The erosion of ideals

[Dtail]

Maybe it is a generational thing, but when I hear the word diversity in a corporate setting all that comes to mind is clueless hr taffy pulls and bs.

At one MC I worked at, they stated that 10% of our bonus would be based on Diversity hiring, but it never really was implemented.

 

[Which Roger]

Early in my career, a much-older co-worker said "A pessimist is an optimist with experience." It took me about 20 years to see that he was right.

 

[Car-Guy]

Or as I have heard it "Everyone's a liberal until they have to pay taxes".

Certainly does not apply to me or many that I know, not even close. I don't mind paying taxes but I do mind the extraordinary waste by those spending my hard earned money.

 

[Car-Guy]

Now after about 40 yrs ... it's clear that it has all been about the dollar, specifically the dollar in the pocket of MegaCorp. So many decisions were made based on financial return to the company, rather than being the right thing to do.

The optimism and idealism of youth is fleeting and easily undermined by capitalism and greed.

Almost all MegaCrops (and most mini corps) are in the business of making money (and as much as they can) but are happy to do the right thing for the people, "as long as it makes more money for them".

Yes, I too spent over 40 years working for the man. And I always knew it was about him/them, and not me. However, I learned that early and played their game, which allowed me to make my little fortune too. Go to school, work hard, retire early and enjoy life. It's the price of admission for so many of us.

Results, in first decade of my retirement, I'll easily spend in excess of 1m just on travel, hobbies, entertainment, etc. (or non essentials) Yes, the Mega Corps I worked for took a lot but I also got a lot.

 

[JoeWras]

Maybe it is a generational thing, but when I hear the word diversity in a corporate setting all that comes to mind is clueless hr taffy pulls and bs.

I know what you are saying in today's climate. My current Megacorp talks the talk and walks nothing. It is all BS.


Maybe it is just my faulty happy early memories, but I thought IBM was different about it way back in the day. More walk, little talk. It helped the work experience.

 

[Koolau]

Some phrases come to mind not all of which I'm capable of attributing:

"Why do you think they call it w*rk, kid?"

"There are no free rides/Nobody said it'd be easy." (John Mellencamp)

"Capitalism is the worst economic system - except for all the others."

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground;" Genesis 3:19a

If I'm making a point I guess it is that most people on the planet need to w*rk to survive. I feel blessed that the Megacorp I chose (or, more importantly, who chose me) was pretty decent most of the time. It got worse as the founders passed on, but was still better than average. Spending 36 years there got to be a drag, but on the whole, I can't complain (too much.)

Following is just my opinion:

Capitalism with all its faults and excesses is still the only system that fits in with the human animal's natural selfishness. We all have our moments of altruism (some more than others) but in reality we are all basically selfish. Because of this basic human trait, we need a balance (a selfish, greedy Megacorp comes to mind.) Otherwise, we sink into taking without also giving. It works for a while, but not for long. Naturally, YMMV as may your opinion.

 

[imoldernu]

So... 22 years of idealism... school, and then marriage.

Next 30 years, long hours at work, four children, but no moral compromise, and an acceptance of being an average citizen. A full life and satisfying, and when my company closed down, four years of being an entrepreneur... until a life scare. Until then, the "ideal" was to take my place in the world, and maybe to retire when I turned 65. Then... 1989 and cancer was the turning point.

No more the big house and the "good life". Take a chance and retire @53... That was 30 years ago. So, as to ideals? Changed along the way, but definitely never compromised with regard to Money. Learn to live according to the means. If that meant living in a Campground, sobeit... might have been the ultimate happy... best friends in the same boat, no frills and one objective... to live every minute to enjoy life.

I think we could do it again. Fitting in to the best parts of what's possible, but not looking for the next level.

We're now 82, and very realistic about the future. Looks like we'll be fine, but have backup plans for whatever happens. No cruises, no foreign trips, no new cars, trips to "The Theatre" or eating out five times a week. Feel we've been there, done that.

This is the time for the bucket list. futzing with electronics, digging in to the world situation, drifting up to the lake for a day or two... and spending as much time as we want in learning from history, the internet, and psyching out the future.

Life... never better.

 

[RobbieB]

I never wanted to change the world. The purpose of my job was to earn dough to live on and have fun.

 

[Midpack]

Hopefully none here who disapprove of MegaCorps hold investments or profit from any MegaCorps financial performance, that might be hypocritical.

There are good and bad corporations, good and bad management, and good and bad employees. And I suspect every generation pines for the good old days...

 

[bloom2708]

If the goal is to save up enough to "get out", then my Megacorp job will allow me to do that MUCH faster than working for another company with 1/2 the pay, terrible benefits and no bonuses/stock awards/etc.

Megacorp is using me. I am using Megacorp. I will quit as soon as possible. I am 47.

Ideals will not help me make $40k instead of $140k and make up the difference.

At some point you realize you don't know anything about anything. Certainties and Nevers are quickly forgotten.

Pile it up, quit when you can, don't forget to have some fun along the way.

 

[Koolau]

Hopefully none here who disapprove of MegaCorps hold investments or profit from any MegaCorps financial performance, that might be hypocritical.

There are good and bad corporations, good and bad management, and good and bad employees. And I suspect every generation pines for the good old days...

Excellent points. I understand there is a trend by some to invest only in companies which match investor's ideals. I think that might get expensive since "sin" is a lot easier to sell than virture, but, again, YMMV.

 

[pb4uski]

Nothing is wrong with MegaCorp on its own.

You have to realize that MC is its own entity, with no interest in your welfare,
besides what what HR might tell you.


Take care of yourself.

My experience with my last 3 employers was much different. In all cases, management (at least local management) understood that without good people that nothing good could get done and as a result people were valued... now, did they do some bonehead things.... of course! But in the long run, good people are valuable so it made sense to keep them engaged and happy. Given some of the horror stories that I read here, I guess I was lucky.

 

[brewer12345]

At one MC I worked at, they stated that 10% of our bonus would be based on Diversity hiring, but it never really was implemented.

It will no doubt be unpopular to say so, but aggressive implementation of diversity hiring is pretty bad. In the rush to be politically correct you end up with a bunch of coworkers who are largely ornamental.

 

[JoeWras]

It will no doubt be unpopular to say so, but aggressive implementation of diversity hiring is pretty bad. In the rush to be politically correct you end up with a bunch of coworkers who are largely ornamental.

Any hiring in a rush is a disaster. Current MC is rushing this. Another reason to get out. And yes, I am a fan of that kind of hiring, but not the way I'm seeing it being done.

 

[jollystomper]

I have zero complaints about my 39+ years with Megacorp. It was far from perfect, but it was very good to me. Since I have a personal interest in computing technology, many times my job felt like I was being paid to do my hobby. And I am not complaining about my earnings... I would never have thought it possible to make over $200K in a year without being a manager, executive, commissioned sales person, doctor, lawyer, business owner, or politician. Certainly the money they paid me is a reason I am FIREd.

I also understood that i could only go as far as my value to Megacorp was perceived, so I never took any of the salary or perks for granted. Every six months I would ask myself how confident I was in explaining to anyone my contributions.

Sure there were times of stress - layoffs, travel, weekend work, a few (fortunately not many) crazed co-workers, a few more crazed management, weird policies, etc. My retirement benefits I am receiving now are notably less than what they offered when I joined. But when I step back and look at the forest, despite banging into some trees here and there, the Megacorp forest was good to me.

 

[CaptTom]

When I started with MegaCorp, the top executives really believed they had three sets of "stakeholders;" stockholders, customers and employees. They looked for win-win-win solutions which were best for all three groups (as well as the long-term good of the company.)

Somewhere between then and retirement, the attitude toward employees, and even customers, became more one-sided. Basically, squeeze them for every dime, to give short-term benefits to the stockholders.

That's not a "company." That's organized theft.

The way I see it, you form a "company" to provide a product or service that one person alone couldn't. The first goal is to provide the customer with that product. To do that you need a good workforce. The very word "company" means a group of people. In this case, employees.

Selling shares and incorporating is just a way to raise capital to perform those goals better. A fair return on the stockholders' investment is a means, not an end in itself.

 

[Dtail]

When I started with MegaCorp, the top executives really believed they had three sets of "stakeholders;" stockholders, customers and employees. They looked for win-win-win solutions which were best for all three groups (as well as the long-term good of the company.)

Somewhere between then and retirement, the attitude toward employees, and even customers, became more one-sided. Basically, squeeze them for every dime, to give short-term benefits to the stockholders.

That's not a "company." That's organized theft.

The way I see it, you form a "company" to provide a product or service that one person alone couldn't. The first goal is to provide the customer with that product. To do that you need a good workforce. The very word "company" means a group of people. In this case, employees.

Selling shares and incorporating is just a way to raise capital to perform those goals better. A fair return on the stockholders' investment is a means, not an end in itself.

Well stated.

 

[pb4uski]

.... A fair return on the stockholders' investment is a means, not an end in itself.

I have different view... busineses exist to enrich their owners... shareholders... so it is the end.

However, in order to achieve that end, the business needs to produce a quality product or service that their customers want and sell it at a competitive price that allows them to make a fair return. In order to produce that quality producr service and provide a good customer experience, they need good workers... and in order to attract good workers they need to pay them fairly, offer good benefits and a work environment that makes them want to stay.

If you do it right and keep the long-run in mind it is a win-win for employees, customers and shareholders.

 

[marko]

When I started with MegaCorp, the top executives really believed they had three sets of "stakeholders;" stockholders, customers and employees. They looked for win-win-win solutions which were best for all three groups (as well as the long-term good of the company.)

My CEO used to say that CEO stood for "Customers, Employees and Owners (shareholders)".

 

[audreyh1]

I have different view... busineses exist to enrich their owners... shareholders... so it is the end.

However, in order to achieve that end, the business needs to produce a quality product or service that their customers want and sell it at a competitive price that allows them to make a fair return. In order to produce that quality producr service and provide a good customer experience, they need good workers... and in order to attract good workers they need to pay them fairly, offer good benefits and a work environment that makes them want to stay.

If you do it right and keep the long-run in mind it is a win-win for employees, customers and shareholders.

It's that "keep the long-run in mind" that is losing out big time with modern "professional" management.

 

[HI Bill]

I started out as an idealist.
I wanted to improve the world.
Then graduated from college.
Had a few ethical dilemmas at work along the way.
Lost faith in humanity, little by little (fueled in no small part by watching politics).
Now, at 52, I'm a bit fatigued, both emotionally, and physically.
Ready to retire, do what I want to do, and recognize that the world will continue in its own way, guided by people who make selfish decisions, and some who don't.
If I ignore the news, it doesn't change anything.
Anyway, just like I try to avoid negative people (sorry, I'm sounding like one now), I just plan to go on enjoying life after FIRE next year, not worrying about what I cannot change.
Selfish, but realistic?

 

[Conundrum]

Yes, the Mega Corps I worked for took a lot but I also got a lot.

That’s a great (and healthy)way to look at it.

As I have documented here at the end of my career I was not a happy camper and my health was not so good.

The irony is that the very thing that was burning me to a crisp gave me everything I needed to say goodbye early on my terms.

 

[CaptTom]

I have different view... busineses exist to enrich their owners... shareholders... so it is the end.

And that, to get back to the original title of the this thread, is the problem.

 

[flintnational]

And that, to get back to the original title of the this thread, is the problem.

Why would "enriching the owners and shareholders" (also known as the people who risked/invested their hard earned capital) be a problem?

 

[pb4uski]

And that, to get back to the original title of the this thread, is the problem.

Perhaps it is in your view, but doesn't have to be.... there are plenty of companies out there that do a reasonable job of enriching shareholders while at the same time providing good work environments for employees and good experience for customers.... and unfortunately there are plenty that do not.