Different paths for living life

[marko]

The one thing that really sticks out to me is, that when they get up in age they will have very little resources. A continuous living with very little and harder to find that odd job to have a little extra.

It sure can be romantic living in a small rundown apartment, eating only pizza, cashing in can deposits and having a lot of free time when you're 25.

When you're 50, it's just desperation.

 

[Amethyst]

Great wisdom here. Good thing my college never found me to invite me to a reunion ;^>

If it's not "awww, they have a lot more dough than I do," it'll be "awww, they have kids and I don't," or "how does she manage to keep her figure like that, must be genetics, so unfair" or "his wife/husband is way better-looking" or "wow, they seem really happy - why can't I be happy like that?"

I
What surprises me are the ones with what I perceive as a solid, lucrative career, who have way, way more than even I do, and are still very unhappy and insecure, and constantly feel they have to prove themselves (sometimes not by pulling themselves up but by pushing others down). I will never forget, at our college class 20th reunion, Classmate A going from happy on the first day to downright miserable the next day, after he found out that Classmate B, whom he thought he was smarter than when in school, was worth hundreds of millions. Classmate A was worth "only" tens of millions but you would have thought he was unhappily living in a van by the river by his mood and actions. I will take the "not perceived to have a steady career but happy" types over Classmate A any day of the week.

 

[Amethyst]

And substances. Substances help them get by.

And when they're old enough, if the substances haven't gotten them, there are various old-age subsidies, which I think have been discussed in older threads.

It sure can be romantic living in a small rundown apartment, eating only pizza, cashing in can deposits and having a lot of free time when you're 25.

When you're 50, it's just desperation.

 

[Amethyst]

Indeed, when I managed a division of software developers, a surprising number had studied music before getting into coding. One was a fellow manager. They still loved music, but coding (and managing coders) paid much better.

I worked with a woman who married a working musician - met him at a restaurant where he had a gig. She has the paying job. His is a tax deduction.

This was painful to me, his NASA dad as he was really good at math & science. Amazingly AFAIK only 5% of those with a music degree get a job doing music. .

 

[jollystomper]

And substances. Substances help them get by.

And when they're old enough, if the substances haven't gotten them, there are various old-age subsidies, which I think have been discussed in older threads.

I would also add sites like GoFundMe can provide assistance. One of my sons and other friends kids have turned to that for financial help at times and received donations to cover the situation. To be fair, I also know that my son has also given to others via GoFundMe, so in many cases it is not a one way street.

 

[38Chevy454]

Interesting discussion. I think there are some factors that play a role that I haven't seen directly mentioned so far. That being self confidence, or the application of that being self motivation. I see many people that do not have the self confidence to take on a challenge or have the drive to try and improve something in their life. It is that content with what you have idea that some previous replies have discussed. This is not a happiness issue, plenty can be happy with modest means. I am talking about being self confident that you can make things better, move up in your socioeconomic status. It takes risk and the internal drive to work toward that goal.

I think many on the forum here do have that self confidence, it is how you were successful in your career, and being able to take risks with long term savings to reach that end goal of retirement with the amount of resources you want to be happy.

I will add that I look back at college years and have good memories, even if I was quite the just getting by financially. Being a self supporting student I never had excess money to do many of the things my fellow students did. But I was happy and had a lot of fun; just when I wasn't working my part-time 25 hours/week job in school or full time during summers and breaks. The big difference is that I saw the end goal of graduating with engineering degree and this low money college student was a temporary status for me. I had bigger goals.

Maybe that last sentence in paragraph above is part of the key: having goals. If your goal is just getting through, then your path in life is a lot different than one having goals to change and improve your socioeconomic status.

 

[jollystomper]

Great wisdom here. Good thing my college never found me to invite me to a reunion ;^>

If it's not "awww, they have a lot more dough than I do," it'll be "awww, they have kids and I don't," or "how does she manage to keep her figure like that, must be genetics, so unfair" or "his wife/husband is way better-looking" or "wow, they seem really happy - why can't I be happy like that?"

Thanks. In truth, the example I cited was the exception to the norm at our reunions. Classmate A stood out so much that at one point several of his friends pulled him aside to point out what a fool he was making of himself.

We have gone back to all of our college reunions (they happen every 5 years). Maybe because most of the friends DW and I made in college tended to have similar drives for goals balance with a desire to stop and smell the roses , and we cheered out each others success throughout the years regardless of our own situation. The more common example is being in a discussion at one reunion with 3 other friends whose combined net worth is close to $1 billion. We found that we all enjoyed golf and were not "intense" about it, and making dates to visit each others areas to play a a round. They were just as happy playing on the public, inexpensive golf course that I play on as were when playing on one private country club course that one of them partially owned. It was all about the company, not the surroundings.

 

[Markola]

Thanks. In truth, the example I cited was the exception to the norm at our reunions. Classmate A stood out so much that at one point several of his friends pulled him aside to point out what a fool he was making of himself.

We have gone back to all of our college reunions (they happen every 5 years). Maybe because most of the friends DW and I made in college tended to have similar drives for goals balance with a desire to stop and smell the roses , and we cheered out each others success throughout the years regardless of our own situation. The more common example is being in a discussion at one reunion with 3 other friends whose combined net worth is close to $1 billion. We found that we all enjoyed golf and were not "intense" about it, and making dates to visit each others areas to play a a round. They were just as happy playing on the public, inexpensive golf course that I play on as were when playing on one private country club course that one of them partially owned. It was all about the company, not the surroundings.

LOL. Nothing personal but now I’m curious - How do you know what each other is “worth”? Do you all wear t-shirts at your reunions with your respective net worths on the back in big numbers? Does the Development Office calculate everyone’s stock option ownership and print the amounts on name tags?

 

[O2Bfree]

I always heard that if you want to know the most efficient way to accomplish a task, you should give it to a lazy person, as they will find the best way to do it with the least effort.

I've noticed that one way they accomplish this is to put off the task until it becomes unnecessary!

 

[jollystomper]

LOL. Nothing personal but now I’m curious - How do you know what each other is “worth”? Do you all wear t-shirts at your reunions with your respective net worths on the back in big numbers? Does the Development Office calculate everyone’s stock option ownership and print the amounts on name tags?

The other three are all fairly public figures in the financial and sports worlds whose public net worth figures are fairly accurate. Since we have kept in touch since college, we know the organizations we have worked for, and what we have encountered along the way. They do not care what I know, and I do not care what they know about me. We all see each other as successful but, more importantly, have the trust in each other from college days. Is more a source of jokes and put downs between us than jealousy .


The Classmate A I mentioned, on the other hand, is both (a) a showoff and (b) insecure to the point of practically investigating people to see if he is "ahead" of them. Sad.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Interesting discussion. I think there are some factors that play a role that I haven't seen directly mentioned so far. That being self confidence, or the application of that being self motivation. I see many people that do not have the self confidence to take on a challenge or have the drive to try and improve something in their life. It is that content with what you have idea that some previous replies have discussed. This is not a happiness issue, plenty can be happy with modest means. I am talking about being self confident that you can make things better, move up in your socioeconomic status. It takes risk and the internal drive to work toward that goal.

There's a flip side to that coin: people imbued early in life with the idea that they're special. A lot of people who pursue the arts fall into that group, IMO -- they have an unusual talent that should be nurtured.

Of course, the competition in those fields is fierce, and real success comes to only a few. Without burning ambition, a talent for self-promotion and a broad stubborn streak, it's a hard dream to pursue.

 

[pacergal]

So many of us here all retired because we did not like our jobs, "the BS bucket was full".
I see and talk with many younger generation folks happy, healthy, seeming to enjoy life and enjoy their jobs. So many with entrepreneur ideals, sure the job may not be high paying, but they are doing something they like. May turn out great, may always struggle. Many willing to house share to split expenses.
But happy, content? Heck yea!
Something to be said about that.

 

[jollystomper]

One thing is those people are working and have a career. It is the ones that don't have the try/drive or a goal to see what the future will be like without job, no matter what the job is.

Maybe that last sentence in paragraph above is part of the key: having goals. If your goal is just getting through, then your path in life is a lot different than one having goals to change and improve your socioeconomic status.

There's a flip side to that coin: people imbued early in life with the idea that they're special. A lot of people who pursue the arts fall into that group, IMO -- they have an unusual talent that should be nurtured.

Of course, the competition in those fields is fierce, and real success comes to only a few. Without burning ambition, a talent for self-promotion and a broad stubborn streak, it's a hard dream to pursue.

When I worked I had the chance to talk to middle/junior/highs schoolers and at my college about careers and, to a degree, life in general after college. Some of the points I tried to make relevant to the words I bolded were:

- A goal without a plan of execution is just a dream.

- Your goals should be balanced - not too narrow, not to broad.

- If you think the goal is challenging, have a backup plan. Life is not fair, and there are no guarantees in life.

- You will need help to achieve your goals. Try to seek out and observe those who can help you. Do not put restrictions on the backgrounds of those who can help you. That help can either be to (a) advance you towards that goal, or (b) give you a reality check while at the same time informing you of other potential goals that you may not have been aware of.

- You are unique, you are NOT special. You are naturally "unique" because there is no one else on earth like you. You do not begin to approach "special" until (and you may need some help with this) you figure out what talents and skills you have or can obtain that will help you achieve a goal that is beneficial to others in some way, shape, or fashion.

- Goals do not need a financial focus, but it should be a consideration. You do not need to have lots of money, just "enough" money. How one defines "enough" is a personal choice.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

When I worked I had the chance to talk to middle/junior/highs schoolers and at my college about careers and, to a degree, life in general after college. Some of the points I tried to make relevant to the words I bolded were:

- A goal without a plan of execution is just a dream.

- Your goals should be balanced - not too narrow, not to broad.

- If you think the goal is challenging, have a backup plan. Life is not fair, and there are no guarantees in life.

- You will need help to achieve your goals. Try to seek out and observe those who can help you. Do not put restrictions on the backgrounds of those who can help you. That help can either be to (a) advance you towards that goal, or (b) give you a reality check while at the same time informing you of other potential goals that you may not have been aware of.

I saw this and it reminded me of one more thing. Nepotism is real. As a journalist I knew of a bunch of people who followed in a relative's footsteps and benefited from that established person's connections or family name. I could point out many people in the performance arts who got a similar leg up. The scions also experienced the lifestyle connected with the career, once removed. And they likely received little pressure to get a "real" job.

 

[street]

Very interesting in-depth analogy.

 

[RobotMom]

I think times have really changed. I have a niece who is 36 and lives with her parents. She went away to college but came home and has basically lived with her parents the whole time. They baby her. For example, my sister told me on a visit home that she pays for my niece's gas and insurance (my sister is retired). I asked why and my sister said it was because my niece does not make much money. Oh really? Hmmm. I thought I saw picture of her from Las Vegas, the Mexican Riviera, Greece... And that's a person who can't afford gas? Interesting.

Like other PPs, my niece does not have a career. She worked in swimming pools as a lifeguard and is now the lifeguard manager in a part time gig. Plus, I think she worked at a cannibus store and has done other odd jobs. I wonder how/if people like that plan to ever retire...

All that being said, I do not want that like for my two girls and am not raising them to want that. They need to want their own place!

 

[yakers]

I saw this and it reminded me of one more thing. Nepotism is real. As a journalist I knew of a bunch of people who followed in a relative's footsteps and benefited from that established person's connections or family name. I could point out many people in the performance arts who got a similar leg up. The scions also experienced the lifestyle connected with the career, once removed. And they likely received little pressure to get a "real" job.

That was Archie Bunker's Theory of Relativity

 

[Nemo2]

The scions also experienced the lifestyle connected with the career, once removed. And they likely received little pressure to get a "real" job.

Prince Harry comes to mind.

 

[Markola]

Interesting, thought-provoking string. Maybe we’re mystified by others’ lifestyles and choices because we have different fundamental objectives for what we think will satisfy us most in our own lives. Some want stimulation, others comfort, others adventure, others money, others fun, others creativity, others power, others independence, others connection, others service, others security...

None of them are “wrong”, just wrong for us based on what we value most. Yeesh, no wonder we sometimes can’t understand other people’s life paths. Where things usually go awry, among individuals and in society at large, is when one person tries to fit another person into one’s “obviously correct and verifiably successful” formula, rather than accepting the other person’s difference.

Regardless, what I have noticed is that everyone, one way or another, seems to at least muddle through to the end.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Prince Harry comes to mind.

Or Carlos Santana, who was immersed in music at an early age because his father was a professional mariachi. Would he have achieved greatness if he hadn't had that role model in the house?

I know a reporter at the New York Times who worked at my paper for a while. His father was a newspaper journalist in Iowa and downstate Illinois. The son's family connection helped him land a job with us, but he was clearly destined to move up to the big league. He saw his father at work and understood how the profession worked going in. He deserves to be where he is, and while some of his advantage came from "who you know," he also absorbed a lot of insight by being close to the profession. It made him better at what he does.

 

[Nemo2]

It made him better at what he does.

OTOH, there's the defunct Eaton's department store that was once Canada's largest. Started in 1869 by Timothy Eaton it was passed down through the family.

Just prior to its collapse I read a comment, purportedly attributed to one of the senior employees, pertaining to the three brothers who were at that time running it (into the ground?), to the effect that there were "Three boys, one brain".

(Of course, there were other factors in play, the arrival of big box stores, etc, but the downhill slide was apparently quite evident.)

 

[Music Lover]

So many of us here all retired because we did not like our jobs, "the BS bucket was full".
I see and talk with many younger generation folks happy, healthy, seeming to enjoy life and enjoy their jobs. So many with entrepreneur ideals, sure the job may not be high paying, but they are doing something they like. May turn out great, may always struggle. Many willing to house share to split expenses.
But happy, content? Heck yea!
Something to be said about that.

Doing something you like and struggling is a lot easier when you're young. But if they're still struggling or sharing a house at 40+ they probably won't be happy and content.

The brother of a friend spent most of his life in low paying jobs, some of them were fun and he seemed to be enjoying himself. But now he's in his late 50's with next to nothing saved for retirement and living in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment. He may always have to work to have enough while his younger brother (my friend) is retired with a paid off house.

 

[RobotMom]

I just don't understand young people who graduate from college and move back in with their parents and stay and stay and stay. It seems very common in my circle of friends. When I graduated from college (a hundred years ago) there is no way I would move back home. I wanted to be independent and on my own. I loved my parents but I did not want to live with them and I don't think they wanted that either. In my family we might help the kids out for a short time with rent money if they are having a hard time but they are not moving back home.

EXACTLY! My husband and I joke that people like this back in the day would never have gotten laid! No one wanted to go out with a deadbeat living with their parents. Now, it seems like it is perfectly fine. Go figure.

 

[RobotMom]

My parents were mean. They wouldn't let me have sleepovers with my boyfriends. I took a job after college 5 hours from home and was happy to have my own place even though it was a tiny apartment.

I lived at home when I went to college because my parents couldn't afford to send to me college. I stayed during part of grad school. One night, I stayed overnight at a boyfriend's house. When I got home, my dad say me down and said "no lady living under my roof stays overnight at a man's house." In my head I was thinking: TIME TO MOVE OUT! And I was out within the month. LOL!

 

[brett]

We have often wondered the same thing. Is it home influence or lack thereof or friends or something else?

My spouse has four siblings, with families who live in a small town. Huge difference between families.

In two of the families the children went to universities in various ciites. Some went on to post graduate work. All have had interesting and rewarding careers, travel etc.

The other two families had children that seemed afraid to leave their mommies apron strings or their high school friends. Some had no post high school edu. A few went to hoacky bible schools (more bridal than bible) or took courses at a small community college that lead nowhere other than low paying service industry jobs....especially since they would not leave town to for further education or job opportunities. More of a waste of time and money than anything. Before they knew it they married too young, some were single parents.

They went either because their friends were going or they did not have enough gumption or guidance to investigate alternatives. As a result most of them are still in low wage insecure jobs, service or otherwise, and have not really travelled anywhere. And absolutely zero preparation for retirement. They are all smart. It just seems such a waste of talent and opportuntiy to us. Watching this from the sidelines made a difference in how we encouraged our own children to move forward with their lives, become independent, and follow career paths that they found rewarding, interesting, etc.

As adults, the difference in the outlook of these nieces and nephews is so incredibly different. As is their interest in life.