You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink

[Music Lover]

I've told this story before. A friend built a house about 12-13 years ago and everything cost more than he thought. When it was done he had a 30-year mortgage at age 48 that was so high that he had to occasionally dip into savings just to meet monthly payments. He was losing sleep and as he approached retirement age (55 govt) he realized that he could not retire and still make the mortgage payments.

He sold the house for a bit of a profit and moved to an apartment. You think that he'd be happy to be debt free but that lasted 6 months. He then left work early taking both an age and time of service penalty and ended up with 80% of a 60% pension. But wait, there's more. He sold a paid off 8-year old Toyota Rav with 130,000 kms on it (80k miles) where they had just replaced the engine for free under warranty and replaced it with a Jaguar SUV under lease that would have costed about $80k after the down payment, lease payments, and residual value were done.

And he wasn't done yet...he took the Jaguar in for service a year later and upgraded to a more expensive model that was about $30k more.

 

[Chuckanut]

I cringe when I read about people who won't even put enough in to get the company match. It's free money! In all my years of working, I never had a 401k company match, but I still maxed out my contributions. It kills me to think of how much more money I would have now if I had had a match. And these guys are not taking it.

Isn't that the truth. These folks don't know what they've got 'till its gone. And maybe not even then.

 

[Chuckanut]

I've told this story before. A friend built a house about 12-13 years ago and everything cost more than he thought. When it was done he had a 30-year mortgage at age 48 that was so high that he had to occasionally dip into savings just to meet monthly payments. He was losing sleep and as he approached retirement age (55 govt) he realized that he could not retire and still make the mortgage payments.

He sold the house for a bit of a profit and moved to an apartment. You think that he'd be happy to be debt free but that lasted 6 months. He then left work early taking both an age and time of service penalty and ended up with 80% of a 60% pension. But wait, there's more. He sold a paid off 8-year old Toyota Rav with 130,000 kms on it (80k miles) where they had just replaced the engine for free under warranty and replaced it with a Jaguar SUV under lease that would have costed about $80k after the down payment, lease payments, and residual value were done.

And he wasn't done yet...he took the Jaguar in for service a year later and upgraded to a more expensive model that was about $30k more.

Let me guess. He worked as a budget advisor to the country's leadership. Right?

 

[imnontrad]

My grandmother died while in her 50's and as soon as my mother reached that age, she "lived" as if she was going to die any minute. My mother passed away the month before she would have been 89.
However, she also lived frugally and invested. So she never had to worry about paying the bills.


If it makes you feel any better, I had a co-worker who, like myself, was in her mid 50's. However, she had been a big smoker in the past and looked a lot older than I did. One day at work, the subject of retirement came up and she remarked, "I guess I should start saving for retirement some day". I kept my mouth shut but inside I was screaming DUHHHHHHHH. I think the only thing that is going to save her from a miserable long retirement is that she will get cancer and die earlier - totally penniless.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Saving for retirement is like planting a tree-

The best time to do it is 20 years ago, the second best time is today.

 

[court6449]

Same ole story

I am now in my late 30s, but hold a pretty high position at MegaCorp and live and have always lived well below my means, just the same as many of you on this forum. What I find spectacular/confusing is the confusion from my peers, especially when I was younger about why? Why wouldn’t I buy more? I drive a paid for Nissan and they drive the Tesla’s and Mercedes with high payments. I live in a modest house and I literally just witnessed someone that was 4 years off of paying off their current mortgage in a smaller home, move to a giant house and take on another mortgage in their 50s. That, I cannot even comprehend because it is so stupid to me. I tend to think it all comes down to what’s important for a person; I find a lot of us on this forum think well ahead and tend to be pretty risk averse. Some folks simply constantly in the moment (or something like that)

 

[Nemo2]

Some folks simply constantly in the moment (or something like that)

"You can bring a horse to water, but have you ever smelled a wet horse?"

 

[HawkOwl]

Sometimes they listen (or, um, drink �&#56836.

One of my more gratifying moments was when someone I supervised thanked me, upon her retirement, for having advised her when she was hired to put 10% of her salary into a 401k and up it by whatever raise she got each year. She wasn’t inclined to do it, and honestly I didn’t know until this conversation that she had followed through. But she did, and she said that that decision allowed her to retire early. ��

 

[Markola]

I live in a modest house and I literally just witnessed someone that was 4 years off of paying off their current mortgage in a smaller home, move to a giant house and take on another mortgage in their 50s. That, I cannot even comprehend because it is so stupid to me.

Congrats on your habits. Your future self is going to be very grateful.

As for your coworker, I can’t know for sure, of course, but I’ve read that there is a certain type of individual who thinks that paying off debt is what motivates them to perform, so they are lost without the external pressure. Most here are more motivated to minimize the debt and to pay it off but, then, we’re unusual.

 

[Rianne]

I think it's subliminal instant gratification. A diabetic eyeing a hot fudge sundae covered in walnuts with mountains of whipped cream. Taking what we want regardless of the consequences. I look at travel magazines, happy faces dressed in Armani clothes driving a Beamer across a mountain range with the sunset in the distance. It really is manipulation to sell products or a lifestyle.

We used to drive around in Inverness, IL, a wealthy community. Never saw kids playing in the streets, lawns of perfection, each mansion outdoing the next with Christmas decorations. I thought how sad. Made me think of the movie "Stepford Wives" the original. It really depends on what your dream of happiness is. I like thinking of success like "The Millionaire Next Door" The unassuming millionaire living an average life knowing he could buy a yacht and thinks "Nahhhh"

 

[Nemo2]

We used to drive around in Inverness, IL, a wealthy community. Never saw kids playing in the streets, lawns of perfection, each mansion outdoing the next with Christmas decorations. I thought how sad.

Close to thirty years ago, older friends lived in 'the best' area of Victoria, BC.

I recall visiting them at Christmas, walking my Border Collie around the streets at night.....all the outside lights, decorations, interior lights on, not one person outside or visible inside, and eerily quiet.

Like seeing the old Yuletide department store displays long after they had closed for the day.

Found it quite depressing.

 

[Rianne]

all the outside lights, decorations, interior lights on, not one person outside or visible inside, and eerily quiet.

Found it quite depressing.

Exactly, I forgot that part about eerily quiet and no visible people. Creepy. That is NOT my definition of success.

 

[5Miler]

I am glad to say that I am seeing initial signs of success with both of my sons although later in life than I would have preferred. One is 43 and the older is 45 (two years shy of his military retirement date). Neither of them is aware of my financial status other than we travel often (non-Covid that is) and usually fly first class. So, they do know we get by OK without pensions or Social Security as we have a few investments.

They lived with their mother since they were toddlers as we divorced long ago and I was always traveling either in the Military or in my work afterwards. Their mother had to continue working until she could draw SS at 62 despite serious back issues as she needed the income to survive. Her current husband has been on SS for many years after losing his small business to bankruptcy in the great recession. They live in Arkansas and get by just fine in LCOL land.

I talk with both frequently and they often hit me up with questions about investing which I try to answer the best I can. They have set up automatic investments and are both adding money to after tax brokerage accounts. As boys will be boys, both dabbled in Tesla this year and so far so good I suppose. Too volatile for my blood these days. This Covid year was probably a real eye opener for them with layoffs other surprises all around. At this time, there is no need for them to know how much we have tucked under our mattress which will probably trickle over to them eventually. I'd prefer to see them succeed on their own first.

 

[RxMan]

I remember years ago at a previous job. My employer arranged for a benefits representative to be in the break area for hours to discuss the retirement benefits and answer questions.

I went over and said hi to the rep that was at our location that day. She was nice and when I walked up and said hi she responded “finally, someone is speaking to me.”

She explained that our employer was worried about the low 401k participation rate. She explained that they were trying to drum up interest in the program highlighting the match etc. She added that she wasn’t approached for hours at the table she was sitting in the break room.

I told her I was already participating and that I was well past the level where the company matched. She positively responded with a “good job” but added “I’m afraid you are in the minority- especially for your age.” I was in my early 30s at the time.

I do wonder about all these people that don’t take advantage of good savings opportunities like a 401k plan with a match. What will happen to them when they are 60 or 65 with little savings?

My parents taught me the importance of saving for the future starting at an early age. For that I am thankful.

I also had an unusually high interest in investing and the stock market starting at an age I’d venture to guess was younger than most people. I bought my first shares of a mutual fund in high school.

I think part of my desire to save was always wondering how long I would be able to do the work I did for a living. That personal uncertainty or stress about job security made me want to save some of each paycheck. And if you make it a habit early on it’s as if you don’t make the money because investing is automatic.

I don’t expect everyone to have the same saving mindset as I do. Some people like to live in the now and that lifestyle can be expensive. I plan to continue to save and honestly my biggest concern is shifting to a spending mentality after I do retire.

It will be hard to change old habits and learn that it’s OK to spend money. That to me is the best financial scenario for getting older- figuring out what to do with your money rather than complaining that you don’t have enough.

 

[Walt34]

I do wonder about all these people that don’t take advantage of good savings opportunities like a 401k plan with a match. What will happen to them when they are 60 or 65 with little savings?

They will become intimately familiar with the intricacies of government welfare benefits, what brands of cat food spread the best on sandwiches, bus schedules, and the health benefits of walking.

 

[RxMan]

They will become intimately familiar with the intricacies of government welfare benefits, what brands of cat food spread the best on sandwiches, bus schedules, and the health benefits of walking.

Not my idea of a good retirement.

 

[ceciledian]

I don't mind if some people want to work all their lives. That is their choice.

I do mind them telling me how 'lucky' I am to have retired at 62, not have car payments, etc.

I do think I’m lucky to have retired early with no debt. It’s a combination of many factors; good health, no kids, parents who instilled value of savings when I was at piggy bank age, a couple decent paying jobs obtained due to knowing someone who knew the hiring manager, marriage to a man with a good pension (my pension froze in 2000), and a plan to LBYM so we could retire early. Even without pension we could still be ER and live off our savings.

 

[armor99]

This year has taught me well that people have an unbelievable variety of beliefs about their lives and the future and many have no interest in facts at all. How they survive with their decision making amazes me. But what do I know?

Sadly, IMHO, we here in the US in a very real way are victims of our own success. You can really screw up your life quite badly at this point, (financially or otherwise), and it seems there is an almost never ending line of people, govt agencies, etc, that will try to help you.
It is strange that in all of the looting videos I have watched in the past year, not once did I see someone stealing food to feed themselves. (You cannot eat a big screen TV). How decadent has a society become when a large swath of people have such little responsibility, that they can afford to protest in the streets for months at a time. Think about it... truly starving impoverished people do not have time to protest. They are too busy working!!!

Because of all of this, many have taken the attitude that personal responsibility is for suckers. Why deny myself pleasure today (and save), when tomorrow someone else will always take care of me?

They want rights without responsibilities. They want freedom without duty. In short, they lust and hunger for the unearned, that they demand others provide them.

When will it stop? When will more people willingly choose to save for their futures and deny themselves pleasures today for the security of a better tomorrow? When people start saying NO!!!

No, we will not continue to financially bail you out of your poor life choices. No, you do not deserve to be paid more at a minimum wage job. No you are not owed anything by anyone else. No we will not pay off your useless college degree in art appreciation.

Only then will this stop. Time to grow up children, playtime is over....

 

[Gumby]

And this is why we can't have nice things. Thank you to all who did contribute constructively.