Saving too much?

Nords said:
Too bad he didn't pick up the breakfast tab-- you guys sure paid for that meal in more ways than one. Sounds like you need a new "friend".

Actually this guy never comes to breakfast, unless my other good friend begs him and tells him that 'he'll buy' Resturants are wayyyy to expensive for him! - So the only way I knew this guy was through my 76 year old friend.

He's a kind hearted old soul and his future is a nursing home at best. :(
 
d said:
so some of you know people who you think have saved too much ... do they think they have? have you saved too much?

This is kind of a question like? - Asking a genie for any amount of money and that wish would be granted.

How much money would you wish for?

More than Bill Gates has?

What's your answer d?
 
Nords said:
Judging from the pay scales & real estate values he's easily worth $2M even if he's paying alimony. But he just can't turn it off! It'd be one thing if he waxed enthusiastic about the inner-city kids he's helping or the charitable foundation he's building. Instead he looks like he's one step away from living on the streets and he seems to lead a cheerless existence.

Sounds like this chap needs an intervention.

Plenty of people (most, perhaps) don't really know what is in their own best interest. Many people (most, perhaps) do things because they are expected to do them (i.g. get married, have kids, work long hours and years, etc. etc.). Many of these people (most, perhaps) would do things differently if only they took the time to reflect on what they really wanted out of life and then had the courage to break with convention, take some risks, and go for it.

Timidity is also an affliction of old (and middle) age.
 
HaHa said:
Why are people who choose to save more than we ourselves might save such a frequent target for complaint on this board? After all this is a board about LBYM and getting free of the system. These so called misers have done that in spades.

Ha

I think what is a target on this board most frequently is the vast numbers of spenders across America with credit card debt, Living above your means etc. etc. - We all know you can't get to ER without some self control. This is usually the rant!

We have also seen the folks at the other end of the spectrum, where spending is painful - where all of life's pleasures are a 'waste of money'


Either end of the spectrum is not to be emulated or admired!
 
The article also does not take into account the peace of mind that a big ol'
pile of savings can bring, even in the working years. When I was in my 20's
and 30's I always felt much better having already saved a good sum rather
than a pile of debt, so that replacing a car or paying for a vacation was a
minor event and not a crippling blow, or that if it took a year to find a new
job during the recessions it would not be a catastrophe. This reduction in
stress was worth far more than buying more garbage (TVs, new cars, clothes)
to pile around the house.
 
3 Yrs to Go said:
Sounds like this chap needs an intervention.

Plenty of people (most, perhaps) don't really know what is in their own best interest. Many people (most, perhaps) do things because they are expected to do them (i.g. get married, have kids, work long hours and years, etc. etc.). Many of these people (most, perhaps) would do things differently if only they took the time to reflect on what they really wanted out of life and then had the courage to break with convention, take some risks, and go for it.

Timidity is also an affliction of old (and middle) age.

Well, you certainly get an A for arrogance with the above quote. ;)

I'm with Ha on this one.

The real question that I would have re: this thread, is why so many of you
feel the need to be critical of somebody else's lifestyle?

For me personally, I've had my hands full in my life, handeling our situation.

Good luck on the conversion, though. ;)
 
What's your answer d?
to which question? to my own:
i know of no one who has saved too much, but many who have saved too little. i know of no one who thinks they have saved too much, many who realize they have saved too little, and a fair number who feel comfortable with their level of savings. i certainly have not saved too much ... if i felt that i had, i'd simply stop saving.
 
Jarhead* said:
The real question that I would have re: this thread, is why so many of you
feel the need to be critical of somebody else's lifestyle?

Ding! Ding! Ding!
 
Mr._johngalt said:
You all know my story. I too thought of C-T when this topic came up.

Looking back, I don't feel a bit deprived based on the "saving"
I did in my youth (really didn't do any); nor do I feel a bit deprived now, even though I have
scaled way back from my "salad days". Pretty much sailed through life
doing what I wanted, when I wanted (both ex's will confirm this). It's been quite a party.

JG

You bet....I will attest to this....emotionally constipated self absorption was the one "firm" thing throughout. ;)


Moderator edit: quote fix.
 
I just love this comment in the article........

“There is risk in saving too much,” Mr. Kotlikoff said. “You could end up squandering your youth rather than your money.”

So you have to squander your money to enjoy it.

I my have saved too much for retirement, but I'm not the one that will be looking for a part time job at 75 because the price of cat food just went up. :D
 
sallie4th said:
You bet....I will attest to this....emotionally constipated self absorption was the one "firm" thing throughout. ;)


Moderator edit: quote fix.

Sallie4: I was just going to turn in, decided to stay up for a while.

Welcome to the board. :D
 
Some people can never be too rich or too thin.
 
sallie4th said:
You bet....I will attest to this....emotionally constipated self absorption was the one "firm" thing throughout. ;)


Moderator edit: quote fix.

Sallie4th...the perfect antidote for (Galt)stones. Pleased to meet you. ;)
 
UncleHoney said:
I just love this comment in the article........

“There is risk in saving too much,” Mr. Kotlikoff said. “You could end up squandering your youth rather than your money.”

So you have to squander your money to enjoy it. 

Maybe we here at the early-retirement forum should look at this warning in a different light.  The squandering of youth could be accomplished by working longer than is neccessary and the saving too much could be wanting too large a nest egg before pulling the trigger on retirement.
 
UncleHoney said:
I may have saved too much for retirement, but I'm not the one that will be looking for a part time job at 75 because the price of cat food just went up. :D

Exactly. This is a great motivation to save, as well as the desire to live somewhere other than under a freeway overpass or bridge at that age, and to have shoes that don't need to be stuffed with newspaper.

If media predictions are right, there will be plenty of other baby boomers in dire straits in 20-30 years, so why add to those numbers?

I'm sure I can think of something to do with any excess $$$ (or if not, my daughter would be glad to help me out in that endeavor).
 
jdw_fire said:
Maybe we here at the early-retirement forum should look at this warning in a different light. The squandering of youth could be accomplished by working longer than is neccessary and the saving too much could be wanting too large a nest egg before pulling the trigger on retirement.

jdw, that is a good way of looking at it, a totally different perspective than the way I read the article. One thing this article does provoke is the importance of getting a balance in your life, between having the wants in your life and saving to reach your financial goals.
 
UncleHoney said:
“There is risk in saving too much,” Mr. Kotlikoff said. “You could end up squandering your youth rather than your money.”

So you have to squander your money to enjoy it.

I my have saved too much for retirement, but I'm not the one that will be looking for a part time job at 75 because the price of cat food just went up. :D

I agree UH...I'd say that the quote from Kotlikoff is yet another sad instance of our consumerism. "If you're saving a large % of your income, it's physically impossible to be having a good time. Ergo, you are saving too much and 'squandering' your youth since you aren't spending enough, regardless of what your income/savings levels are and what your goals/needs are".

d said:
this suggests that an individual will get more present value "utility" from current than from future consumption, which is most likely true for most all individuals. but, this fails to recognize that current savings also provides "utility". further, it fails to take into account "diminishing marginal utility".

The only problem with this is that a consumer would have to have a perfect understanding of what their utility is present-day, and estimate what their utility will be when they're 70. The problem is that most people are too short-sighted to think about how they'll pay next year's mortgage payment for life at 70, so they can't really perform a true utility comparison. They hear the ads for the latest HDTV and only think about that, and assign a utility value of "0" to having that $3,000 invested @ 7% for 30 years since many of them also don't understand compound interest (i.e. they think saving $3,000/year for 30 years isn't that much different than saving $30,000/year for 3 years in their later years).
 
I never felt like I was saving to much or giving anything up when I was in my 20s - almost all the savings were in 401K maxed with co. match. The rest of my income was for life/buying a house and having fun. As I made more $ and had the house/toys - that $ was saved/invested. I always knew I wanted to be FI and ER but I never obsessed over it -I was to busy!
Thank God I did save "enough" though - When I burned out...it happened pretty fast 3-5 years I went from pretty happy w/ my career to numb and burnt. W/O the savings from my 20s/property bought along the way and saving of all bonuses/raises etc...I would have been SOL -
 
(from the original article:)
From one extreme:

"Fidelity’s Retirement Quick Check calculator says that a 50-year-old person making $100,000 a year with $700,000 stashed in retirement accounts, saving $15,000 a year, would still fall short of the $2.8 million goal that would provide the necessary monthly retirement income of $7,408 that it sets. Its calculations do not include Social Security payments.

Fidelity actually recommends saving about $1,000 a month more. It also encourages this person to save more even when more than enough has been saved. It recommends putting away up to $9,749 a month on top of the $15,000 a year already being saved, an impossibility since that would more than consume the person’s entire gross income."

...to the other extreme...

"Mr. Kotlikoff’s ESPlanner software, taking real estate holdings and life insurance into account, says the person could cut back on savings by $10,000 a year and still have enough for a monthly income of $6,000 at retirement, the amount his calculations deems adequate to live on given prior consumption patterns."

Either Kotlikoff is yet another schiester (sp) or is truly ignorant. Fidelity's "Quick Check" (anyone else note the obvious in the Fidelity calculator's title? It's like comparing a raw block of marble to a Michaelangelo sculpture) simply looks at the total equivalent financial assets you'll need. Kotlikoff's program, on the other hand, apparently goes so far as to assume reverse mortgages ("taking real estate holdings") and - I think, but I'm just guessing - cashing in/loans against whole life insurance policies ("life insurance"). Sure, if you go to those extremes, I won't need anywhere near 25x income in my portfolio...because my investment portfolio will only be 2/3 of my total equivalent financial assets (the other 1/3 being a reverse mortgage and cashing in a life insurance policy). If you ask me, betting on what interest rates will be 30-40 years from now on assuming reverse mortgage cash flow would be perhaps the most difficult part of retirement planning.

Another sad quote:

"Indeed, their studies of the savings and spending habits of the generation born between 1931 and 1941 revealed that at least 80 percent had accumulated more than enough wealth for retirement."

Gee....considering that those 80% are receiving SS payments that far eclipse what they ever paid into it, I surely hope that they ended up accumulating more than enough wealth. Give me the same 5%-7% annual returns on my SS contributions that they ended up getting, and I'll be sitting pretty as well.
 
Again either extreme of Saving too little or saving too much is not desired.

To some posters on this forum the belief seems to be "If I buy this Flat Screen TV, I'll have to eat cat food when I'm 80" - But, if I don't buy the TV, I won't have to get a job as a Walmart greeter when I'm 70 and can eat people food".

Anyone else see happy medium here? :confused:
 
My big concern is that people like this will cause people save even less so down the road, people will have less. Then some "consumer activist" will not consider this inequal income distribution fair and want taxes on it.

While this may seem far fetch, at the recent Senate hearings, someone called for annual fees on people pay off their balances in full because it wasn't "fair". See more here http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/25/pf/credit_card_senate_hearing/index.htm?postversion=2007012612
 
bssc said:
My big concern is that people like this will cause people save even less so down the road, people will have less. Then some "consumer activist" will not consider this inequal income distribution fair and want taxes on it.

While this may seem far fetch, at the recent Senate hearings, someone called for annual fees on people pay off their balances in full because it wasn't "fair". See more here http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/25/pf/credit_card_senate_hearing/index.htm?postversion=2007012612

Yeah, It isn't fair to the credit card industry! This has nothing to do with fairness to the consumer, it's all about profit for the credit card companies.

The someone is paid by the credit card company!

"But in a Senate Banking Committee hearing examining credit card practices this week, one consumer advocate suggested those who pay their balances in full every month (about half of all cardholders) should pay a small annual fee to credit card companies.
 
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