GE-Let's Hope This is the Last Shoe to Fall

GE is one of the foundational stocks we are putting our clients into. I think that despite it's problems, it is fundamentally a good company.

Also, PG, ADM, and MO are to me no brainers. See my disclaimer before you jump in.........:)
 
GE is one of the foundational stocks we are putting our clients into. I think that despite it's problems, it is fundamentally a good company.

Also, PG, ADM, and MO are to me no brainers. See my disclaimer before you jump in.........:)

I prefer PM to MO. Do you have any comment on this pair?

Ha
 
I prefer PM to MO. Do you have any comment on this pair?

Ha

Might just be different taste. I can see why PM was spun off. However, I have always had success with MO, their dividend is nice these days.
 
A negative on owning GE. Isn't part of the price of taking government bailout money that you cannot increase your dividend for 3 years w/o government approval? On top of that government seems to really be discouraging dividends for the program. The pressure to suspend dividends on any entity that receives government money is going to ramp up next year:

New York Times calls for end of dividends on 10/20/2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/opinion/21stein.html?hp

11/12/2008 Fed warns banks on dividends

Bloomberg.com: Economy

I would not add new funds to any company that is getting bailout dollars until they emerge from the plan. Much of this may be why the banking sector is falling back below the July lows.
 
Perhaps I spoke too soon, looks like GE may break into the 15's before the day is done. Currently at $16.05
 
A negative on owning GE. Isn't part of the price of taking government bailout money that you cannot increase your dividend for 3 years w/o government approval? On top of that government seems to really be discouraging dividends for the program. The pressure to suspend dividends on any entity that receives government money is going to ramp up next year:

New York Times calls for end of dividends on 10/20/2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/opinion/21stein.html?hp

11/12/2008 Fed warns banks on dividends

Bloomberg.com: Economy

I would not add new funds to any company that is getting bailout dollars until they emerge from the plan. Much of this may be why the banking sector is falling back below the July lows.

It might be, but it only says you can't INCREASE your dividend. You are still allowed to pay your CURRENT dividend. It makes sense that when the Fed is giving you what in effect is a low interest note that THEY get paid back first........:D
 
It might be, but it only says you can't INCREASE your dividend. You are still allowed to pay your CURRENT dividend. It makes sense that when the Fed is giving you what in effect is a low interest note that THEY get paid back first........:D


I think that is a reasonable compromise but shareholders (like me) of banks such as BBT, and WFC that didn't need the TARPs money would be really screwed but suspending dividends.
 
How far down will it go? I can't really see any news other than the market in general to explain things. Am I missing something? I bought some GE in the 20's so not doing too well but thinking of buying some more at these levels but it continues to go down further.
 
How far down will it go? I can't really see any news other than the market in general to explain things. Am I missing something? I bought some GE in the 20's so not doing too well but thinking of buying some more at these levels but it continues to go down further.

It seems to be an amazing decline for GE and GS since Warren Buffet bought as a show of confidence. Both since 10/1 are now down about 50 percent. GE is denying market rumors of a dividend cut and claiming they will maintain. The market is not believing them, and in the current market condition it actually would be more fiscally prudent of GE to eliminate it's dividend, they just have too much debt and counting on the FED too much to roll over their paper.

Many of the banks such as BAC, wFC are under similar declines, seems mostly dividend fears as well as the notice from Paulson that they are not now going to buy the bad paper so the losses will sit on the financial entities.
 
I don't see capitulation yet, we need that before we can see any kind of rally. I knew the tech bubble was about to burst, when daytraders were regularly profiled in the WSJ and 75 year old men who never invested in anything but CDs in their life wanted to buy CMGI and TYC.........:(
 
very good chance capitulation was probably on Oct10th

very common for the real bottom to come after the spectacular day with heavy volume that everyone expects and the real bottom to be on lower volume and lower vix. just like 2002
 
I am pretty sure we will not see a "traditional capitulation" in this market, in the form of a wave of high volume selling. I am seeing the articles that recent selling is no longer forced margin call selling from traders and redemption from hedge funds.

Now we are continuing to see retail investors throw in the towel, but I think we are seeing fatigue and exhaustion set in and no longer pure panic. We have already seen the profiling of people abandoning equities which is the bear equivalent of day traders and 75 year old CD investors buying Pets.com

My form of capitulation is watching all these super cheap stocks out there and thinking that's nice but I am not going to buy any more. I am beginning to appreciate why they called the 1930s the great depression.
 
Hey FD, you said a few weeks ago you were putting your clients in at 19. How much did they make today. heh
 
I bought a few shares of GE today at 14.98 but this still does not come close to make me even in my overall shares. The market is simply nuts these days, down 300 at one point and then closed up 552.
 
I hope I am right. I scooped up about 10,000 shares of GE or clients today........:)
We all have opinions, but I'm curious why you would put your clients in GE instead of similarly cheap "industrial" companies like UTX, ITW and EMR (to name a few) that don't have the financial risk that GE does.
 
If I were your client, I would not appreciate you publicly discussing what you purchased for me today, and would probably fire you if I found out. There is this concept called "confidentiality" that some people still value. You might look into it.
 
We all have opinions, but I'm curious why you would put your clients in GE instead of similarly cheap "industrial" companies like UTX, ITW and EMR (to name a few) that don't have the financial risk that GE does.

I already have some of those. There are times to buy certain blue chips instead of waiting. When GE goes back to $20 or so, it will attract buyers. I have plenty of PG, TYC, BP, JNJ, PFE, CPB, MMM, AAPL, etc.
 
If I were your client, I would not appreciate you publicly discussing what you purchased for me today, and would probably fire you if I found out. There is this concept called "confidentiality" that some people still value. You might look into it.

Get up out of the wrong side of the bed? :p
 
I missed the reasoning, why do people keep highlighting October 10 as a probable capitulation date? I take it that it was the low point?
 
If I were your client, I would not appreciate you publicly discussing what you purchased for me today, and would probably fire you if I found out. There is this concept called "confidentiality" that some people still value. You might look into it.

Ok how is what FD is doing any different than a fund manager/financial adviser etc going on CNBC and saying we bought XYZ for our fund/clients.

FD's client are anonymous how is this possibly harmful to them. If anything it is beneficial, after all maybe Buffett is reading the boards and thinking about retirement, and decide Finance Dude is a smart guy, and decide it is time to buy a couple of billion of GE stock... Ok a bit of long shot but...
 
I already have some of those. There are times to buy certain blue chips instead of waiting. When GE goes back to $20 or so, it will attract buyers. I have plenty of PG, TYC, BP, JNJ, PFE, CPB, MMM, AAPL, etc.
I assume you already have some GE too, so I guess I don't see why you would chose to buy more of it over the others. The good part of GE is its industrial operations and those are similar in profitability and diversity to UTX, ITW, MMM, EMR, etc. Those companies are selling just as cheaply and their businesses have prospects that are at least as good as GE (all of them have more favorable earnings comparison forecasts for 2009 than does GE). However, GE has the finance side which could, at worst, blow it up or at best, will be an underperforming drag on operations for the near future.

FWIW, I've been a GE shareholder since 1991 so I've followed it pretty closely for near two decades now . . . and I sold 75% of it in the spring and summer this year. Not a decision I made lightly since I've had it so long but getting out of a financial industrial company into the other low debt industrial companies seemed wise to me at the time. We'll see how it pans out by 2025 . . .

When you have to borrow capital at 13%+ (when you count the redemption fee they are paying Buffett) you have problems. Especially following on the heels of all of those years of huge profits -- in retrospect it's easy to see that smart management should have saved some of that capital for a rainy day instead of blowing all the excess on stock buybacks. FWIW, in just 2007 and 2008 GE spent $17.4B repurchasing stock. While some of that was from business unit sales and I don't expect them to have forseen the magnitude of current problems, it's pretty bad to have spent $17B in the previous eighteen months repurchasing your stock at high prices and then have to turn around and borrow $10B on horrible terms.

I don't mean to be negative. I'm still a GE shareholder and I don't think they will collapse, I just think there are less risky opportunities that offer the same or better returns (especially in light of the pricing in the debt markets recently). If I wasn't mildly emotionally attached to my GE after two decades I probably would have sold it all.

FWIW, for a good chuckle from the 2007 Annual Report:

"In 2008, we should hit all of our financial goals and outperform the S&P 500. Our revenues should grow by at least 10% to $195 billion, with organic revenue growth at 2 to 3 times GDP growth. Our earnings per share should grow by at least 10%. Our return on average total capital (ROTC) should near our target of 20%. We expect to return $18 billion to our investors through the dividend and stock buyback."

"We have the discipline and the processes to win in this tough environment. We are in the fifth year of a successful organic growth initiative that is delivering results. More than half of our revenues are outside the U.S., and our global revenue growth was 22% in 2007. We have $150 billion of Infrastructure products and services in backlog. We have strict risk discipline, and as a result, have no exposure to losses from Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) and Structured Investment Vehicles (SIVs). We have retained a “Triple-A”-rated balance sheet and generate substantial cash flow, so we can invest while others pull back."
 
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