Acid Reflux and Baking Soda

[Winemaker]

Paleo man didn't drink distilled water that has a 7.0 pH, he drank rainwater from a stream/lake. It is acidic because it absorbed nitrogen and carbon dioxide to name a few, and formed nitric and carbonic acid.

Have you had the same results if you took 3/8 oz. baking soda in water in morning instead of neutralizing the acid in your 3 beverages? Also, the time of the day one takes his/her "medicine" affects results also. By taking your "medicine" in evening when your stomach is empty, it reduces the acid better than if you took your "medicine" during the day when your stomach is full.

 

[Focus]

We have a platform bed - no springs, no legs, just a mattress on a wood frame. Haven't figured out how to elevate it.

I use two fluffy pillows. It took some getting used to, since my previous preference was to use a single, very flat pillow.

 

[OmegaDog]

Long time LPR sufferer. I had a growth on my vocal cords and took Nexium for years. My ENT would check the growth every 6 to 12 months and it shrank but would not go away. She wouldn't cut it out because it would simply grow back in the acid environment. I was worried about this developing into Barrett's esophagus, which can be a precursor for esophageal cancer. I finally took drastic measures with my diet. NO soft drinks, no caffeine, no OJ, no tomato products, no fatty meats, etc. I checked the pH level of everything I ate and did not eat anything acidic. My throat improved so much, I weaned myself off the Nexium and my growth disappeared.



LPR is nothing to mess with. Throat cancer rates have risen at an alarming rate.



I recommend the book "Dropping Acid" by Dr. Jamie Koufman.

 

[TromboneAl]

I evaluated the relative strength of baking soda and TUMS ("Extra strength 750"), and I estimate that one TUMS table is about the same as 1/8 tsp of baking soda.

In this test, the BS brought the water to a pH of 9 while the TUMS brought the same amount of water to pH 8. However, the TUMS hadn't completely dissolved yet.

 

[Kroeran]

When it comes to using H2 blockers for GERD/LPR, I'm concerned about the recently posited link between regular antihistamine use over time, and memory loss/dementia:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321632.php

Occasional use of H2 blockers, or other antihistamines, is probably OK.

We have a platform bed - no springs, no legs, just a mattress on a wood frame. Haven't figured out how to elevate it.

Cut a 2*4 into blocks and raise it at least 3 blocks between frame and floor?

Or bricks

 

[ERD50]

I evaluated the relative strength of baking soda and TUMS ("Extra strength 750"), and I estimate that one TUMS table is about the same as 1/8 tsp of baking soda.

In this test, the BS brought the water to a pH of 9 while the TUMS brought the same amount of water to pH 8. However, the TUMS hadn't completely dissolved yet.

Water has near zero buffering power. I would not try to draw any conclusions from this.

While I'm not sure your other approach has merit, it is far more scientific, IMO. That is, to measure that amount of Baking soda required to neutralize a serving sized drink.

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

When I poured out the water, I found that much of the TUMS had not dissolved (it was at the bottom of the dish). Maybe it dissolves better in the acidic environment of the stomach.

Based on the label, one TUMS has 750 mg of calcium carbonate, which is about how much 1/8 tsp of sodium bicarbonate weighs. I don't know if that suggests they are equivalent.

Out of my depth, here.

 

[ERD50]

...

Out of my depth, here.

Me too (can I still use that phrase?). I'm basing this on what I know from home brewing beer, where the pH of the mash can be important ( 'mash' = malted grains soaking in ~ 150F water to allow enzymes to convert starch to sugar).

The people in the know on the brewing forums (actual chemistry backgrounds) keep pointing out that the pH of the water is often pretty irrelevant. It's the pH and buffering power of the various ingredients that matters.

I think the analogy is heat versus temperature. A drop of boiling water into a gallon of room temp water has little effect, A quart of relatively cooler 100F water will have a larger effect.

There mist be some real chemists on this forum that could chime in?

-ERD50

 

[Winemaker]

I use sparingly bicarbonate or calcium carbonate to reduce the acidity in wine.

Potassium carbonate------3.8 grams/gallon reduces acid by 0.1%
Potassium bicarbonate----3.4 grams/gallon reduces acid by 0.1%
Calcium carbonate--------2.5 grams/gallon reduces acid by 0.1%

Remember that the above three will react with the most reactive acid and will affect flavor. I remove a small portion of my sample, treat it, then return it with the total.
In wine, there are three acids, tartaric, malic, and citric. If I use the above in total, it will neutralize all the tartaric first, malic, then citric.

Your stomach is making hydrochloric acid.

 

[Amethyst]

Stomach acid belongs in the stomach, and has a purpose.

The problem with reflux is not that the stomach is too acid, or the food either. The problem is that the acid (and other chemicals) won't stay in the stomach where it belongs! Now, what are we going to do about that? Maybe another thread.

 

[spncity]

I have had what could be LPR for years. I was able to reduce it from causing constant throat clearing to very light by slamming down a tablespoon or so of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar with 'The Mother' once a day. I don't mix it with anything, just hold it in my mouth until I can fill the glass with water and wash it down. It sounds dumb but worked for me. Placebo? Who knows. People have asked me why the acidic vinegar doesn't exacerbate the problem. But a splash of vinegar is meaningless in a sea of corrosive stomach acid.

Thanks for the tip!

For me, it seems like too many evening carbs will cause some bedtime indigestion or heartburn. After reading your post, I have tried a tablespoon or two of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar with 'The Mother' in a small amount of water.

It works!

The first taste nearly ended the experiment! My current method is to drink through a straw while holding my nose and try to chase it with something like a taste of honey.

I've heard that lemon in water makes your system less acidic (also counter-intuitive.) Maybe this is the same.

 

[TromboneAl]

Stomach acid belongs in the stomach, and has a purpose.

The problem with reflux is not that the stomach is too acid, or the food either. The problem is that the acid (and other chemicals) won't stay in the stomach where it belongs! Now, what are we going to do about that? Maybe another thread.

I agree, and here's my logic:

1. Without surgery, I don't have a way of keeping the stomach contents in the stomach (already don't smoke, aren't overweight, stay upright after meals, tried raising the head of the bed, etc.), so I can only treat the symptom, not the root cause.
   
2. The stomach acid indeed has a purpose, and that's why efforts to reduce stomach acidity backfire: The stomach will detect the lowered acidity and put out more acid.
   
3. It seems that drinking beverages that have higher acidity causes me problems. Neutral drinks do not.
   
4. If I could just turn an acidic beverage into a neutral drink, it would not cause me problems.
   
5. If I add just enough base to neutralize a beverage, I am essentially turning it into a neutral drink, and I can drink it without it causing me problems.

A problem with that reasoning is that the stomach is going to be acidic no matter what I eat or drink, and I could still get some reflux.

Actually, there is one thing I can do to keep the stomach contents in the stomach: eat smaller meals. By drinking less liquid with a meal, that seems to help. But I've had problems even with very small meals.

 

[TromboneAl]

When there's a lot of variability, it's easy to be fooled by a placebo effect. That's what I think is happening with the vinegar.

It's vinegar's acidic nature that seems to have captured the attention of natural remedy enthusiasts, who tout it as a germ-killing tonic for everything in the digestive tract from sore throats and infectious diarrhea to small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, aka SIBO. The problem with these claims? There is no scientific evidence whatsoever to support them. I combed the research literature to find a single study that even tested any of these claims – and, when I found none, I sent a graduate student intern on the same mission. We both came up empty.

...

But in fact, just the opposite is true. While there hasn't been a single scientific study testing whether too-low stomach acid levels could actually cause reflux, very well-designed research studies confirm that people with more acidic stomach environments experience more acid reflux into their esophaguses.​

https://health.usnews.com/health-ne...cure-your-acid-reflux-or-other-digestive-woes

 

[Sunset]

....

We have a platform bed - no springs, no legs, just a mattress on a wood frame. Haven't figured out how to elevate it.

We have a bed with legs. But some platform beds have extremely short legs.

You could try, a short 4x4 piece at the head of the bed, and at the middle, put a short 2x4 piece, and nothing at the foot.
The middle piece is to support the bed 1/2 way along the length, which may be needed if middle "legs" are already on the bed.

Instead of a 4x4 , you could always screw/nail together 2 pieces of 2x4, so you only need to buy 1 long 2x4

 

[Kroeran]

Get your beds raised the higher the better, even if you
don’t yet have reflux.

Ran across this excellent survey of LPR this aft

https://chrisaram.net/the-lpr-cure-everything-ive-learned/

 

[Al in Ohio]

You could try some alkaline foods instead like a banana or banana smoothie with some coconut milk. We also drink peppermint tea for over acid stomachs.


I also sometimes buy a coffee substitute beverage called Pero to drink instead of coffee later in the day.

Peppermint or spearmint is worse for acid reflux than coffee or chocolate. Peppermint can send a reflux person to the point of refluxing wildly all night.

 

[Bir48die]

Get your beds raised the higher the better, even if you
don’t yet have reflux.

Ran across this excellent survey of LPR this aft

https://chrisaram.net/the-lpr-cure-everything-ive-learned/

I'm not opposed to buying a split bed and actually saw one at Costco for $2.5k. My goal is to try and identify when I'm at risk. Last night I ate a pretty neutral dinner but could tell things were happening. Then probably a bad decision was a bowl of chocolate ice cream around 8:00 (nobody's perfect!). So, took one Tums and got out the 4" wedge pillow and Bob's Your Uncle. Interesting thing though. In the middle of the night I either dreamed this or it happened: I was on my right side and it felt like "here it comes" and then just stopped mid way. Not sure what is true but all I know is that it didn't happen.

I just got off three weeks of eating and drinking a lot and for some reason when I'm in a different part of the world I don't get these issues. That to me is baffling. However, I have learned to steer away from crazy spiced food during those trips.

 

[TromboneAl]

... for some reason when I'm in a different part of the world I don't get these issues. That to me is baffling.

Wow, interesting that you mention that. When we were visiting our daughter in Denver for a few weeks, the LPR wasn't as bad. I've been wondering what was different there. Altitude, humidity, meals, no recliner?

 

[TromboneAl]

One of the interesting things you learn when you have litmus paper:

The liquid in a jar of Kalamata olives: pH 3
The liquid in a can of normal black olives solution: pH 8

 

[ERD50]

One of the interesting things you learn when you have litmus paper:

The liquid in a jar of Kalamata olives: pH 3
The liquid in a can of normal black olives solution: pH 8

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...d/the-plate/2016/07/olives--the-bitter-truth/

Black olives, though labeled as “ripe” on supermarket cans, actually aren’t: these, a California invention, are green olives that have been cured in an alkaline solution, and then treated with oxygen and an iron compound (ferrous gluconate) that turns their skins a shiny patent-leather black.

I knew black olives were treated somehow to turn them black, was thinking it was alkaline, but wasn't sure. Green olives, being 'pickled' would be salt and some kind of acid (which could include lactic acid from fermentation from Lactobacillus).

BTW, that entire article is pretty interesting.

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

UPDATE

My Nobel-prize-worthy trick of neutralizing drinks doesn't seem to work that well.

I had another idea: I shouldn't take baking soda during/after a meal, because I'm pretty upright after meals. I should take it just before going to bed—that's when the stomach contents go where they shouldn't.

Well, that idea didn't work especially well either.

Perhaps any use of sodium bicarbonate or calcium carbonate leads to some rebound acidity in the stomach.

The only thing that seems to work is either abstaining from all the good things (coffee, beer, soda), or decreasing the volume of the drink. That is, if I only have three fluid ounces of coffee with breakfast, that seems to help. Also, I suspect that even the neutral Peet's coffee is a problem.

Still doing more experiments.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My husband keeps a bottle of baking soda in the bedroom so he can reach it as needed. He also keeps them in the car. Sometimes he has to sit up for a few hours in the middle of the night.

 

[Kroeran]

Wow, interesting that you mention that. When we were visiting our daughter in Denver for a few weeks, the LPR wasn't as bad. I've been wondering what was different there. Altitude, humidity, meals, no recliner?

Consider possible emotional basis of LPR and your state in the different locations?

Wondering what would happen if I snuck some legal weed in my wife’s smoothy ; - )

 

[Christine]

I have had acid reflux on and off over many years. Here is my anecdotal story. Perhaps it can be helpful.


Started eating low carb to avoid diabetes 2 which many family members have gotten. A few weeks in I realized my acid reflux and other digestion issues were gone! Great!


Years later I pointed my finger at bread and other wheat based foods. Experimented with bread on and off. Doc's tests did not find any celiac disease. But avoiding bread like you do on low carb or keto diets still works for me.


Recently read this article about people thinking they were gluten intolerant when the real problem often was Fructan found in wheat and other foods.



https://draxe.com/fructans-fructan-intolerance/


Scanning the list of what to avoid I found several aha! and whao! moments. My digestion system does not like wheat. My brother can't eat onions. And my dad avoid both cabbage and onions. And while not eating bread works for me I still get the occasional flare up. Especially when I started to use almond flour in many of my recipes. Aha!


The article mentions a time consuming FODMAP ellimination regime one can follow to find out more. But I have not tried the 8 week test yet.

 

[Bamaman]

My wife had the hiatal hernia surgery by laparoscope three weeks ago, and she came out of the surgery very well. While she's not yet eating steak, she's eating most anything else, including ice cream which triggered her reflux.

This is a surgery that many physicians don't understand or suggest. But it's because they are ignorant on the technique.

She's getting better every day, and is very satisfied she had the surgery. She's yet to have any reflux of any kind that previously absolutely scared her to death. If she doesn't ever have to go through reflux caused pneumonia again, this surgery could be a lifesaver for her. If you have reflux, be sure to go to a really good endodontist.