Sad Story

[Katsmeow]

Sad, sad story. The subject of the story who died last week was my childhood best friend. Seems like such an unnecessary death.

http://thelipstickchronicles.typepad.com/the_lipstick_chronicles/2011/02/the-least-of-us.html

 

[chris2008]

Really sad to read and so unnecessary.

 

[obgyn65]

Sorry to read this Katsmeow. This story, plus the many cases I know of, are the main reason why I am a huge supporter of Obamacare.

 

[samclem]

I'm sorry to hear of your friend's death. It was a sad case.

 

[JBmadera]

very sorry for your loss.

 

[Purron]

Seems like such an unnecessary death.

It was unnecessary. We can do better than this.

 

[KM]

Kats - sorry to hear about your friend. I have felt for a long time that we have to do better with health insurance.

We lost a friend unexpectedly 17 years ago. Mother of 3, her husband had MS and was bedridden. She stayed home to care for him. She was afraid to put him in the state-funded nursing home, as she worried she would lose the modest house they had and she still had 2 children living at home and a mortgage she could barely pay. She certainly could not afford health insurance for herself (and that was 17 years ago....)

She lost weight and was tired, but who wouldnt be doing what she was doing. She told everyone she was fine. When she finally went to the hospital, the doctor's asked her how and why she waited so long. She said it was because she could not afford to go to a doctor and/or medical care. She died 2 days later of breast cancer. Looking back, everyone agrees she must have known for at least 6 months, probably more. She knew and had just given up.

Two years ago I went with my sister to see her doctor when she was diagnosed with breast cancer. First thing I noticed was the big sign in his office that said if you didnt have health insurance, you had to pay for your visit upfront. I notice those signs more and more now.

I dont expect doctors or the medical community to work for free. I also believe insurance companies need to make a profit - otherwise why would they be in business. But we have to do better as a country to ensure medical rates and insurance rates are reasonable and fair for all. No one should die for the reasons these women did.

Again - my sympathies for your loss.

 

[FinanceDude]

Sad story, but why chose death over a potential bad credit rating? She would NOT have been refused treatment at any ER I know of in the US........that part seems totally unnecessary........

I doubt Obamacare would have guaranteed she was still alive, she seemed quite depressed about her llife in general........

 

[ERD50]

It is a sad story, and of course we need changes to our health care system. However, I find it offensive that they use this sad case to paint anyone who doesn't feel that 'ObamaCare' is the best/only solution as some kind of heartless monster.

I also question (but have not researched) some of the statements in there. Would she have really lost her house (often, that is protected)? And could she have got insurance? How much would it have been?

I know personally of people who didn't buy insurance, and they certainly could have, and then have a sob story to tell. I have personally heard people say they "can't get insurance", but when I ask, I find they never actually tried. They just assumed they can't because they are not getting it from their employer (or are between jobs). I got insurance for my son after he graduated, was off our policy and the first job he found didn't provide health insurance. The policy was $50 a month. No one lost their house. He went to the doctor when he needed to (a high deductible policy, pay the small stuff out of pocket, just like insurance should be structured for most of us).

I'm also offended by their twist of the Declaration Of Independence. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is not guaranteed to anyone regardless of which career or life choices they make. It means they are free to make the choices. If that was true regardless, I would have been a failed rock star, and should still expect to live the good life. Many of us chose careers that would provide for our needs, even if it wasn't our first choice of what we wanted to do. I don't think society could function if we were all starving artists.

But I am sorry for your loss.

-ERD50

 

[fisherman]

Sad story, but why chose death over a potential bad credit rating? She would NOT have been refused treatment at any ER I know of in the US........that part seems totally unnecessary........

I doubt Obamacare would have guaranteed she was still alive, she seemed quite depressed about her life in general........

Until you have been poor it is hard to understand why someone would not just goto the ER and receive the so called free treatment. The free treatment rendered at the ER I have visited is not worth having but the real answer is a matter of human pride.

I have a friend from my Bible study that is dying of cancer in his late 40s. They are so poor now from all the costs that they have even lost their car and his wife and child are dependent upon others to take them to see him in the hospital that is 30 miles away. His treatment may soon end as they may not be able to keep up the insurance payments on top of the bills without more help. I did not know any of the above until this mornings Bible study when the leader passed this on from his pastor.

This is not statement for or against the Health care law or whatever name you chose to call it. Each case is different and we seldom get all the facts but do seem to always get the bias from every side. We all need to better understand the situation so that we are not caught by it one day also.

 

[haha]

Katsmeow, I am sorry for your loss.

Ha

 

[Texas Proud]

I to am sorry for your loss...


but also agree with FinanceDude and ERD50 that this is a tool to try and defend the healthcare law...


I also find offensive the statement in the article...

"And, in a week when some talentless idiot like Charlie Sheen blows his $2 million/week salary on coke and hookers and ends up in the hospital, is it fair that Melissa Hall should lie suffering and in pain in the home she was afraid of losing by risking a trip to the emergency room?"

What the heck has Charlie Sheen blowing his money have to do with this case... I can say 'If everybody in America did not blow their money on a Starbucks everyday, Melissa Hall would not have to lie suffering and in pain...".... but it is not Charlies job to cover everybody... and it is also not everybodys job to live a life like a monk so everybody has health insurance...


Again, sorry to read about her....

 

[Major Tom]

That's an awful story Katsmeow - I'm very sorry to hear about this.

It's unconscionable that in a country as wealthy as ours that this sort of thing happens. We're doing pretty well with our infrastructure and economy, but our lack of comprehensive healthcare is a failing, in my opinion.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I also am very sorry for your loss, Kats. Were you close to her after childhood too?

I have some creative friends who scrabble together a living doing a little this and a little that. I don't know if they have insurance but I know they have made a choice to live a lifestyle that may not support all their needs. Your friend sounds like she really enjoyed her life--she could have worked somewhere that provided insurance but instead she followed her dreams.

 

[JPatrick]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

The free treatment rendered at the ER I have visited is not worth having but the real answer is a matter of human pride.

.

That's an interesting comment fisherman. If the treatment is not worth having, I like to hear your "better solution" for those who need urgent care.

 

[Nova]

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Major Tom]

I also find offensive the statement in the article...

"And, in a week when some talentless idiot like Charlie Sheen blows his $2 million/week salary on coke and hookers and ends up in the hospital, is it fair that Melissa Hall should lie suffering and in pain in the home she was afraid of losing by risking a trip to the emergency room?"

What the heck has Charlie Sheen blowing his money have to do with this case... I can say 'If everybody in America did not blow their money on a Starbucks everyday, Melissa Hall would not have to lie suffering and in pain...".... but it is not Charlies job to cover everybody

I noticed that and thought the same thing too, but disregarded it as not being a relevant point.

 

[Blackwoodt]

I'm so very sorry for your loss, no one should ever die because they lack health insurance, or are afraid of the cost.

 

[KM]

For the record, I have no opinion about someone based on whether they support or dont support ObamaCare.

I do think had my friend gone to the ER earlier, she would have received some form of treatment. But - I am pretty confident she would also been referred to an oncologist and then she would have had to go through finding someone to take her without insurance etc, etc.

Pride is a funny thing. My friend did not choose her path. Both she and her husband worked full-time, saved enough to buy a small house, and were happily raising 3 kids. They were not frivolous with their money. When he came down with MS, he didnt go out on disability. He went to work every day - in a wheelchair at the end. She also went to work. It wasnt until he could no longer get out of bed that he had to take disability. Bad s--- happens to good people some times. We talked insurance once and she had managed to get her kids covered in some state program - but she was not eligible and could not afford what was offered to her. Maybe she could and chose not to - I dont know. But I doubt it.

I think it is great that ERD50's son got health insurance for $50/mo. My son (26) pays $228 mo. Prices vary by age, state, and health history. I would caution anyone who assumes that just because they can get something that everyone else can.

I certainly didnt mean for my post to start a firestorm (as I am sure Kats didnt). I do know that I am passionate, maybe overly so, about health care. I used to be very unaware of the struggles many face, because I was healthy and had a job. It wasn't until DD was diagnosed with Type I diabetes that I started to fully understand how expensive things can be and how incredibly difficult it must be for people not as fortunate as I. Have some of those people chosen that path? Absolutley. But many haven't. And I think it is so sad when good people feel so defeated in life that would prefer to die. Yes - I think my friend fell into that category. Was is due solely to the health care system? Probably not. But I know it sure didn't help.

 

[youbet]

I have some creative friends who scrabble together a living doing a little this and a little that. I don't know if they have insurance but I know they have made a choice to live a lifestyle that may not support all their needs. Your friend sounds like she really enjoyed her life--she could have worked somewhere that provided insurance but instead she followed her dreams.

I have a friend like that too BWE. A brilliant (Mensa, etc.) man who seems to thrive marching to the beat of his own drum and avoiding any confining links to careers or owning "stuff." We were room mates in college in the 60's and have always kept in touch. He supports himself with contract work as a tech writer and seems to always come up with a good paying job for a few months when he needs it living here and there. He's an absolute ace at collecting gov't benefits and clever at securing inexpensive but nice places to live.

He mocks me to having spent my life working in factories and making sure I always had a decent benefit package to protect the family. (He's single, of course.) This involved frequently doing things that weren't my first choice of how to spend my time and my life.

I certainly don't begrudge him help when he doesn't feel like working. But the idea of paying higher taxes to provide him with subsidized or free health insurance while some of us have sacrificed big time to make sure we had it does give me pause. I know it's the right thing to do. And while I was working it never bothered me to pay higher taxes so that a portion could be used to help others. But now that I can no longer work, it's a bit scary to see that we "savers" are going to be responsible for others who choose to walk their own walk.

Still, how can we differentiate between those who truly need help and those who simply take life paths that expose themselves to risks while thinking our work-a-day mentality is silly?

Kat - my sympathy regarding your loss of a friend. Those are tough moments.

 

[Major Tom]

Still, how can we differentiate between those who truly need help and those who simply take life paths that expose themselves to risks while thinking our work-a-day mentality is silly?

You can only do so much to differentiate between those who "deserve" it and those who don't. One of the biggest arguments against most social programs is that they help the undeserving. However, I don't think this is a good reason to not provide such programs. If, by putting a system in place that helps folk who desperately need it, we also help a few who don't, then I see this as an unfortunate but unavoidable side-effect.

 

[kombat]

Wow, such a sad story.

While I agree with some of the comments bemoaning the red herring "appeal to emotion" fallacies (why does Charlie Sheen owe us health care?), it does highlight the ugly underbelly of health care in the US.

As a Canadian, it seems bizarre to me that in the US, education is seen as a fundamental right (everybody everywhere is allowed to go to school till age 18, right?), but health care is a different story. Up here, health care is as fundamental a right as education. We don't have mandatory insurance, or even subsidized insurance. We just have a "Health Card," just like a driver's license. You bring it to the hospital and they treat you. End of story. No bankruptcies, no ruining of credit. Just the care you need, no questions asked. I don't understand why the US is so resistant to a similar model.

 

[youbet]

If, by putting a system in place that helps folk who desperately need it, we also help a few who don't, then I see this as an unfortunate but unavoidable side-effect.

I think the debate begins when it appears that instead of helping many who desperately need help while we inadvertently help a few who don't turns into helping many clever enough to con the system while few who desperately need the help make out as well.

In the health care issue, there seems to be much disagreement regarding income levels where subsidization phases in. Even on this forum, where I respect the members and communicate with them almost daily, there was much talk of how retirement incomes could be manipulated so that health insurance subsidies would be received as though one were low income but while still living a nice, middle class life.

It's not a matter of helping people. It's a matter of having a payment scheme that spreads the burden fairly among those who can contribute and always makes working and paying better than not working and not paying.

 

[fisherman]

That's an interesting comment fisherman. If the treatment is not worth having, I like to hear your "better solution" for those who need urgent care.

I did not offer one and did not comment in a way that I should offer one as that was not the direction of my comment. I took great pains to not make my post in anyway political and providing any suggestion for change would immediately turn into a political argument.

I do have personal experience in the ER with this type of treatment and with paid for treatment as well. There is no comparison between the two levels I received. I was not born at the same financial state I now enjoy, so I have both experiences. If you have not had to use free treatment options please give them a try and I sincerely hope your experience is better than mine was. you can also question an ER professional about how and what treatment they provide based upon the patients ability to pay. Their answer for someone with chest pains would be a good example.

Again, This is not a statement regarding if you should pay for someone else's care or not or if the new law is good or not as those are much broader subjects. I was only passing on that the free care most allude to is something they very likely have never had to use and I hope they do not ever have to.

The bigger point of my post was how important it is to plan for these types of events as many on this board have the means to do so.

 

[Martha]

Kats, I am so sorry. It seems like such a needless death.

Sad story, but why chose death over a potential bad credit rating? She would NOT have been refused treatment at any ER I know of in the US........that part seems totally unnecessary........

I doubt Obamacare would have guaranteed she was still alive, she seemed quite depressed about her llife in general........

She didn't chose death. According to the article she didn't know what was wrong and avoided going to the doctor because she couldn't afford it. She diagnosed herself. Not an atypical story. Her depression does not seem especially relevant to her death, and if she had health insurance maybe her depression would have been treated.

I know all sorts of people who don't get medical care because they ca't pay for it. It might just mean not going to the dentist, but even that can have long term consequences. It might mean not taking medications, which can lead to bigger problems later. Like others here, I also know someone who avoided a doctor because she had no insurance and ended up dying of breast cancer because it wasn't treated early enough. Sure found a lump, but convinced herself it was probably nothing, as most lumps turn out to be. Things had gone too way to far by the time she went to the doctor. Now her husband rationalizes it as "it was her time."

Of course, others with insurance might avoid doctors too, but at least they are not avoiding them because they can't pay.

It is a sad story, and of course we need changes to our health care system. However, I find it offensive that they use this sad case to paint anyone who doesn't feel that 'ObamaCare' is the best/only solution as some kind of heartless monster.


-ERD50

The article did not say that.

I got insurance for my son after he graduated, was off our policy and the first job he found didn't provide health insurance. The policy was $50 a month. No one lost their house. He went to the doctor when he needed to (a high deductible policy, pay the small stuff out of pocket, just like insurance should be structured for most of us).



-ERD50

A woman her age could not get even close to $50 a month, and may very well not be insurable.

There are many who cannot afford the deductibles in high deductible policies. In fact, there is research which shows people going without necessary medical care because they can't afford the deductible.

I also question (but have not researched) some of the statements in there. Would she have really lost her house (often, that is protected)?



-ERD50

Depends. She might not be able to make mortgage payments if paying medical bills or if garnished for failure to pay medical bills. She might file bankruptcy but live in a state where there isn't much of a homestead exemption.

But a postmortem blame game would not be necessary if we valued health care for all in this country.

I'm also offended by their twist of the Declaration Of Independence. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is not guaranteed to anyone regardless of which career or life choices they make. It means they are free to make the choices. If that was true regardless, I would have been a failed rock star, and should still expect to live the good life. Many of us chose careers that would provide for our needs, even if it wasn't our first choice of what we wanted to do. I don't think society could function if we were all starving artists.


-ERD50

... and it is also not everybodys job to live a life like a monk so everybody has health insurance...

I hope someone closes this thread before I blow a gasket and do a Ron Boyd. There is no way to divide the deserving from the undeserving. I value having an educated and healthy population, so I think everyone is deserving. We can make it a right if we chose to make it a right. Getting health care does not equate to "living the good life" for me.

Tool to try to defend health care reform? So what. The story has some relevance.


And we don't have to live like monks to have national health care. Though it might do Charlie Sheen some good to live like a monk for a while.