Big daddy State Farm is watching

[Lewis Clark]

Yep, pretty much!

Which is better - breaking a little harder for that stoplight? Or running the light but no breaking? Endless stuff like this!

Which is better: braking a little harder to avoid the car that just cut me off? Or using only gentle braking and colliding with the car that just cut me off?

Seems like a win-win for the insurance company - they raise my rates either way.

 

[db79]

The thing to understand is that the insurance companies have no idea what behavior or combination of behaviors is correlated with risk. This is data that they do not have. All of the current monitoring and rate adjustments is pure guesswork. What they are doing is building a database from which, eventually, they might be able to tease some correlations. In the mean time, expect arbitrary and clueless behavior as they conduct their experiments. They are running on gut feel and unvalidated heuristics.

Carriers have driving and loss data to prove out correlation. As driving data becomes more granular they can increasingly segment and nuance their rating factors.

Also, there are a lot of references in this thread to OBDII plug-in devices that carriers offer for potential discounts. Those will eventually become obsolete as the car manufacturer's themselves or via a 3rd party are reporting out driving behaviors.

 

[audreyh1]

Which is better: braking a little harder to avoid the car that just cut me off? Or using only gentle braking and colliding with the car that just cut me off?

Seems like a win-win for the insurance company - they raise my rates either way.

Yeah, that too!

 

[grasshopper]

I always thought that it was cool that my dealer sent my service info to Carfax, until now.

 

[Mark1]

I thought I remembered SF asking me once to verify my mileage, but only once as I remember (and I have no idea how I actually gave them the info??). Once I went into the SF website today, it looks like they wanted the mileage on my truck and the other 2 vehicles are still estimates. Based on the actual odometer readings of the three vehicles, all three annual mileages are probably bias high so no need for SF to update.

Ford F150 - 3,811 annual miles
Subaru Outback - 12,000 annual miles
Toyota Avalon - 8,000 annual miles

 

[EarlyandLate]

I recall reading an article which said that the insurance company driver monitoring programs were much more likely to help younger drivers and hurt older drivers. The reasoning was that young drivers start off in a higher risk category and demonstrating responsible driving would lower their rates. Older drivers with a good record are in a lower risk category. Any "inappropriate" driving activity would quickly raise your risk category. It's too long ago for me to remember the source of the article.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yep, pretty much!

Which is better - breaking a little harder for that stoplight? Or running the light but no breaking? Endless stuff like this!

Yea, and the snap from Progressive would register a quick stop if I slowed down for a turn and then hit the gas half way through the turn... and not hard on the gas... but heard the beep...


The other problem with 'quick stops' are the idiots that seem to jump out in front of you forcing you to slow down quickly... not your fault and you get a ding...


BTW, different insurance companies track you differently... mine had something to plug into the port... my sister had an app on her phone that recorded all travel... she had to go into the app and say which trips she was not driving or not her car (there were times I drove her car)... I know for sure that the device was removed from my car... not sure about the app...

 

[Winemaker]

I don't believe this can be done just using your cell phone. How can they tell you have been running red lights or driving on the wrong side of the road unless your phone's camera is on and pointing out the window?

Do use your cell phone for GPS navigation when driving in a unfamiliar location? It will tell you if you are in wrong lane and need to get over? It does record and displays your driving speed.

I have driven in CA in rush hour bumper to bumper on the freeways, and Google has instructed me on several occasions to exit, sit at traffic light, then re enter on the on ramp on other side, to save time. They know perhaps because others using Google maps ahead of me have been monitored, and the info gets relayed down the line.

Running red lights might be a stretch for a cell phone to monitor but I believe it's happening.

 

[audreyh1]

Yea, and the snap from Progressive would register a quick stop if I slowed down for a turn and then hit the gas half way through the turn... and not hard on the gas... but heard the beep...


The other problem with 'quick stops' are the idiots that seem to jump out in front of you forcing you to slow down quickly... not your fault and you get a ding...


BTW, different insurance companies track you differently... mine had something to plug into the port... my sister had an app on her phone that recorded all travel... she had to go into the app and say which trips she was not driving or not her car (there were times I drove her car)... I know for sure that the device was removed from my car... not sure about the app...

We were offered a discount if we did a phone monitoring app. No way José as they don’t know who is driving, if we are in someone else’s car, on our bicycles even. We had to have it running all the time - way too intrusive.

 

[folivier]

Slightly off topic but here in Louisiana there is a section of I-10 between Lafayette and Baton Rouge where it is elevated with no exits. Our state will implement a camera system that times each vehicle and if you cross that section in too short a time: ding ding, expect a ticket in the mail. No way to escape that one.

 

[braumeister]

Slightly off topic but here in Louisiana there is a section of I-10 between Lafayette and Baton Rouge where it is elevated with no exits. Our state will implement a camera system that times each vehicle and if you cross that section in too short a time: ding ding, expect a ticket in the mail. No way to escape that one.

Lots of ways to do that. I remember when the New Jersey Turnpike would check the entry and exit times on your toll ticket and if you had made the trip a certain percentage above the posted speed limit, you got a ticket when you exited. Happened to a friend of mine, so we all got in the habit of stopping at one of the rest areas for at least 10 minutes or so, whether we needed to or not.

 

[audreyh1]

Slightly off topic but here in Louisiana there is a section of I-10 between Lafayette and Baton Rouge where it is elevated with no exits. Our state will implement a camera system that times each vehicle and if you cross that section in too short a time: ding ding, expect a ticket in the mail. No way to escape that one.

The Atchafalaya swamp crossing I imagine.

No problem, there is a nice state highway welcome center along that stretch, ha ha.

 

[djsander]

We were offered a discount if we did a phone monitoring app. No way José as they don’t know who is driving, if we are in someone else’s car, on our bicycles even. We had to have it running all the time - way too intrusive.

We have USAA and the app lets you tell them you weren’t the driver. It does run in the background. I’m not worried it is any worst than any of the other apps loaded.

 

[TrvlBug]

Haven't read all the replies so someone may have posted this. We went on their low mileage plan years and years ago when I retired. Prior to renewal, they requested your odometer reading. Well, guess what...lots of people lied to get the lower rates. Now they use public records (Carfax?) and will extrapolate a correct mileage. I make sure we take the cars in for an oil change at the same time every year, they pull the mileage and the extrapolation is correct. Those times when I didn't pay attention and Carfax info was missing, they assume 'average' miles driven. I would take a picture of my odometer reading, supply to my agent and get a corrected bill a short time later. I made sure to calendar my oil changes so that I wouldn't have to go through this.

This reminds me I need to call my agent and ask her what to do now that my car is an EV and no need for oil changes!

 

[TrvlBug]

Forgot to mention that their estimated mileage is on page 2 (i think).

 

[audreyh1]

We have annual state inspections in TX that records your odometer. But I don’t know if that information is available to the public, and I’ve never heard of our insurance companies using it.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

We were offered a discount if we did a phone monitoring app. No way José as they don’t know who is driving, if we are in someone else’s car, on our bicycles even. We had to have it running all the time - way too intrusive.

At least with the State Farm app, you can just turn off Bluetooth whenever you want and nothing is recorded (the way the State Farm app works is they give you a small, separate Bluetooth device which goes on the windshield and your phone communicates over Bluetooth with this device). It must have an internal battery since there's no power hookup.

Of course, if one likes to place/receive hands-free phone calls in the car via Bluetooth that's a problem.

 

[audreyh1]

At least with the State Farm app, you can just turn off Bluetooth whenever you want and nothing is recorded (the way the State Farm app works is they give you a small, separate Bluetooth device which goes on the windshield and your phone communicates over Bluetooth with this device). It must have an internal battery since there's no power hookup.

Of course, if one likes to get/receive hands-free phone calls in the car via Bluetooth that's a problem.

Yeah, I think I would nix any such thing. I use Bluetooth to interact with my car.

The only monitoring I might consider would be the Tesla car itself providing information to Tesla Insurance and that would on a trial basis.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Yeah, I think I would nix any such thing. I use Bluetooth to interact with my car.

The only monitoring I might consider would be the Tesla car itself providing information to Tesla Insurance and that would on a trial basis.

Are you sure you can opt out of that?

https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/06/08/70845/tesla-knows-when-a-crash-is-your-fault-and-other-carmakers-soon-will-too/

"Everyone makes mistakes, and many people try to cover them up. But if you try to hide an error made behind the wheel of a car made by Tesla Motors, you are liable to be caught out. In fact, trying to hide what really happened in any kind of car accident could soon become just about impossible.

That’s the lesson of an incident over the weekend in which the owner of a Tesla Model X SUV crashed into a building and claimed it had suddenly accelerated on its own. But Tesla vehicles are constantly connected to their manufacturer via the Internet ...."


Caveat - I don't know much about Tesla cars, so maybe you can in fact opt out. You would know better than I.

 

[audreyh1]

Are you sure you can opt out of that?

https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/06/08/70845/tesla-knows-when-a-crash-is-your-fault-and-other-carmakers-soon-will-too/

"Everyone makes mistakes, and many people try to cover them up. But if you try to hide an error made behind the wheel of a car made by Tesla Motors, you are liable to be caught out. In fact, trying to hide what really happened in any kind of car accident could soon become just about impossible.

That’s the lesson of an incident over the weekend in which the owner of a Tesla Model X SUV crashed into a building and claimed it had suddenly accelerated on its own. But Tesla vehicles are constantly connected to their manufacturer via the Internet ...."


Caveat - I don't know much about Tesla cars, so maybe you can in fact opt out. You would know better than I.

What do you mean? I don’t have Tesla Insurance currently. I have auto insurance with another carrier.

I think you are perhaps conflating with another issue - how they determine who is at fault after a claim. That is different from carrying a Tesla Insurance policy which monitors your driving, assigns a score, and changes the insurance cost monthly based on that score.

 

[troutnut1]

I've been using the State Farm phone app (with Bluetooth receiver) for a couple of months, in all 4 cars.

Supposedly, it's saving us $225 every 6 months, but that includes the low mileage discount we were already getting. After 6 months at renewal, we'll be able to see if it's worth continuing, based on our 6 month driving scores. I'm consistently getting scores over 90%, well except when I take out the Miata ....

2 of my sons (25 and 23) are also using the app to save money on their own policies.

Caveat - I've been with State Farm for over 30 years and they've always treated me well, through accident claims, repairs, accident forgiveness, etc. Once or twice the low mileage discount was questioned but a quick call to the agent fixed that.

Wonder what it will cost you and State Farm if you are involved in an accident and opposing counsel gets their hands on everything, and all of your boo boos, according to the little trackers in your cars? It's the first thing I would subpoena. Even if you are a near perfect driver, their little car spy could make anyone look bad in court. We tried it, and threw Sate Farm out of our car after a few weeks. I got afraid to stop for yellow lights lest the little spy accuse me of "hard braking". I'm a good driver and have State Farm too, but it's not State Farm I'm worried about. Its the other drivers attorney if something happens.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Yeah, I think I would nix any such thing. I use Bluetooth to interact with my car.

The only monitoring I might consider would be the Tesla car itself providing information to Tesla Insurance and that would on a trial basis.

What do you mean? I don’t have Tesla Insurance currently. I have auto insurance with another carrier.

I think you are perhaps conflating with another issue - how they determine who is at fault after a claim. That is different from carrying a Tesla Insurance policy which monitors your driving, assigns a score, and changes the insurance cost monthly based on that score.

Maybe I misunderstood you when you said "The only monitoring I might consider".

My point is it sounds like Tesla cars are doing more monitoring than most cars, and you might not be able to opt out of that.

 

[audreyh1]

Maybe I misunderstood you when you said "The only monitoring I might consider".

My point is it sounds like Tesla cars are doing more monitoring than most cars, and you might not be able to opt out of that.

I was talking about insurance company monitoring my driving to determine insurance prices (which is the topic of this thread). I talked about Tesla Insurance which is a car insurance company.

Yes, the Tesla car itself monitors my driving and the car surroundings quite a bit to warn me about various things. But it’s not sending that information to my insurance company.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Wonder what it will cost you and State Farm if you are involved in an accident and opposing counsel gets their hands on everything, and all of your boo boos, according to the little trackers in your cars? It's the first thing I would subpoena. Even if you are a near perfect driver, their little car spy could make anyone look bad in court. We tried it, and threw Sate Farm out of our car after a few weeks. I got afraid to stop for yellow lights lest the little spy accuse me of "hard braking". I'm a good driver and have State Farm too, but it's not State Farm I'm worried about. Its the other drivers attorney if something happens.

I think that ship's already sailed given how most cars have black boxes. If they can subpoena the State Farm data, they could certainly subpoena for the black box data, which would have more detailed information.

 

[CardsFan]

Maybe I misunderstood you when you said "The only monitoring I might consider".

My point is it sounds like Tesla cars are doing more monitoring than most cars, and you might not be able to opt out of that.

Off topic, but related to Tesla monitoring:

I was at the dermatologist today, and in conversation the LPN working with me mentioned she was in FL for a sports tournament with her daughter. One of the other families drove down in their Tesla. On the drive back, she said the dad was put in "Tesla Jail". Apparently he tried to fool the auto-drive system so he could do other things, and got 2 warnings before "it" just shut down the system and made him manually drive all the way back to STL.