Road Rage Self-Check?

[redduck]

But it's not just me. It's the 10 people behind me also. And it's not one day. It's everyday she drives. And, any of us can still get hit by someone running the light whether we wait 1, 3 or 20 seconds. Net, all that's accomplished is wasting time & gas.

How much do you care about the people behind you at a traffic light? I never thought about those drivers behind me wasting time and gas. Now that you've called it to my attention, I still don't care. I also would imagine the chances of getting hit lessen by someone running a red light if one waits three seconds.

Seems me and Uncle Gerntz have a lot in common

My experience is that it's BECAUSE Aunt Tinlizzy is in no particular hurry to get through the lights that the next one is always turning red just as we get there.

There is a cost to all those extra minutes of idling at each light; time, productivity, fuel and wear and tear.

I know some retirees have a hard time with this concept, but some people really do have a good reason to get somewhere on time. It's kinda the whole reason we invented automobiles, and paved roads.

If you have a reason to get somewhere on time, the obvious solution is to leave earlier whether you are leaving by car or by horseback. And, have you ever figured out how much the fuel, wear and tear is costing you? Additionally, I doubt automobiles and paved roads came about so we could get places on time.

One last suggestion (although I'm not promising): Maybe you and Uncle gerntz could ride together and cut the wear and tear and wasted fuel in about half. I know we still have the wasted time problem, but maybe it doesn't amount to all that much time.

 

[CaptTom]

How much do you care about the people behind you at a traffic light? I never thought about those drivers behind me wasting time and gas. Now that you've called it to my attention, I still don't care.

And that's really at the root of it, isn't it?

I was brought up to show a little respect to others. I honestly believe most people share those values. Although some days, one inconsiderate driver can shake that belief.

We invest in cars, roads and infrastructure for a reason. Before that, we raised horses, dug canals and built railroads for the same reason. Transportation is at the foundation of our society. Everything we eat, everything we produce, our entire economy depends on an efficient system of transportation.

We as a society have invested in all this because it's important to MOST of us that we efficiently transport ourselves, goods and services.

There are people who want to contribute to society. They build things, they produce things, they help others, they do what they can to make the world a better place.

And there are those who don't care, who destroy things, who take, who put themselves first, who get in the way of others trying to contribute.

Each of us decides which group we'd like to belong to.

 

[Sunset]

When I'm at a red light, I look both ways before going, to be sure nobody is speeding up to the light and going to run it.
Normally the cars are already stopped by the time my light turns green, so it does not take long, but often there is someone turning on the yellow/red as they waited to do a left.
Ramming their car seems like a big waste of time, so I'm forced to wait for them.

Bugs me when the fellow stuck in the middle of the intersection does his turn on the yellow, but the infuriating thing is when the one behind him, which could remain, also decides to go for it.

 

[gerntz]

How much do you care about the people behind you at a traffic light? I never thought about those drivers behind me wasting time and gas. Now that you've called it to my attention, I still don't care. I also would imagine the chances of getting hit lessen by someone running a red light if one waits three seconds.

Actually, I think about those drivers a lot. That's why I concentrate on getting moving - with full awareness of the other directions' traffic - as quickly as possible so as many as possible get thru the light. Backed up turn lanes are the worst.

EXCEPT, when I'm at a light that I know changes to the other direction as soon as there is no traffic in my direction - a lot of those in our area if you're on the lower flow direction. If I'm last in line, I look to the rear & actually stop at the green light to let the car behind get close enough to also get thru so that they don't have to wait thru an entire light cycle wasting their gas & time.

I imagine waiting 60 seconds after the light turn further reduces your chances. Just what is so magical about 3 seconds vs. more or less? I'll suggest that full awareness is more important than looking at a watch for three seconds towards reducing the risk of being hit at an intersection.

 

[ERD50]

You missed the point entirely which was to delay driving into the intersection (after the light turned green) in case a car ran the red light from your left or right. Taking off the emergency brake and putting the vehicle into gear will take a 123 count.

I'm not worried about your time or fuel.

Yes, it's clear you're not concerned about others' time & fuel usage. So considerate of you.

I would say that gerntz needs to look at it from tinlizzy's POV.

tinlizzy is doing this for valid safety reasons. I think we were all taught that "green" does not mean "go" - "green" means "check both ways, and proceed when safe to do so".

So gerntz need to consider tinlizzy's safety, and I really doubt that a three-count is going to cost considerable time/fuel. Especially compared to an accident.

-ERD50

 

[gerntz]

Bugs me when the fellow stuck in the middle of the intersection does his turn on the yellow, but the infuriating thing is when the one behind him, which could remain, also decides to go for it.

I was taught to pull well into the intersection while waiting to make a left turn -and I do. I'm usually to mid-intersection, sometimes past. If traffic the other directions is full the entire light, of course I have to turn on the yellow - saving both myself & those behind me time. I hate those that sit back from the intersection waiting to turn & then sit there when the light turns yellow. What a waste.

 

[gerntz]

I would say that gerntz needs to look at it from tinlizzy's POV.

tinlizzy is doing this for valid safety reasons. I think we were all taught that "green" does not mean "go" - "green" means "check both ways, and proceed when safe to do so".

So gerntz need to consider tinlizzy's safety, and I really doubt that a three-count is going to cost considerable time/fuel. Especially compared to an accident.

-ERD50

If I hadn't considered it, I wouldn't have disagreed with her. There's nothing magical about three seconds to reducing accident risk that I know of. If there is, let me know the data source. And no where have a said that you don't need to be aware of the traffic around you.

But what I don't know is why you think you have to say what I need to do.

 

[tinlizzy]

But it's not just me. It's the 10 people behind me also. And it's not one day. It's everyday she drives. And, any of us can still get hit by someone running the light whether we wait 1, 3 or 20 seconds. Net, all that's accomplished is wasting time & gas.

I'm a UPS driver and those are safety precautions we follow everyday. There are 100,000 of us on the road each day and I would guess that you've never been inconvenienced by how we drive because our reaction time to a light turning green is faster than the average driver. My three second wait is probably just when everyone else looks up from their phone and notices that the light has changed.

 

[tinlizzy]

Seems me and Uncle Gerntz have a lot in common



My experience is that it's BECAUSE Aunt Tinlizzy is in no particular hurry to get through the lights that the next one is always turning red just as we get there.



There is a cost to all those extra minutes of idling at each light; time, productivity, fuel and wear and tear.



I know some retirees have a hard time with this concept, but some people really do have a good reason to get somewhere on time. It's kinda the whole reason we invented automobiles, and paved roads.

I don't think UPS drivers are known for wasting time and I can say that UPS definitely cares more about time, productivity, fuel and wear and tear than any other business with a fleet of vehicles.

Safety can be synonymous with speed and accuracy - no excuses.

 

[CaptTom]

I don't think UPS drivers are known for wasting time and I can say that UPS definitely cares more about time, productivity, fuel and wear and tear than any other business with a fleet of vehicles.

Safety can be synonymous with speed and accuracy - no excuses.

Totally agree. I don't recall ever seeing a UPS driver do the stupid things that waste time for other drivers. If there are two lanes, getting behind a big brown truck is always preferable to getting behind an old person who's in no particular hurry to get anywhere, or a driver who cares about no-one but himself, or anyone with their head down pecking on a cell phone.

I've developed a "pecking order" of who I try to get behind, and who I try to avoid. It's full of stereotypes, but more often than not, I can predict what other drivers will do before they even know they're going to do it. I suspect UPS drivers, and anyone else who spends a lot of time behind the wheel, can do the same thing.

 

[kombat]

I'm a UPS driver and those are safety precautions we follow everyday.

OK, but presumably, you're still checking to ensure there is no cross-traffic, right? I mean, surely you're not just counting to 3, and then blindly venturing out into the intersection.

So I think what the rest of us are wondering is, if you're already visually verifying that it's safe to proceed, why wait the arbitrary 3 seconds? What does it accomplish, besides wasting everybody's time? If it's safe to go, then go. If it's not, then don't. Silently chanting "One Mississippi ... two Mississippi ..." to yourself doesn't buy you any additional safety.

I know it doesn't sound like much, but 3 seconds in traffic is actually quite a long time to be staring at a green light. If I were behind such a driver, that would definitely be long enough to elicit a "Wake up, it's green" honk from me.

 

[ERD50]

OK, but presumably, you're still checking to ensure there is no cross-traffic, right? I mean, surely you're not just counting to 3, and then blindly venturing out into the intersection.

So I think what the rest of us are wondering is, if you're already visually verifying that it's safe to proceed, why wait the arbitrary 3 seconds? What does it accomplish, besides wasting everybody's time? If it's safe to go, then go. If it's not, then don't. Silently chanting "One Mississippi ... two Mississippi ..." to yourself doesn't buy you any additional safety.

I know it doesn't sound like much, but 3 seconds in traffic is actually quite a long time to be staring at a green light. If I were behind such a driver, that would definitely be long enough to elicit a "Wake up, it's green" honk from me.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Look left with a "1000-1" count, look right with a "1000-2" count, look straight ahead to make sure nothing changed in the past 2 seconds with a "1000-3" count, and proceed if clear.

When I was teaching my kids to drive, I always told them to scan left, scan right, and quickly back again before proceeding (I didn't specify a count though). I always try to do it myself - every once in a while I find myself going "whoah - where did that car come from?" as I scan back. Maybe I missed it, maybe it popped out from behind someone.

Safety can save time. Accidents take up a lot of time.

edit to add: I might honk after 3 seconds if I see the driver's head is down, likely on the phone. But if I see their head actively checking traffic, no way am I going to honk.

-ERD50

 

[CaptTom]

I'd never heard the 3-second rule. I'm glad you explained that it's not just counting mindlessly. Normally I defer to professional drivers like UPS folks as the true experts on these issues.

But if you're driving - even if you're stopped at a red light - you should maintain situational awareness. In other words, by the time the light turns green, you should already know if anyone's coming from the right or left.

If you're waiting for the light to turn green before starting to scan your surroundings, I'd humbly suggest you're not a very proficient driver.

My experience is that the drivers who do not pay attention while the light is red, then start looking around as if they were startled that it turned green, are the worst on the road.

I always briefly scan right and left before pulling away from a light. But I can do that in the time it takes me to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator. I have to agree that three seconds at a green light is an eternity. Some lights will change to amber if they detect no motion in about that much time, which would really irritate those waiting behind.

 

[ERD50]

I'd never heard the 3-second rule. I'm glad you explained that it's not just counting mindlessly. Normally I defer to professional drivers like UPS folks as the true experts on these issues.

But if you're driving - even if you're stopped at a red light - you should maintain situational awareness. In other words, by the time the light turns green, you should already know if anyone's coming from the right or left.

If you're waiting for the light to turn green before starting to scan your surroundings, I'd humbly suggest you're not a very proficient driver. ....

Who said that this is in place of being aware at all times? No one that I saw. It's not a substitute for situational awareness. But when the light changes, the situation has changed. It deserves a "once-twice-thrice" review before proceeding.

A three count, is not an eternity.

-ERD50

 

[dasranger]

Count to three in Brookfield WI and you'll be driven out of town. Foolishness.

 

[Free bird]

Ah the expert driver thread. Watch Russian dash cam crash videos & you'll see some more experts.

 

[dvalley]

This morning taking my kid to school I was merging on to the main road from my house. I see a white Camry approaching I wait for it to pass then merge behind it. Next we're approaching a red light...I lift off the gas and the camry starts braking...and completely stops about 60 ft before before the light and then slowly starts to creep up. I move over to the next lane not wanting to deal with the idiot driver. I look over and it's a younger woman fully distracted (phone, drink etc). Whatever.

The light turns green, now the car in front of me a silver Rav4 is going at a snails pace while the Camry passes me on my right. Ugh. OK whatever. So I get back over behind the Camry (which is quite a bit further ahead now) and start to pass the RAV4. The RAV4 driver now punches it and beats me to the next light. The light turns green and the RAV4 takes off, the Camry in front of me doesn't. So I get back behind the RAV4 and then pass the Camry, move over to pass the RAV4 but now the RAV4 wants to drag race me. Having had enough of these two morons I punch it and beat the RAV4 who's about to get blocked by a pickup truck up ahead in in his lane (left lane). This ass pulls into the oncoming traffic lane (no cars coming in that direction) and passes the truck at which point I braked and let him get in front of me (now on a one lane highway). Only for him to slow back down to slower than the speed limit for the next 24 miles. I was furious but with my kid in the car I'd already done enough stupidity for my conscience than I was willing to. I drove normally the rest of the way but still angry at them at first and then at myself for allowing myself to react to their stupid behavior.

What's odd is that I never tail gated, used my blinkers to switch lanes. I passed the RAV4 at approx speed limit when he decided to suddenly drag race me.

 

[easysurfer]

Glad that you exercised self-restraint.

If it makes you feel better, a few months ago I almost got hit while riding my bicycle over something stupid. I was just passing this stopped car as the person starting pulling away and almost side swiped me. When the passed me and was clueless a bicyclist was even there as she was busy texting, staring at her phone.

 

[dvalley]

@easysurfer - yikes, glad you're ok. Honestly, it's why I gave up riding motorcycles - even bicycles I only ride on the sidewalks of busy streets.

 

[CaptTom]

...The light turns green, now the car in front of me a silver Rav4 is going at a snails pace while the Camry passes me on my right. Ugh. OK whatever. So I get back over behind the Camry (which is quite a bit further ahead now) and start to pass the RAV4...

What's odd is that I never tail gated, used my blinkers to switch lanes. I passed the RAV4 at approx speed limit when he decided to suddenly drag race me.

LOL, welcome to MY world! That first part (the dueling slowpokes) describes just about every time I'm on a road with 2 lanes in my direction and stop lights.

And that attitude from the Rav4; "I want to go slow, but I want to do it in FRONT of you!" is something I see a lot.

Glad you didn't let the whole thing escalate into road rage. Backing off and letting the arrogant SOB think he won was the right move.

 

[MRG]

People do really stupid things. Sometimes they don't know why. I'm always reminded of a incident I wittnessed 40 years ago.

A guys car hit my buddies truck in a parking lot. Guy didn't have insurance or cash.

I used to work with this guy logging and he was a country boy with a crazy streak. Long story but he ended up chopping the other guys car up with his axe. About 20 people witnessed. It's pretty amazing the amount of damages an axe can do to a vehicle.

The owner got riled at one time and suggested he was calling the cops! My buddy looked at him, said go ahead. All these people heard me ask you it it was OK! The guy thought my buddy was bluffing, he didn't bluff.

Sometimes it's good to walk away. Other times it's good to own the axe!

 

[kaneohe]

I wonder how often someone is honked at for being an idiot and they blame it on road rage instead of their own stupidity??

It's not road rage if you honk at someone that cut you off or who made an unsafe lane change.

be careful where you do this.....in CA you can get a ticket for honking.
DW did after following someone who was moseying along well below speed limit in the center lane acting as if they wanted to turn somewhere but giving no signals. She challenged by going to traffic court and fortunately the judge accepted her novel defense that she was tooting and not honking. It was especially sweet because officer was there. .......but you can't count on that happening every time.