Golf Talk Tuesdays - 2021

[aaronc879]

interesting that ESPN Golf isn't showing the scores.

I saw that too. They must have some kind of deal with the PGA.

 

[ivinsfan]

Not to get political but it’s well known it’s a Saudi government exercise in “sportswashing” using several sports.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...at-least-15bn-on-sportswashing-report-reveals

We got asked not to do this and saying not to get political doesn't fix it.


I am just interested in the golf aspect. There have been quite a few attempts to start pro football leagues and they have all fallen flat. It's hard to beat the statue quo in any professional sport.


Although some golfers do have tons of money they also have tons of expenses and IMO the PGA acting like it owns the players and can tell them when and where to play leaves it ripe to a downturn.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

I imagine they are still experimenting. Trying to get away from only showing the first page of the leader board. They play round robin as well with all players finishing within 30 minutes of each other to level playing conditions, That makes it hard to know how far into a round each player is, some tweaking with be forthcoming I'm sure.

Its a shotgun start. They are all the same progress through the round, just on different holes.

 

[ivinsfan]

Its a shotgun start. They are all the same progress through the round, just on different holes.

I know but my brain doesn't process that properly...it's an old brain. And all holes are not created equal that's more what I was referring to. On certain classic golf courses say like Amen corner at the Masters getting through certain holes with a good score is a big deal.



It will sink in eventually.

 

[f35phixer]

View attachment 42625

liv golf scoreboard?

who are these people?

someone else thought scoreboard was just a little bit wrong...


Sports TV Ratings
@SportsTVRatings
I ejected from LIV quickly. I chalk it up to being old* but found their leaderboard approach an atrocious eyesore.

 

[pb4uski]

... According to multiple reports during the second round of the LIV Golf Invitational London event at Centurion Club today, Patrick Reed, Rickie Fowler, Matt Wolff, Pat Perez, Bubba Watson and Jason Kokrak are on the cusp of adding their names to the growing list. ...

Only 2 of the 6 (Reed and Kokrak) have been able to qualify for the U.S. Open... the other 4 failed to qualify, in Wolff's case rather spectacularly after walking off the course in his qualifying round after hitting his tee shot on the 9th hole into the water.

Looks like LIV is losing on both quantity and quality.

 

[ivinsfan]

Only 2 of the 6 (Reed and Kokrak) have been able to qualify for the U.S. Open... the other 4 failed to qualify, in Wolff's case rather spectacularly after walking off the course in his qualifying round after hitting his tee shot on the 9th hole into the water.

Looks like LIV is losing on both quantity and quality.

Matt Wolff is a world class talent who has been very open about his mental struggles with the PGA play. LIV might be the best thing that ever happened to him. The PGA is chock full of 20 something perfect golf bots. These 6 golfers have outgoing personalities and on course presence. And they can play golf. So I don't really agree with your last sentence. IMO LIV golf knows exactly what they are doing.

I would not be surprised to see Tony Finau join this league. My bro who is a golf company rep had dealings with Tony around 10 years ago. Says he is the nicest guy on earth. Also says Tony doesn't have the killer instinct to make it to the elite of the elite. He's too happy and well adjusted.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ I guess that I had it all wrong... I thought the idea was to assemble the best golfers on the planet and have them compete mano-a-mano against each other... eat what you kill.

I didn't know that an "outgoing personality" or "nice guy" was important (of course, that would seem to exclude Reed and Watson who have reputations as jerks and from the PGAs perspective are probably in the good riddance category).

The thing that we agree on is that those LIV guys can play golf... its just that they are not the best of the best.

Perhaps we should have a golf superbowl of the top 10 LIV pros and the top 10 PGA pros... 4 rounds and take the total of the best 5 LIV pros and the best 5 PGA pros... lowest score wins. I don't think it would be close at all.

 

[ivinsfan]

P if you think about it going head to head with the PGA is pretty daunting. But if you think of it as an alternative to the PGA you can see where LIV might be going. And you know every hero needs a villain if you want some drama. PR might be the most competitive person on earth with Bryson a close second. Tiger would be the alpha if still playing.

I guess we'll see what happens! But I'm pretty certain he'll will freeze over before PGA agrees to interact with LIV

 

[frayne]

I predict the LIV tour will start with a bang and finish with a whimper. Think Gregg Norman, back nine, Sunday at the Masters. There is already more than enough golf on TV and even the crowds at the bigger events seem sparse on Thursdays and Fridays. With the PGA, Seniors, Ladies, European, Korn Ferry, the general public is saturated with all the golf anyone could want. I just don't see LIV actually competing with the PGA in any real sense. Yes, they have some marquee players but they are mostly on the downward trajectory of their respective careers and don't compete well with the PGA young turks. Time will tell. All that said you can't blame the players for taking the money to secure FIRE dreams.

 

[Midpack]

I predict the LIV tour will start with a bang and finish with a whimper. Think Gregg Norman, back nine, Sunday at the Masters. There is already more than enough golf on TV and even the crowds at the bigger events seem sparse on Thursdays and Fridays. With the PGA, Seniors, Ladies, European, Korn Ferry, the general public is saturated with all the golf anyone could want. I just don't see LIV actually competing with the PGA in any real sense. Yes, they have some marquee players but they are mostly on the downward trajectory of their respective careers and don't compete well with the PGA young turks. Time will tell. All that said you can't blame the players for taking the money to secure FIRE dreams.

Sorry, not sure I agree with that. What kind of example are they setting for their family and friends “securing their dreams” with sportswashing money from the bonesaw regime? I’m trying to imagine explaining that choice to my wife and kids…but it seems morals have become outdated to lots of people nowadays.

But we’ve beat both sides of this debate to death already. You either think Khashoggi, Yemen, political executions, etc. makes a distinction or you don't.

 

[frayne]

One can rationalize the moral aspect of the LIV tour eight ways from Sunday. That said, twice the pay for half the work makes perfect sense in most people's way of thinking.

Good read about the subject from Steve Stricker's perspective.https://golf.com/news/steve-stricke...mRgrz42Lp-Np2_P43n69F30sY9t5mSYq89Uk03k6BOqRo

 

[VanWinkle]

I followed Tiger 4 years ago in St Louis and there was a sea of people following with me. There will be another "Tiger" but when is the question. The golfers are seeing major league players getting 240 million dollar contracts and feel the PGA is hoarding some of their money. They may be correct!! Show me the money!!!

 

[zinger1457]

These 6 golfers have outgoing personalities and on course presence. And they can play golf. So I don't really agree with your last sentence. IMO LIV golf knows exactly what they are doing.

Most if not all of these six golfers listed, and just about everyone else who is playing for LIV golf, are on a downward spiral as far as their talent and previous rankings in the golf world, that is the main reason they are heading to a golf league that guarantees them money. The world rankings of Flowler (145) and Perez (168) means that they are both in a position to lose their PGA Tour card based on performance. Bubba Watson was ranked as high as 2nd in the world at one time, he is now 71.

 

[aaronc879]

I followed Tiger 4 years ago in St Louis and there was a sea of people following with me. There will be another "Tiger" but when is the question. The golfers are seeing major league players getting 240 million dollar contracts and feel the PGA is hoarding some of their money. They may be correct!! Show me the money!!!

MLB generates around $10B a year in revenue while the PGA brings in about 1/10 of that. MLB players play in around 160 games a year while most PGA players play only 20-30 tournaments per year.

 

[aaronc879]

Most if not all of these six golfers listed, and just about everyone else who is playing for LIV golf, are on a downward spiral as far as their talent and previous rankings in the golf world, that is the main reason they are heading to a golf league that guarantees them money. The world rankings of Flowler (145) and Perez (168) means that they are both in a position to lose their PGA Tour card based on performance. Bubba Watson was ranked as high as 2nd in the world at one time, he is now 71.

MLB players get 50% of revenue thru salary caps. PGA players get 55% of revenue. MLB brings in almost 10X the revenue so no reason to expect PGA players to make as much as MLB players.

 

[ivinsfan]

Sorry, not sure I agree with that. What kind of example are they setting for their family and friends “securing their dreams” with sportswashing money from the bonesaw regime? I’m trying to imagine explaining that choice to my wife and kids…but it seems morals have become outdated to lots of people nowadays.

But we’ve beat both sides of this debate to death already. You either think Khashoggi, Yemen, political executions, etc. makes a distinction or you don't.

Did you have an actual golf comment anywhere, if
so I missed it. We've been told to leave politics out of this.

 

[ivinsfan]

MLB players get 50% of revenue thru salary caps. PGA players get 55% of revenue. MLB brings in almost 10X the revenue so no reason to expect PGA players to make as much as MLB players.

Interesting I don't see PGA having the underlying cost that MLB has. They use other people's golf courses ,volunteers at venues. Except for HI and a pension plan players pay all their own expenses. Caddies, coaches, travel, all come directly from the players pockets. With not granting exemptions for LIV they appear to want to play both sides of the street

 

[ivinsfan]

Anyone have a pick for the US open next week?be interesting to see if another young buck wins. It's starting to look as though multiple majors winners will be fewer and fewer.

 

[Midpack]

Did you have an actual golf comment anywhere, if
so I missed it. We've been told to leave politics out of this.

Yes, I've offered my views re: LIV golf several times - so you're deliberately "missing it." While you're clearly willing to overlook the sources of LIV funding, we don't all have to. Quit crying politics to discount others views. We've all chosen sides already anyway...now it just plays out over the next few months or years.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, I've offered my views re: LIV golf several times - so you're deliberately "missing it." While you're clearly willing to overlook the sources of LIV funding, we don't all have to. Quit crying politics to discount others views. We've all chosen sides already anyway...now it just plays out over the next few months or years.

There's a mod note about leaving politics out of here,which I referred too when replying to one of your post. I'm not missing anything . Yes I took the mods side sorry if you have a problem with that.

 

[pb4uski]

I would think that Scheffler would be at the top of the list just because he is playing so well, Rahm will likely be in the mix as well as JT and Colin Morikawa (I would think that Brookline sets up well of Morikawa). I'd like to see Spieth be in the hunt too and he is streaky enough that he might be a factor.

 

[Midpack]

There's a mod note about leaving politics out of here,which I referred too when replying to one of your post. I'm not missing anything . Yes I took the mods side sorry if you have a problem with that.

And you’re not a Mod, so quit trying. Some like the upstart aspect of LIV, some don't - it's not complicated. I’m done with this topic…

 

[ivinsfan]

I would think that Scheffler would be at the top of the list just because he is playing so well, Rahm will likely be in the mix as well as JT and Colin Morikawa (I would think that Brookline sets up well of Morikawa). I'd like to see Spieth be in the hunt too and he is streaky enough that he might be a factor.

A few LIV golfers will be playing too,since the open isn't a PGA event. Curious to see how that will go.

 

[Midpack]

What is your temperature/humidity limit to walk 18 holes?

I like to walk as often as possible when I play golf. Next week the highs are in the 97-98F range, and I'm not sure I should even try to walk in that - I don't want to drop out after 9 so I don't want to just try it and see what happens. We are teeing off 8ish so we'll miss some/most of the peak heat...