year your pay is increased. I understand there are no benefits but just an idea to think about.


OP's son could probably switch his part time job to evening or weekend.

 

[brett]

Perhaps he has poor interviewing skills.

Seems very unusual that he has not been able to get past the first interview. Which, in my world was…. did the candidate fog the mirror, did he/she pick his/her nose, or have any other personal habits or attire that would turn of any interviewer in the first thirty seconds off the interviewer. Strictly an HR screening interview prior to meeting any of the decision makers.

What seems very odd to me is not one second interview.

 

[ivinsfan]

Perhaps he has poor interviewing skills.

Seems very unusual that he has not been able to get past the first interview. Which, in my world was…. did the candidate fog the mirror, did he/she pick his/her nose, or have any other personal habits or attire that would turn of any interviewer in the first thirty seconds of the interview.

What seems very odd to me is not one second interview.

Maybe but we don't know the size of the applicant pool...many many schools are looking to expand their teaching demographics as well.

 

[momoftwo]

I can sympathize.

Our DS with music ed BS and masters found the job market difficult (almost 10 yrs ago).
He spent 8 months sending out apps and interviewing. He refused to expand his search outside of our highly competitive market.

He accepted a part time position that did morph into full time the following year.
He's been happy in this district since. He also continues to teach privately.

Would your son consider a larger search area? Or part time to start?
Or even subbing in a desired location to get into the system?

I wish your son the best.

 

[ivinsfan]

In case we all have forgotten, education in the U.S. has been "scaling back" non-core subjects for a few decades now. It's even hard to get a teaching job, as my granddaughter has been a sub for a few years and no new openings for even lower grades.

This is very location dependent too.. but I can't agree about music or art I think they have stayed in most schools. IMO art and music are considered core subjects.

 

[travelover]

It can be hard to evaluate our kids objectively. With no second interviews, I think there may be something that needs some coaching to overcome. It would be good to get feedback from a third party to see what might be going on.

 

[Montecfo]

It seems unusual. Expand search area and perhaps get some interview coaching?

Perhaps he could seek some "honest feedback" from someone he interviewed with?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[vrijheid]

I, DH, and DS are really frustrated. DS is trained as a music educator with a masters degree. He has been trying to get a full time job for nearly five years. Jobs are a bit few and far between in his field, but this time of year there are many music education jobs and he has only landed a couple of preliminary interviews, and no follow-up interviews. His GPA was 3.7 at a major state university, and in the masters program he had a 4.0.



He teaches privately and holds down a part-time morning job in the hospital I used to work. This is why I want to set up gifting for him. He doesn't mind living at his parents' house at all, and we don't either. But we a really frustrated at the world, educating folks in a challenging field requiring as much talent and skills as anything I have ever done. Having taught procedural skills to medical students, I could pick out the instrumental musicians immediately, as the manual dexterity and the quick "muscle memory" was obvious.



It is frustrating that someone with zero bad behavior issues-no drugs, no alcohol, no sexual bad behavior, whose joy is seeing people thrive in music-cannot land a job. Honestly, this is much harder than getting into medical school.



This is just a rant, but I'm open to suggestions.

Another area that may need to be viewed from the potential employers perspective is your son’s social media. In this day and age, this aspect weighs heavily with potential employers. Just a suggestion.

 

[USGrant1962]

...many many schools are looking to expand their teaching demographics as well.

Ah yes, the unspoken and legal(ish) discrimination. I got it 37 years ago when at the end of a plant visit/interview in Allentown I was told "you were great, BUT 3/4 of our college hire positions are reserved for female engineers", which were maybe 25% of engineering graduates back then.

 

[SecondCor521]

One resource he might try in terms of interviewing is the career office at either of the schools where he got his two degrees. They should be willing to do practice interviews with him to pinpoint why he's not getting further in the interview process.

If he's not getting enough initial interviews, that means either there's something wrong with his resume, or he's applying for positions for which he is either overqualified or underqualified. The schools' career offices should be able to help with those two points also. Is he applying to public schools? Private schools? High school? Elementary? University? Is he certified? Has he passed his Praxis exams?

One point an educator friend of mine mentioned that I didn't think about is that in many states, a masters degree might be a mixed blessing. The state mandates that masters degree holders get paid a certain amount more, and for smaller or more rural school districts, they may have budgetary issues and may not be able to afford the higher required salary and therefore have to limit themselves to people who are certified but only have a bachelor's degree. If the same is true where you are, he might have better luck in larger, more well funded school districts in larger cities.

My DD19 is pursuing a BME and I didn't realize how challenging and amazing the degree is compared to many others. Your son deserves credit for successfully getting through both the undergrad and master's level degrees in that area.

 

[ivinsfan]

Ah yes, the unspoken and legal(ish) discrimination. I got it 37 years ago when at the end of a plant visit/interview in Allentown I was told "you were great, BUT 3/4 of our college hire positions are reserved for female engineers", which were maybe 25% of engineering graduates back then.

These things are what they are and we don't want to wander OT from the original post.

 

[brett]

Thisi is not about grade levels. Or anything else.

It is about competition for a position. I do not know of any employer who invests in the screening process or the interview process unless their is a high degree of certainty that a position will become available.

HR screens the resumes. HR does the first screening interview. After that the hiring folks take it to the next interview. A quick preliminary reference check may take place.

The first interview is crucial. First cut, post CV review.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Ah yes, the unspoken and legal(ish) discrimination. I got it 37 years ago when at the end of a plant visit/interview in Allentown I was told "you were great, BUT 3/4 of our college hire positions are reserved for female engineers", which were maybe 25% of engineering graduates back then.

We have considered that possibility, so it is not off topic. But male school teachers are a rarity except in music.

I think it is the competitive issue in Pennsylvania. They graduate too many music ed majors. This is sad, because DS has an insane amount of music knowledge. He has had interview training. His only online presence is streaming group videogames (only Zelda Ocarina of Time) and snowboarding. He has a Facebook account in which he does not post at all. No rants, no partying, nothing. His idea of a party is enjoying the pool and group videogames. We're thinking go for long term sub teaching, and being selective about the positions he chooses. All of these suggestions are along the lines of what we were thinking.

He would love to live near the mountains for winter sports, but most states want you to have 3 years teaching experience before you can get a license within the state. He looked into Colorado years ago and that was the case there. He has applied all over the state (PA). It's harder to get a school teacher's license than a physician's license in most states. Even quacks seem to be able to get medical licenses, unfortunately.

 

[Vacation4us]

I worked with a nurse who had a master degree in music. She sang opera. Her mother was an OB GYN who taught her to scrub on mission trips. When working as a singer didn’t pay the bills she went back to school for nursing.

Obviously your son is smart and can handle school. Maybe a new profession will lead to success.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It can be hard to evaluate our kids objectively. With no second interviews, I think there may be something that needs some coaching to overcome. It would be good to get feedback from a third party to see what might be going on.

+1. Maybe try a career coach or some Dale Carnegie type interviewing skills classes.

 

[brett]

Delete

 

[brett]

You are doing the right thing. The big WHY.

Just don’t make the mistake of making excuses like discrimination, etc. It may work for some interviews but not all.

Has your son ever asked why he did not make it past the first interview as mentioned above.

Or did some post hire research to determine who did get the position and what their qualifications were or what their job experience was?

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

We have considered that possibility, so it is not off topic. But male school teachers are a rarity except in music.

In our school district, that's not the case at all. Lots of male teachers in both our local elementary school and in the high school (not teaching music).

He would love to live near the mountains for winter sports, but most states want you to have 3 years teaching experience before you can get a license within the state. He looked into Colorado years ago and that was the case there. He has applied all over the state (PA). It's harder to get a school teacher's license than a physician's license in most states. Even quacks seem to be able to get medical licenses, unfortunately.

Our DS #2 graduated with a Math teaching degree from West Chester University (PA) at the end of 2019 and was able to get a full time job in a Virginia school district for the fall of 2020. Virginia accepted his PA license, so you might want to check out Virginia.

 

[jollystomper]

One resource he might try in terms of interviewing is the career office at either of the schools where he got his two degrees. They should be willing to do practice interviews with him to pinpoint why he's not getting further in the interview process.

+1

In addition, I did not see mention of any "network" he has built up through his school - with old professors, fellow students, etc. - that could help him with potential leads. Working with his college's career office (hopefully they have a good one) might be able to help. For example, my college set up a network where one could be available to speak to students and other alumns interested in your field. It has helped to build contact networks that can leads to additional job opportunities.

Also, if he is doing private teaching, are any of his students or the families willing to be references for him?

Finally, this is a world where one must use the internet to market oneself in competitive fields. Has he considered using YouTube to publish short videos of his skills, has a blog, perform music in volunteer situations (like community organizations), etc.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

+1

In addition, I did not see mention of any "network" he has built up through his school - with old professors, fellow students, etc. - that could help him with potential leads. Working with his college's career office (hopefully they have a good one) might be able to help. For example, my college set up a network where one could be available to speak to students and other alumns interested in your field. It has helped to build contact networks that can leads to additional job opportunities.

Also, if he is doing private teaching, are any of his students or the families willing to be references for him?

Finally, this is a world where one must use the internet to market oneself in competitive fields. Has he considered using YouTube to publish short videos of his skills, has a blog, perform music in volunteer situations (like community organizations), etc.

Good post. We have one adult kid who is in a do what you love kind of field where there is a lot of competition for jobs, but networking, volunteering and joining lots of related clubs helped with the resume and references.