Full name disclosure rule?

[RetiredHappy]

If you read her other threads, she called everyone else an idiot or dumb. Best to ignore her.

 

[Gumby]

no i did after bought. but I see the sentence to include more forgiven. there is new law to pass. it is called Freedom to Farm Act. So farming is more encouraged to expand the forgiven more.

Your post made me curious, so I have done some reading. My current understanding of the Right to Farm Act (which appears to be duplicated in most other states) is that it was designed to protect farmers in the following situation: A hog farming operation has been in operation for the past 100 years in a rural area. As suburban sprawl expanded, subdivisions eventually sprang up next to the hog farm. Eventually, the new residents sued the hog farmer for public nuisance due to the odor and got the farm shut down. Essentially, the Right to Farm law said "the farmer was here first. He was obeying the law. You moved here later, knowing that there was a hog farm next door, and it is unfair for you now to be able to shut down the hog farm. So we will protect him."

That approach intuitively makes sense and seems fair. However, I don't believe that the law was ever intended to allow people to move into a city and declare that they are starting a farm and are therefore not required to abide by zoning regulations and city ordinances regarding the keeping of animals. However, I'll be the first to admit that I am no expert on this. I have just spent some time searching the internet and reading what I have found. I have no idea how the Right to Farm Act works in actual practice in Missouri. So you should consult your own local lawyer if you want to contest the Florissant municipal ordinance.

Here is an explanatory link: https://onerural.uky.edu/right-to-farm/MO

 

[retire to nature]

After FIRE, I have been thinking about this world system. I dont have any debt, but mainly people buy a nice house with mortgage then they cant speak up for their dignity or value etc.
If it cause short money for living or bad record, and then it cant be threatened to get a job etc.

Thats why people just let it go like people here saying to me.

So this kind abuse has been accepted and they kept doing.

Some people here have trouble to find purpose of life. But after FIRE, my purpose was to help the nature and farming is one way to do.

I have too much of money anyway. And my value is abuse shouldnt be accepted. IF nothing happens, they will keep doing.

When I was in high school, a friend said she pays back if someone treat her bad. I though she was a mean girl. But actually that is the law of action and reaction in physics. that is more normal.

But after FIRE, being nice is another way of for survival living reason since city life is so weblike connected. some people go to church for their social connection etc.
Or being standard and stay in majority make the success probability high etc.

In my own belief, living self sufficiency way is more stand up for self value because at least eating food etc can be solved.

But now losing job and no check then just need to starve. Thats why we have so many homeless problems.

 

[retire to nature]

Your post made me curious, so I have done some reading. My current understanding of the Freedom to Farm Act (which appears to be duplicated in most other states) is that it was designed to protect farmers in the following situation: A hog farming operation has been in operation for the past 100 years in a rural area. As suburban sprawl expanded, subdivisions eventually sprang up next to the hog farm. Eventually, the new residents sued the hog farmer for public nuisance due to the odor and got the farm shut down. Essentially, the new Freedom to Farm law said "the farmer was here first. He was obeying the law. You moved here later, knowing that there was a hog farm next door, and it is unfair for you now to be able to shut down the hog farm. So we will protect him."

That approach intuitively makes sense and seems fair. However, I don't believe that the law was ever intended to allow people to move into a city and declare that they are starting a farm and are therefore not required to abide by zoning regulations and city ordinances regarding the keeping of animals. However, I'll be the first to admit that I am no expert on this. I have just spent some time searching the internet and reading what I have found. I have no idea how the Freedom to Farm Act works in actual practice in Missouri. So you should consult your own local lawyer if you want to contest the Florissant municipal ordinance.

Freedom to farm act didnt passed in mo. I dont know other states. I dont know the story either. I read the full text of the bill. this is the summery part.
Current Bill Summary

SB 1318 - The act establishes the "Freedom to Farm Act" which provides that the right of farmers and ranchers, as defined in the act, to engage in farming and ranching practices for sale or personal consumption shall be free from government intervention and that practices occurring within the state shall not be infringed upon by the federal government under the regulation of interstate commerce.

Any government entity in this state that restricts farming or ranching practices shall be held civilly liable to the farmer or rancher for injunctive and declaratory relief.

Additionally, no government measure shall restrict the production, manufacturing, distribution, or sale of supplements intended for human application, absorption, or consumption, or be deemed to enforce a compulsory marketing quota, poundage quota, or similar policy restricting the production of farming or ranching.

No penalty as a result of a violation of any provision of law, order, ordinance, rule, regulation, policy, or similar measure regarding protection of the environment shall require the closure of a farming or ranching operation or restrict the consumption or sale of food products.

Except for licenses required by law before August 28, 2024, no licensure shall be required for an individual to operate or engage in farming or ranching.

The right to access and the ability to afford food products, as defined in this act, shall not be infringed upon by restrictions based on an individual's credit score, credit worthiness, credit standing, or credit capacity, or presentation of an identification card.

Any farmer or rancher who sells food products of his or her farming or ranching operation that are fit for human consumption shall not be held civilly liable for injury or death arising from a condition of such food products if the farmer or rancher provides the following warning label stating: "WARNING: CONSUME AT YOUR OWN RISK".

The use of any form of environmental manipulation, as that term is defined in the act, is prohibited in this state. This provision shall not prevent the use of pesticides on any farming or ranching operations. Any person using forms of environmental manipulation shall be held civilly liable for damages resulting from such use.

The act repeals the provision allowing the Governor to control the sale or distribution of food and feed during a state of emergency. The Governor shall not have the authority to prevent farming or ranching, including restrictions on water usage on farming and ranching operation, or otherwise restrict the availability of food products or control the sale or distribution of food products, including rights to access affordable food as described in the act, and availability of feed for the functioning of farming or ranching operations.

The act repeals certain provisions regarding deeming certain agricultural operations as nuisances and provides that no agricultural operation or any of its appurtenances shall be deemed to be a nuisance, except for those agricultural operations or any of its appurtenances used for production of swine or swine products as described in the act, that unreasonably expand in violation of zoning laws or ordinances.

The act is identical to SB 84 (2023).

 

[retire to nature]

If you read her other threads, she called everyone else an idiot or dumb. Best to ignore her.

I dont think everybody idiot. if you read another post to that way, you didnt catch the comprehensive context.

I may have a tendency to think people as wrong if they dont think and just do because the majority do. If there is no self inside themselves, I may not respect the person much.

We judge people with our own value. you can judge me in your value. I dont mind. But I can judge with mine too.

I thought the worker was an idiot as seeing an individual problem. But now I see it is the city system problem.

My city law was not written well, so they manipulate the law and ticketing without any law base?

This is totally wrong, that's the upset part.

I may lose, but with my money power, I will try to jerk at least.

 

[Route246]

California has transparentcalifornia. MO has https://mapyourtaxes.mo.gov/MAP/Employees/ . I don't know about other states.

Does your state have a public database with government employee's compensation?

 

[retire to nature]

California has transparentcalifornia. MO has https://mapyourtaxes.mo.gov/MAP/Employees/ . I don't know about other states.

Does your state have a public database with government employee's compensation?

thank you for the info. I live in mo and checked out the website. it doesnt show local government officers.

I know all names for my cases. I was not asking how to find.

I was just wondering due to SNS, new law or rule has been started.

Thru my research I learned about sunshine law.

Sunshine laws are regulations requiring public disclosure of government agency meetings and records. Sunshine laws require specific businesses and government agencies to maintain transparency and disclose their activities to the public.

So thats why I thought government officers name should be disclosed.

Mainly I am upsetting, because the city law was not written well, the authorities were doing whatever their mouth saying.

The first worker I called idiot, he told me need to clear out around my fence. I asked how much. he said well "how about 2 ft away?" well 7500sqft land blocking 2ft around meaning how much losing area to farm. and it was all my black berry bushes. and I couldnt find any law to need to clean up away to fence. But I found berry tree can be kept in written.

while in the phone conversation, I felt he was just making thing up, that's why I called him here idiot. If he was a good worker, let me check, and give some answer, but he was acting like king, whatever I say is the rule.

 

[Calico]

Three thoughts:

First: after a while, if every single city employee/co-worker/neighbor/ex-husband/in-law you deal with in life is perceived as "wrong, an idiot, abusive, stupid, or unfair" it's time to look in the mirror for the root of the problem.

Second: just because you can't have everything you want in life, and people (or the law) sometimes say "no" that does not equal abuse. It is, in fact, insulting to people who actually are abused by individuals or the courts to describe that as abuse.

Third: a multi-millionaire can afford to buy a hobby farm, dog or no dog.

 

[Sunset]

Freedom to farm act didnt passed in mo. I dont know other states. I dont know the story either. I read the full text of the bill. .........

...... I live in mo and checked out the website. .......
while in the phone conversation, I felt he was just making thing up, that's why I called him here idiot. If he was a good worker, let me check, and give some answer, but he was acting like king, whatever I say is the rule.

Now you say the Farm Act you have been quoting as your right to farm in a city, doesn't even exist in MO. (according to you).

If you are having problems with your farm in the city, it's probably because some neighbors don't like it and complain to the city. That is why the City comes around.

Then you get in a big argument thinking you know all the rules, well no wonder the City workers don't want to help you figure out what is allowed.

If my neighbor wants to keep some chickens , I don't care, but if one kept a rooster, I'd probably care as those things can make a lot of noise all day long, I was in TN and one down the street wouldn't shut up for a week when sun was out.

Others are correct, you can find any number of lawyers to help you out and spend lots of money endlessly and thinking the City will reimburse you the costs is wishful thinking. Better chance to win the PowerBall. Much of any costs you incur are at your own whim.

Proceedings in court are generally spoken publicly, that is standard, if you don't like what a Judge said about you in Court, don't end up in Court.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Frankly keeping Roosters is a Fowl Action

LOL, and I laugh at the joke. But the rooster's job is to protect the flock. Banning roosters is cruel IMO. I have (feral) chickens so I see the flock dynamics everyday. I get that many people who do not live in rural areas do not want to hear roosters crowing. So ban all chickens. But wait, chickens have lived with humans since prehistory and are endemic in many areas. I think I read somewhere that cities have a hard time banning chickens because of longstanding agricultural rights in this country. I know nothing about that but I think banning roosters without banning all chickens is idiotic, cruel, and ignorant.

 

[retire to nature]

Now you say the Farm Act you have been quoting as your right to farm in a city, doesn't even exist in MO. (according to you).

If you are having problems with your farm in the city, it's probably because some neighbors don't like it and complain to the city. That is why the City comes around.

Then you get in a big argument thinking you know all the rules, well no wonder the City workers don't want to help you figure out what is allowed.

If my neighbor wants to keep some chickens , I don't care, but if one kept a rooster, I'd probably care as those things can make a lot of noise all day long, I was in TN and one down the street wouldn't shut up for a week when sun was out.

Others are correct, you can find any number of lawyers to help you out and spend lots of money endlessly and thinking the City will reimburse you the costs is wishful thinking. Better chance to win the PowerBall. Much of any costs you incur are at your own whim.

Proceedings in court are generally spoken publicly, that is standard, if you don't like what a Judge said about you in Court, don't end up in Court.

I can see you didnt read all my replies.

I am talking about two laws. Right to Farm and Freedom to Farm.

RTF is been passed since 2014.

I Section 35. Right to farm. — That agriculture which provides food, energy, health benefits, and security is the foundation and stabilizing force of Missouri's economy. To protect this vital sector of Missouri's economy, the right of farmers and ranchers to engage in farming and ranching practices shall be forever guaranteed in this state, subject to duly authorized powers, if any, conferred by article VI of the Constitution of Missouri.

FTF last year tried to pass, didnt happen, another senator is asking for the same content for this year again. so it was SB84 in 2023, now it is SB 1318.

I mentioned FTF to tell you guys because there is effort to expand farming more.

There is Farmland act etc to support farming too.

I am not talking about a real big farm to have here either. But I have fruit tree, vegetable plants, chickening and bees. Many city residences do. It is farming activity according to MO rules.

My city says Residencial zone doesnt allow farming. yes correct. But county and other city says farming is ok in r-1 zone.
(5) Farming, including the cultivation and sale of any plant crops and domestic animals.

And my city allows as the (5) says. So they just didnt type in their law section.

And there is nowhere saying farming is prohibited in florissant. And I see in city law, RTF was all applied.


I dont care if they reimburse or not.

But I wont stop because I want to stand up for my right. I have right to farm by the law.

In my tickets, one can be real complaint because my chickens went to next house yard. She didnt like that. So I raised the fence up and problem solved. So in general, and I was told at the court, before trial date, the resolution is done, ticket will dismissed. But they didnt. And other tickets were I was just farming.

At the trial, I was talking RTF, but they didnt know even what that is, didnt give me a chance to explain. And denied my farm registration.

When I was getting the registration, it was easy. Now later I found out, because I am solo owner and no debt, and there is RTF, it issued easily.

My chickens here almost stayed here 1 year, and no more tickets after fence raised.

And my back side of back fence is city management. and they are neglect to keep it up and thats why predators staying there and made my chicken scared so made noise. I have asked about that area a few years ago, they didnt tell.

If I dont like the judgement, I can appeal, that's the law system. So I am utilizing it, what is wrong with that?

 

[Music Lover]

Freedom to farm act didnt passed in mo. I dont know other states. I dont know the story either. I read the full text of the bill. this is the summery part.
Current Bill Summary

SB 1318 - The act establishes the "Freedom to Farm Act" which provides that the right of farmers and ranchers, as defined in the act, to engage in farming and ranching practices for sale or personal consumption shall be free from government intervention and that practices occurring within the state shall not be infringed upon by the federal government under the regulation of interstate commerce.

You're not a farmer, you want own a rooster in the city.

But if you want to pretend to be a farmer, use some of your money to buy a place outside of the city where farmers and hobby farmers are welcome.

 

[retire to nature]

LOL, and I laugh at the joke. But the rooster's job is to protect the flock. Banning roosters is cruel IMO. I have (feral) chickens so I see the flock dynamics everyday. I get that many people who do not live in rural areas do not want to hear roosters crowing. So ban all chickens. But wait, chickens have lived with humans since prehistory and are endemic in many areas. I think I read somewhere that cities have a hard time banning chickens because of longstanding agricultural rights in this country. I know nothing about that but I think banning roosters without banning all chickens is idiotic, cruel, and ignorant.

Yes, agreed. Thank you for your opinion. I love watch my roosters too. And actually, my neighbors have said they love to hear my roosters too. I was worried first because no experience as same as other neighbors too. But I think we got all adapted and relaxed now. Even any neighbor dogs dont react to crowing at all.

 

[retire to nature]

You're not a farmer, you want own a rooster in the city.

But if you want to pretend to be a farmer, use some of your money to buy a place outside of the city where farmers and hobby farmers are welcome.

I think I can call myself farmer. I have more than a hundred blackberry trees. It started from one tree a few years ago. I dont sell anything. But farming for personal consumption can be farming and a farmer.

 

[retire to nature]

Anyway, I dont need to persuade you that I am right here either.
This thread helped me solve one questioning in my head though. I thought it is because low income city issue. Because I asked my dentist office to get itemized receipt because I see the receipt was just amount. I dont have problem to get it from other business in rich city.

But conversation went to they dont have those kind. hmm, really? how can that be possible? I asked you would file my insurance anyway, so I wanted to see what dr did. Because dr gave anesthesia too much I couldnt feel anything. I was drooling too long time. Went to for scaling and he said deep root cleaning. so wanted to just check.

But I guess it is not my city problem because you guys are so ban everything.

 

[Sunset]

I think I can call myself farmer. I have more than a hundred blackberry trees. It started from one tree a few years ago. I dont sell anything. But farming for personal consumption can be farming and a farmer.

Personal consumption can also be called gardening, and gardener.

How much land do you have ?

If it's less than 20 acres, I'd call it gardening.

 

[Sunset]

......

I am talking about two laws. Right to Farm and Freedom to Farm.

....
If I dont like the judgement, I can appeal, that's the law system. So I am utilizing it, what is wrong with that?

Thanks for clearing up that the 2 Farm laws/regulation discussed are different things !

It's true that you can appeal a judgement if you don't like it, or even if you like it. But why are you appealing ?
What is wrong is:
If the cost of the judgement is small, it's dumb to appeal as the cost of the appeal will be more than the cost of the judgment.
Example: I once got a speeding ticket, cost $120 , I could have gone to court and fought it myself for a cost of ~$500 or hired a lawyer at a cost of $2,000. I paid it as it was the best choice, and drove slower through that speed trap after that !

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

I think I can call myself farmer. I have more than a hundred blackberry trees. It started from one tree a few years ago. I dont sell anything. But farming for personal consumption can be farming and a farmer.

That's a lot of blackberries. What do you do with your excess produce and eggs? As you said you're not interested in selling it but do you give it away to your neighbors or anyone that can use it? If you want to be a good citizen that might be a way to get the community on your side especially if in a low income community. Not suggesting you let people wander onto your property but maybe once a week [ut a table out by the gate or something

 

[retire to nature]

That's a lot of blackberries. What do you do with your excess produce and eggs? As you said you're not interested in selling it but do you give it away to your neighbors or anyone that can use it? If you want to be a good citizen that might be a way to get the community on your side especially if in a low income community. Not suggesting you let people wander onto your property but maybe once a week [ut a table out by the gate or something

I have three hens now, but somehow one hen I adopted when it was adult hen never make egg. And I learned chicken dont lay egg in winter as well as it is not for sure they make egg every day. So if I am lucky, I get two eggs. It covers my and my dog consumption. I wish I can get more hens and share with neighbors but the city doesnt allow.

I was sharing with my friends or tree guy who gave me woodchip for free etc. I didnt share with my neighbors, but I didnt mind all the birds around here eat them. People here imagine my yard so terrible, but I am helping the habitat way, it is much better than a park hearing all bird singing.

I made blackberry wine, jam, or put it in kimchi, or just smoothie etc. And it is very short term in produce period even though people see blackberry long season, in real, it is about one or two months.

But mainly last years, every spring I had issue, fight at park and injured, and pet loss. so I couldnt keep up with gardening. But i kept adding woodchip to my soil, so soil condition is so good. So I was gonna do big year this year. But the issue seized me doing it because when my body and mind not matched well, I cant work much.

I am highly sensitive person. So I usually hum all the time and all people are asking why my feeling and mood is so good. Well, I see now, I stand up for myself to match the mindset.

Without it, my whole body ache and cant be productive.

 

[retire to nature]

Personal consumption can also be called gardening, and gardener.

How much land do you have ?

If it's less than 20 acres, I'd call it gardening.

This is why people here are confused. my land is only 0.17 acre. And it is called urban farming. USDA support urban farming and issue a farm even 0.01acre. And USDA want to make grants to make people to farm.

So, in legal term, it is not required that many acres.

1197-1206.In American law. “Farm” denotes a tract of land devoted in part, at least, to cultivation,for agricultural purposes, without reference to its extent, or to the tenure by which it is held.

I and USDA believe commercial farming went to way bad way to be cruelty for animals and ruining soils etc. Both see urban farming is a way of solution.

 

[retire to nature]

Thanks for clearing up that the 2 Farm laws/regulation discussed are different things !

It's true that you can appeal a judgement if you don't like it, or even if you like it. But why are you appealing ?
What is wrong is:
If the cost of the judgement is small, it's dumb to appeal as the cost of the appeal will be more than the cost of the judgment.
Example: I once got a speeding ticket, cost $120 , I could have gone to court and fought it myself for a cost of ~$500 or hired a lawyer at a cost of $2,000. I paid it as it was the best choice, and drove slower through that speed trap after that !

I know this is how people can see. my ticket is $1600 now, and if I appeal and lose the case, it can be much more.

I am very stingy too so save any money is possible too. Yes I used to be money centered perspective as well before. But now I am very myself and feeling centered perspective. It was hard to change the habit of thinking. But now I am pretty comfortable to think quick to put myself first with comfortable feeling.

This is my 4th year of semi-fire now. so during that time, I learned about myself more what I like, and where I stand for. And the whole life pre FIRE I used to think money is the top. But now maybe because self sufficiency life pursue, I know i can survive. And I have too much money anyway. I know the zero to die book. And I dont have anyone to leave my asset either.
Since the judgement and because I believe it is wrong, my body get pains. I know that's me. Some people are born that way for justice part strongly.

I save $9000 to come to USA and spent $8000 for tuition for the 3 semester of ESL classes. after first month of homestay, I ran out of money because SSN didnt come fast enough. My mom sent me $500. That was my seed money for my life. I grew it up well to 4mil.

I believe farming can be very productive and more people have to do that and be more self sufficiency way.

And I worked in many field, and one is freight company. I know the produce need some chemical to keep it long to go market etc.

And I want to have control my food free of chemical too. people think organic is good, farmer's market is good etc. But as long as it is trade, there is distance to cover then, there is chemical.

Even if it is not sprayed by chemical, modern farming is push nitrogen so much to keep fresh longer. But too much nitrogen can cause cancer. So that's why after using fertilizer, cancer rate went up too.

endless...

 

[pacergal]

You have over 100 blackberry trees/bushes on less than 1/4 acre? That's a lot, do you cut them back from the fence so they are not protruding into neighbors yards? What else to you plant for food on your property.

On of our neighbors planted raspberry bushes and we worked for years to cut them back from our property before she finally took them out--they were overtaking her yard!

 

[CRLLS]

I am not an expert on farming although I had several relatives that did own and operate traditional farms. As I read several laws referenced earlier in this thread, it appears that to be classified as a farm, there must be a financial exchange for the goods produced. I don't think that planting/harvesting or keeping animals for one's own consumption, sharing with neighbors, or donating excess goods would qualify as farming. It would imply to me at least, listing farming on one's 1040 form occupation, paying income taxes and SS taxes on money earned and taking tax deductions on items for operation.

There is a big difference between gardening and farming. Farming is a business not a hobby.

 

[retire to nature]

I am not an expert on farming although I had several relatives that did own and operate traditional farms. As I read several laws referenced earlier in this thread, it appears that to be classified as a farm, there must be a financial exchange for the goods produced. I don't think that planting/harvesting or keeping animals for one's own consumption, sharing with neighbors, or donating excess goods would qualify as farming. It would imply to me at least, listing farming on one's 1040 form occupation, paying income taxes and SS taxes on money earned and taking tax deductions on items for operation.

There is a big difference between gardening and farming. Farming is a business not a hobby.

I know what you talk about. economical term of a farm. it needs when it can use some benefit of economical reason tax saving etc. But not required to be a farm.

 

[retire to nature]

You have over 100 blackberry trees/bushes on less than 1/4 acre? That's a lot, do you cut them back from the fence so they are not protruding into neighbors yards? What else to you plant for food on your property.

On of our neighbors planted raspberry bushes and we worked for years to cut them back from our property before she finally took them out--they were overtaking her yard!

Now I raised the fence, so it wont go much as before and I used bamboo post to stand up way. And both side neighbors not interesting to grow, so they just push the mower and no issues.