Acid Reflux and Baking Soda

[Hermit]

I seem to find that it's not an acute or immediate thing. I can have a soda at lunch, then have a problem for the next several nights.

There are lots of things I don't understand about this--I'm not sure the docs really understand it either. For example, I'm lying in bed and I burp and actually get some stomach acid up where I can taste it. Shouldn't that send my coughing up through the roof? It does not.

Sometimes, I'll be coughing in bed, I sit up and burp, and it immediately gets a lot better.

I totally agree. There is nothing that I can point to and say for sure how I am going to react. It is frustrating, but I have learned to live with it most of the time. There are some nights that I will cuss myself for eating something that in retrospect, I shouldn't have...

 

[TromboneAl]

I got my litmus paper today. A Michelob Ultra had a pH of 6*, and a quarter tsp of baking soda brought it to 7. Note, that doesn't mean I have to add BS to the beer, it just shows me how much is needed to neutralize it (could be taken after the beer).

Surprisingly, my Peet's coffee (Major Dickenson's) this morning tested out at pH 7. I tested it a few times.

So, if I assume that drinking acidic beverages makes the problem worse, I now know that .25 tsp BS would counteract the acidity of a beer, and that coffee isn't acidic at all (wha?).

Of course, I'm probably oversimplifying.

*Probably because Michelob Ultra is like making love in a canoe (F&^%(* close to water).

 

[Chuckanut]

I got my litmus paper today. A Michelob Ultra had a pH of 6*, and a quarter tsp of baking soda brought it to 7. Note, that doesn't mean I have to add BS to the beer, it just shows me how much is needed to neutralize it (could be taken after the beer).

Surprisingly, my Peet's coffee (Major Dickenson's) this morning tested out at pH 7. I tested it a few times.

.

Water can have a pH of 6 to 7, so you might test your water and compare it to the coffee test. Coffee normally has a pH of about 5. Higher roasting temperatures reduces the acidity of the coffee.

Here's one groups test results of roasting temp vs. pH:

https://www.koffeekult.com/blogs/blog/how-do-roasting-temperatures-affect-the-acidity-of-coffee

 

[Winemaker]

My wife and I never heard of the Stretta procedure, as it wasn't offered by doctor. Too late now, we would have tried that first.

Beer is made by fermenting a malt-water solution flavored by a small grain bill. When i make a 5 gallon batch, there is over 4 gallons of water in the wort. Any acidity that would in the beer, I think, would be a mild carbonic acid, created by the dissolved carbon dioxide.

It is also very important to realize that originally all beer is local. Originally made with local water, local grains, local yeasts. As we have become a world wide market and tasted beverages from all over the world, adjustments have to be made. For example, if I want to make a Guiness Stout clone, I have to get a recipe for the malt/grains and the WATER! I have to start with distilled water, then add salts, minerals, and buffers that will make the distilled water the same as they use in Ireland. I'm positively sure that Anheuser Busch, who bought Rolling Rock from Latrobe PA, has to "make" the water to brew RR, or it will not taste the same.

 

[TromboneAl]

Shasta diet orange soda had a pH of 4. 1/4 tsp of BS in 8 oz of soda brought the pH to 7.

Our water has a pH of about 7.2.

 

[TromboneAl]

My conclusions at this point:

If acid stomach is indeed causing my LPR, and there aren't aspects to this that I don't understand:

After Drinking           Take
-----------------------------------------------
Coffee                     Nothing
Beer                       1/8 tsp Baking soda
Soft Drink                 1/4 tsp Baking soda

 

[ERD50]

...

Beer is made by fermenting a malt-water solution flavored by a small grain bill. When i make a 5 gallon batch, there is over 4 gallons of water in the wort. Any acidity that would in the beer, I think, would be a mild carbonic acid, created by the dissolved carbon dioxide. ....

For beer, the "mash" (warm water/grain soak to convert starch to sugar) will have a pH of ~ 5.2.

Fermentation lowers the pH further, partially due to carbonic acid formation, but I think there are other things in play:

" Most lager beers finish at 4.2–4.6, with some ales ending as low as 3.8. (Sour beers may have pH values around 3.0.)"


https://byo.com/article/the-principles-of-ph/

You also have to consider the 'buffering' power of the acid/base. I don;t think pH tells you the entire story.

-ERD50

 

[Winemaker]

For beer, the "mash" (warm water/grain soak to convert starch to sugar) will have a pH of ~ 5.2.

Fermentation lowers the pH further, partially due to carbonic acid formation, but I think there are other things in play:

" Most lager beers finish at 4.2–4.6, with some ales ending as low as 3.8. (Sour beers may have pH values around 3.0.)"


https://byo.com/article/the-principles-of-ph/

You also have to consider the 'buffering' power of the acid/base. I don;t think pH tells you the entire story.

-ERD50

I stand corrected then on the wort pH, as I don't take a reading, and didn't think it was that acidic. I knew sour ales were, but I avoid them.

 

[TromboneAl]

I confirmed that our Peet's coffee has a pH of 7. Pike's Place Roast was pH 5. Grape koolaid: pH 5.

Ironically, I had been drinking Koolaid to avoid beer and wine.

My cheat sheet:

 

[Amethyst]

Al,

Is adding baking soda helping your LPR, or too early to tell?

 

[TromboneAl]

Al,

Is adding baking soda helping your LPR, or too early to tell?

Probably too early to tell. If 0 is no coughing or throat clearing at bedtime and 10 is 1-2 hours of off and on coughing, recent nights have been around a 4. Perhaps that's a little better than it's been before.

I'll see how it goes over the next few weeks, but there's always that variability to confuse things.

 

[kingle]

I have had what could be LPR for years. I was able to reduce it from causing constant throat clearing to very light by slamming down a tablespoon or so of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar with 'The Mother' once a day. I don't mix it with anything, just hold it in my mouth until I can fill the glass with water and wash it down. It sounds dumb but worked for me. Placebo? Who knows. People have asked me why the acidic vinegar doesn't exacerbate the problem. But a splash of vinegar is meaningless in a sea of corrosive stomach acid.

I have similar symptoms -- hernia, reflux, acid, cough etc -- and apple cider vinegar has worked for me. I found mixing with cider and a quick "chug a lug" worked for me... Supposedly, and not a lot of research on this.... the introduction of more acid via the vinegar triggers our stomach to not produce as much. Irritated throat and coughing much improved with the vinegar.

 

[rpguy4]

Chewing Gum after you eat or drink can help. :
The data show that gum chewing consistently increases esophageal and pharyngeal pH, and that bicarbonate gum causes greater increases than regular gum. For patients with LPR, gum chewing appears to be a useful adjunctive antireflux therapy.

 

[Elliotgb183]

Endodontist

My wife has a hiatial hernia, and acid reflux has gone down into her lungs and caused pneumonia three times. Twice she was hospitalized.

This is not something to fool around with. You don't say if you've been to an endodontist and had any tests. But an endoscope down the throat would tell you if you do have the hiatial hernia.

My wife is having day surgery Friday to repair another problem, but will be getting the hernia surgery in another 6 weeks, hopefully. She does not have strong enough lungs to go through pneumonia again from acid reflux.

I’m guessing you meant gastroenterologist and not endodontist unless there are dental issues involved?

 

[meleana]

I had acid reflux symptoms years ago and bought myself a foam wedge pillow on Amazon, where it props me up from the waist up and no issues since. I can sleep on my sides or on my back.


I do not take medications.

 

[Kroeran]

LPR

Wife has Had LPR, a different phenomena than GERD, for a year and I have spent a few hundred hours researching this.

The gold standard for information on this is

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_A._Koufman

Knowing Canadian healthcare is useless for this sort of thing, we paid cash to see the best ENT in Southwest Florida, Yale, Harvard, Stanford, and he completely follows Koufman.

LPR is complex and requires several steps to be active.

1) acid level of stomach
2) relaxation of or damage to sphincter
3) acid flow up throat
4) pepsin component of acid absorption into cells
5) acidic food trigger passing over pepsin infused cells

You can interfere with this sequence in several ways.

1) lower acid level of stomach, initially with tums or calcium, then with Zantac or similar over the counter, then with PPIs, 40 mg twice daily is standard LPR protocol, more than GERD. Reduce fats and meal size.

Block and temper acid acidity with European formula Gavascon <Advance.> after meals. Some EU research suggests this is more important for LPR than PPIs. Advance is based on seaweed which dams the acid below the sphincter and reduces the acidity if acid which penetrates the barrier. You buy it on Amazon only if in North America.

2) support the sphincter by eliminating carbonation, alcohol and caffeine, and bending. It has been suggested that ad hoc pillow support might bend the sphincter, rather raise entire bed. You quickly get used to it, and all beds should be raised as a preventative.

3) maintain vertically, especially when digesting. No food hours before bed, raise bed 6 inches, use official GERD pillow raisers that don’t bend torso. No yoga

4) Attack throat pepsin by sipping high ph water all day and sucking tums. Use high ph water in everything. We like Whole Foods brand

5) eliminate acidic foods which are triggering pepsin infused cells to digest your throat as it goes down. No fruit except mellons, no tomato bases. Don’t confuse foods that are chemically acid versus foods that impact blood alkalinity. Lemon is acid but is alkaline for blood. Get used to white meat chicken and tuna for a while. Pea protein smoothies. Almond milk. Bananas ok . All canned food is made acidic by law for preservation.

Cepacol for throat pain, no Advil, drink low fat kefir for digestive tract biome, hydrogen peroxide diluted gargle to clear throat of debris, don’t eat crumbly biscuit type food, which lodges in back of throat.

I think a big part of this is emotional. When my wife starts feeling better she kicks into her natural alpha dog self and then has a setback.

My brother in law who did everything right, but was not getting better, finally cured it with anti anxiety medication.

For sure get an ENT to laryngoscope your throat ASAP, no biggie, no prep, through the nose
This is our guy in Naples , $500 cash
http://davidgreenemd.com/

 

[marko]

I have similar symptoms -- hernia, reflux, acid, cough etc -- and apple cider vinegar has worked for me. I found mixing with cider and a quick "chug a lug" worked for me... Supposedly, and not a lot of research on this.... the introduction of more acid via the vinegar triggers our stomach to not produce as much. Irritated throat and coughing much improved with the vinegar.

I'm a big fan of ACV but wish there was more research on 'why'. One theory I read was that ACV goes in as an acid but is metabolized as an alkali.

Lots of positive votes for ACV both here and elsewhere though.

 

[Kroeran]

This is a subject near and ear to my heart. Just saw my physician on acid reflux at night. My lungs are at risk for sure. Have had a number of middle of the night aspirations. Already have had pneumonia three times but it is independent of this issue. Takes me a week to get over it and the damage to my system. Basically my physician said:

Stop drinking (probably not)
Do not make dinner your biggest meal
Stop eating at least two hours before bedtime
Be careful coffee intake as it is a major contributor to this issue

I agree with left side sleeping but it's difficult especially if you are a tosser and turner. Right side sleeping opens up the acid super highway. I have two wedge pillows now. One is a 4" and one is a 7". The taller they are I find myself sliding down after a period of time. I don't like taking things like Prilosec because they have an effect on absorption of key minerals and vitamins. My wife has done some research on split beds so she doesn't have to put her side up. I figured it would be a $5k all in investment to convert. A lot of dough for sure.

Just got to the Virgin Islands and was sick as a dog for six days leading up to the trip and not sure if it was a nasty cold or the response from another verp incident. It is definitely scary at times especially when you cannot breath when you wake up. A very quick look at what drowning would be like.

I suddenly started doing this a few months ago. Wondered if I was actually going to survive it.

I had switched from wine to beer with dinner, and rice milk instead of milk with my nighttime snack, and it may have been triggered by fatty meals, so I reversed that and elevated my bed. That seemed to stop it.

Read recently that beer is exceptionally bad for reflux.

 

[Kroeran]

My wife has done some research on split beds so she doesn't have to put her side up. I figured it would be a $5k all in investment to convert. A lot of dough for sure.

I don’t understand the aversion to a raised bed.

The fuss my wife put up before letting me do this for her! You can do it gradually with blocks you cut in the garage, or Old Tyme Pottery has nice cheap ones.

You get used to it fast and now I think it’s dangerous to have acid swimming up against your sphincter all night.

Or block raise the bed in the guest room and sleep separately until things improve.

 

[SubwaySinger]

Try taking HCL

Although I don't have heartburn, I suffer from LPR such that when I go to bed at night, I cough.

Two triggers for me seem to be coffee and carbonated drinks (soda or beer). Even if I have them at lunch, I might end up coughing at night.

Taking some baking soda helps, but many sites warn about baking soda causing rebound acidity later.

Here's my question:

Let's say I figured out exactly how much baking soda would bring the pH of a cup of coffee from pH 5 (acidic) to pH 7 (neutral). I could take that amount right after the coffee.

Think that would work?

Any way to determine that amount other than buy some pH strips and test?

 

[Buckeye]

Someone told me long ago that eating celery leaves would fix an acid stomach. It has always worked for me!

 

[dixter]

I have had to deal with this all my life... what I do now and for many years is every single morning when I wake up I take 1 tablet of Prilosec OTC and it works for me perfectly... if I don't take it early in the morning then lunch will start the acid and the prilosec won't work well for the rest of the day...

I get mine at SAMs..

and I did try the vinegar trick but stopped because someone told me its not good for your teeth enamel ...

if you get on Prilosec it takes a couple days to really start to work well and if you stop for say a week or more then when you start taking it again it takes a few days to work well.... so I try not to forget to bring plenty while traveling for extended periods of time...

 

[johnhkc]

Antihistamines control my acid (mostly)

Most of my acid problems are knocked out with Zyrtec. If I don't take Zyrtec for a few days, the acid will build and build until it fills my throat and it gets extremely painful.


Post-nasal drip can trigger acid which triggers more drip which triggers more acid, etc, etc.


One Zyrtec every morning knocks out that problem completely.


I also recently discovered that cumin kicks my acid production into overdrive (paprika only in large quantities). So, chili powder and cumin are out of my diet.


The last thing I do is put a 2x4 about 2/3rds up from the bottom of the bed under the box springs (not under the mattress). Then gravity helps keep the acid in the stomach.

 

[Amethyst]

When it comes to using H2 blockers for GERD/LPR, I'm concerned about the recently posited link between regular antihistamine use over time, and memory loss/dementia:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321632.php

Occasional use of H2 blockers, or other antihistamines, is probably OK.

We have a platform bed - no springs, no legs, just a mattress on a wood frame. Haven't figured out how to elevate it.

 

[TromboneAl]

Al,

Is adding baking soda helping your LPR, or too early to tell?

It's been almost a week now, and it seems that my system is working (with the same caveat that there's a lot of variability and I've had good weeks before).

For example, on Superbowl Sunday, I had wine with lunch, 12 oz of Mich. Ultra during the game, and another glass of wine with dinner. After each of those I took just 1/8 oz of baking soda. I had very little coughing etc. on that night (2 out of 10) and on all the other nights of the week.

When we go to Starbucks, I put a pinch of baking soda in my travel mug.

So, I'm liking my hypothesis: If I take just enough baking soda to make acidic drinks neutral, there's less chance of acid rebound—it's just as if I drank a drink that wasn't acidic.

pH 7 may seem arbitrary, but I figure that since paleo man drank mostly water, it's a good target.