Different paths for living life

[harllee]

What happens when these folks hit 65-70? A close family member was a "live for today" kind of person. She decided to not go to college although her parents wanted her too and would have helped her. She took a low paid dead end job, lived at home, never budgeted, never planned. Received an inheritance and blew it all quickly. Married and divorced 3 times. Now at 65 she has health issues and still has to drag herself to work everyday to pay the bills. Had surgery and had a high deductible insurance policy and now owes $10,000 in medical bills. She is now eligible for Medicare but does not want to get a supplement because it costs too much ( we will probably buy her a supplement and pay for it ourselves). We are helping her out financially (this is where our latest stimulus money went) but we will not give her the money directly --we write a check directly to her landlord for her rent. I worry what is going to happen when she can no longer work. Her SS will not be enough to live on. I am afraid she thinks she will move in with us but that is not going to happen.

There are consequences in later life to living for today and not planning.

 

[tomc5179]

The world is a far different place now than it was forty years ago. I was lucky to start my career in the early 80s right after the recession. People were ambitious, they were driven, nobody wanted to live with their parents. That's when the 'yuppy' term was coined. Everything was black and white. If you were poor or middle class, you wanted to be rich. I wasn't the smartest, I was born into a middle class family, I worked as long and as hard as I could. Everyone I knew did the same. That collective drive built this country. Also felt I was compensated well for my efforts and the jobs just seem to match people skills, talents and desires better back then than today.
What's going on today is the youth are disillusioned, there's no hope, the 1% ran off with everything, the rich get demonized, competition is bad, the social service safety net is huge so you don't have to work much (if at all), you have an army of peers who think exactly like you, etc. Bottom line is as a country we're a victim of our own success.

^ This. I see three types of younger people - 1; Good, hard working, motivated and planning for their future. 2; Lazy and living in the moment. Won't ever get very far. 3; Otherwise good young people that have become disillusioned and believe the crap ideas that have been pushed onto them by media and society. At risk for not getting far unless their mindset can be changed.

Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[frayne]

^ This. I see three types of younger people - 1; Good, hard working, motivated and planning for their future. 2; Lazy and living in the moment. Won't ever get very far. 3; Otherwise good young people that have become disillusioned and believe the crap ideas that have been pushed onto them by media and society. At risk for not getting far unless their mindset can be changed.

Garbage in, garbage out.

I think you have just described each generation since the beginning of time.

 

[Markola]

I think you have just described each generation since the beginning of time.

+1. “Well, in MY day....” generalizations don’t really hold up. It’s been ant vs. grasshopper since the beginning of humanity.

 

[nap470]

Funny...I'm 60 years old, recently retired with a healthy nest egg. Then I see blogs from 35 year-olds who have "retired" or taking a sabbatical from the rat race and sailing around the world. I think to myself, "what did I do wrong?" Why are they having all the fun?

I always take it upon myself to give each of my nieces and nephews "the speech" about starting early and funding their 401k when they enter the working world. Whether they want to hear it or not. My daughter is still in college so she has not yet had to sit thru "the speech" yet.

 

[Lsbcal]

I had to look up the ant versus grasshopper idea. I guess I was always an ant.

The Ant and the Grasshopper, alternatively titled The Grasshopper and the Ant (or Ants), is one of Aesop's Fables, numbered 373 in the Perry Index.[1] The fable describes how a hungry grasshopper begs for food from an ant when winter comes and is refused. The situation sums up moral lessons about the virtues of hard work and planning for the future.[2]

Even in Classical times, however, the advice was mistrusted and an alternative story represented the ant's industry as mean and self-serving. Jean de la Fontaine's delicately ironic retelling in French later widened the debate to cover the themes of compassion and charity. Since the 18th century the grasshopper has been seen as the type of the artist and the question of the place of culture in society has also been included. Argument over the fable's ambivalent meaning has generally been conducted through adaptation or reinterpretation of the fable in literature, arts, and music.

and this for a historical background...

The fable concerns a grasshopper (in the original, a cicada) that has spent the summer singing while the ant (or ants in some versions) worked to store up food for winter. When that season arrives, the grasshopper finds itself dying of hunger and begs the ant for food. However, the ant rebukes its idleness and tells it to dance the winter away now.[3] Versions of the fable are found in the verse collections of Babrius (140) and Avianus (34), and in several prose collections including those attributed to Syntipas and Aphthonius of Antioch. The fable's Greek original cicada is kept in the Latin and Romance translations. A variant fable, separately numbered 112 in the Perry Index,[4] features a dung beetle as the improvident insect which finds that the winter rains wash away the dung on which it feeds.

The fable is found in a large number of mediaeval Latin sources and also figures as a moral ballade among the poems of Eustache Deschamps under the title of La fourmi et le céraseron.[5] From the start it assumes prior knowledge of the fable and presents human examples of provident and improvident behaviour as typified by the insects. As well as appearing in vernacular collections of Aesop's fables in Renaissance times, a number of Neo-Latin poets used it as a subject, including Gabriele Faerno (1563),[6] Hieronymus Osius (1564)[7] and Candidus Pantaleon (1604).[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

 

[MichaelB]

It seems so easy and simple to categorize others based on casual observation, while we remain complex individuals. We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions.

 

[38Chevy454]

It seems so easy and simple to categorize others based on casual observation, while we remain complex individuals. We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions.

I will only add "proof is in the results". Unfortunately for many the results come too late to be able to make substantial changes.

 

[street]

^ This. I see three types of younger people - 1; Good, hard working, motivated and planning for their future. 2; Lazy and living in the moment. Won't ever get very far. 3; Otherwise good young people that have become disillusioned and believe the crap ideas that have been pushed onto them by media and society. At risk for not getting far unless their mindset can be changed.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Very true.
I wouldn't call it judging people, but a reality that has a huge effect on peoples lives as they age. I actually feel bad for so many I know, that are going to struggle in their late years of life. It is their choice and not that they aren't intelligent, I fell they just like the easy way. The easy way, may not be so easy thou.

 

[Major Tom]

I see three types of younger people - 1; Good, hard working, motivated and planning for their future. 2; Lazy and living in the moment. Won't ever get very far. 3; Otherwise good young people that have become disillusioned and believe the crap ideas that have been pushed onto them by media and society. At risk for not getting far unless their mindset can be changed.

I think there are far more types of people than that. Human beings are infinitely complex.

Incidentally, regarding 2 - who's to say that living in the moment is lazy? I stopped working at age 45, but I think that I was the lazy one. I worked quite diligently at a career that I absolutely loved. It wasn't hard, because I enjoyed what I was doing, and was driven in that direction. I saved money and, for a few years, made some extra money by buying and selling rental property. I was hardwired this way, so it wasn't tough - it just came naturally. When many of my co-workers were spending much of their money traveling and going out, I stayed home and saved my money. Once again, this wasn't hard work because I'm simply wired this way. However, I wouldn't say that I was the smart one, while they wasted their lives away. They accrued more life experiences and great memories than I did, while I was busy going home to have dinner, and saving my money. I wish I could say that I have faced and overcome many hardships and struggles in life, but I haven't.

I have a good friend who cannot hold onto money to save his life. He has always struggled to pay rent. Any time he got a bonus at work, it was spent on "fun" things within weeks, and he was back to living paycheck to paycheck. Any place he lives in becomes a mess, and he struggles with basic maintenance tasks, sometimes needing help from friends and hired help to tidy his belongings, and generally keep his place from falling apart. Some would pass judgement, and declare him to be irresponsible and immature, but I know him to be a highly intelligent and caring individual, who has struggled with anxiety and depression his whole life. He brings light and happiness into the lives of everyone who knows him. He is much loved by many people, and a very, very worthy human being.

You may be seeing three types of younger people but, if you get to know some of them a bit better, I think you will see that there are as many types as there are people.

It seems so easy and simple to categorize others based on casual observation, while we remain complex individuals. We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions.

+1. I sure wish I had the ability to express myself in as few words as MichaelB did.

 

[O2Bfree]

Funny...I'm 60 years old, recently retired with a healthy nest egg. Then I see blogs from 35 year-olds who have "retired" or taking a sabbatical from the rat race and sailing around the world. I think to myself, "what did I do wrong?" Why are they having all the fun?

Our neighbor's 30-something daughter finally moved out of their house after getting Section 8 housing assistance. DH noticed that the neighbor was walking two little dogs yesterday and asked if they'd got new pets. The neighbor said no, they were the daughter's dogs. She'd left them there for a week because she went to Hawaii. Stimulus check perhaps.

Another type is the person who, for various reasons, keep loser/users in their lives, hoping they'll change for the better. I have a cousin like this who gave up a good job with the FBI to stay with her alcoholic, abusive husband whose criminal record kept her from getting a necessary security clearance. She ended up working in restaurants and became a heavy drinker herself. At 72, she's still working part-time and drinking full time.

 

[NanaW]

It has always intrigued me, how so many young people I know or families that just live life. They have no steady job or a career path in life. I see these young, clean living, adults with good health and great families and I always have a question how they do it.

I have some neighbors and a few good friends that their kids don't work but for an odd job here and there, or work in a pizza place etc. with no real future. They are great young people, always seem happy and accommodating when I'm around them or see them. I see nothing wrong with their life style, just isn't in my genes to not have a goal from very young and go get it attitude.

I'm not belittling these people or look at them any differently then anyone else, but not sure I would go through life living life like that. I'm talking kids in very late 30's to in their mid to late 40's.

The one thing that really sticks out to me is, that when they get up in age they will have very little resources. A continuous living with very little and harder to find that odd job to have a little extra.

I'm not sure if I feel bad for them but it would be a huge concern for me.

Young people today have the attitude why bother the world is a mess I’m just going to enjoy my life now , they don’t think about what they are going to do when they get older it’s kind of sad

 

[JP.mpls]

My observations of a few of my nieces and nephews, and their boyfriend/girlfriends:

Several of them have hung in there to get college degrees, but also accumulate huge student loan debt.

They need job opportunities to start thriving, and being successful. Several have not found decent jobs in their fields. They are getting frustrated, and taking jobs they don't want just to get by.

I don't think it is all lack of effort. I know I found work in my field of choice, and thrived.
The whole situation is concerning. I hope the best for them, but I'm acknowledging that they live in a different world than the one I dealt with at their age.
JP

 

[harllee]

My observations of a few of my nieces and nephews, and their boyfriend/girlfriends:

Several of them have hung in there to get college degrees, but also accumulate huge student loan debt.

They need job opportunities to start thriving, and being successful. Several have not found decent jobs in their fields. They are getting frustrated, and taking jobs they don't want just to get by.

I don't think it is all lack of effort. I know I found work in my field of choice, and thrived.
The whole situation is concerning. I hope the best for them, but I'm acknowledging that they live in a different world than the one I dealt with at their age.
JP

What did these nieces and nephews and friends study in college? Sometimes young people do not major in areas where there are jobs. I have always wondered where folks who study things like English Lit and Philosophy expect to get a job. My great niece is graduating with a major in accounting and plans to get a CPA and has several good job offers.

 

[Music Lover]

It seems so easy and simple to categorize others based on casual observation, while we remain complex individuals. We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions.

But it's not all casual observation. In many cases the examples here are of people that are well known by person who commented.

 

[Markola]

What did these nieces and nephews and friends study in college? Sometimes young people do not major in areas where there are jobs. I have always wondered where folks who study things like English Lit and Philosophy expect to get a job. My great niece is graduating with a major in accounting and plans to get a CPA and has several good job offers.

Of course, an education is not necessarily the same thing as job training.

 

[Bullwinkle]

After college I did some traveling on savings but got uncomfortable with the idea that I wasn't "being useful" or engaged with society really... I felt like I happened to have some savings so I could just sort of hang out while everyone else was working. Besides, savings run out!

I returned to the US and more or less accidentally stumbled into a well-paying (but cubicle-oriented) job and have been saving ever since. I don't see it as hard work or ambition really, but sort of as the "safe choice" and a natural tendency to value security. I don't think it was a bad choice, because it's still a good theory, of having the freedom and security to pursue my interests when I'm older, rather than worrying about practical things like rent, health care, etc. I just hope the theory can come true someday! I tell myself I'm taking the long view, and I suppose I am, but the other side is maybe it was just the path of least resistance at the time. But there's always the nagging idea that life and youth only come once, and the more "grasshopper style" people I've seen are living a life I will never see or never even know... there's a price to pay for saving too! I don't know any of those people (or anyone really) well enough to be able to tell if what they're doing instead of building their ant-pile is so great, or how much they worry about rent or health care, so the idea still idea nags. Of course from the outside everyone puts out the image that everything is great. Also, I'm aware that the price of security goes up forever, with diminishing returns, I think we see this in the OMY sentiment.

Ironically though, in some ways I feel like I was more engaged with society when I was traveling, because I would play at weddings and events. I didn't make money but I did some things for people, and contributed to some kind of social unity. Now of course the things I do now are also valued just by the fact that I get money to do them, but there is no sense of history, culture or community. I don't know if this is something about the US, or where I live, or what I do.

 

[jollystomper]

What did these nieces and nephews and friends study in college? Sometimes young people do not major in areas where there are jobs. I have always wondered where folks who study things like English Lit and Philosophy expect to get a job. My great niece is graduating with a major in accounting and plans to get a CPA and has several good job offers.

In my view, only half of it is what you major in. The other half is how outgoing you and how you develop a network - via, making contacts, nepotism, whatever. While the odds are better when you major in a job that is in demand, the jobs still are not going to come looking for you, you have to seek them out, and a lot of help from seeking them out comes from both your personality and your contacts.

Also, the point about education != job training is true. The analogy I use is that you can memorize every book in the world about playing a particular sport and still stink at playing that sport. The education has to tie with some level of applying that education.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Yo Yo Ma did not learn to play the cello from a book.

We’ve become far too elitist in our expectations of others.

There are two types of people in the world. Only two. That’s it. Two ONLY. You are either THIS, or you are THAT. Where do you stand?

Actually, there are three types of people. Those who can count and those who can.[emoji16]

 

[street]

^ I like that.
There is a price to pay for freedom, if we want a worry free life financially in our retirement years.

I also know we all have one shot at life and to have sufficient funds later in life, is starting early and save often.

Time moves fast isn't going to wait, so it is very important to have the power of compounding.

I'm in no way belittling, any style or path some take in life financially. Starting early having a plan/goals to where you want to be in later life, is critical for having what you want and need.

 

[Amethyst]

They enjoy the ride while it lasts, then try to offload their problems onto anyone who will accept them. If they can't offload, they go on public assistance and die.

Ants and grasshoppers...the old story.

What happens when these folks hit 65-70? A close family member was a "live for today" kind of person. .

 

[Letj]

I think there are far more types of people than that. Human beings are infinitely complex.

Incidentally, regarding 2 - who's to say that living in the moment is lazy? I stopped working at age 45, but I think that I was the lazy one. I worked quite diligently at a career that I absolutely loved. It wasn't hard, because I enjoyed what I was doing, and was driven in that direction. I saved money and, for a few years, made some extra money by buying and selling rental property. I was hardwired this way, so it wasn't tough - it just came naturally. When many of my co-workers were spending much of their money traveling and going out, I stayed home and saved my money. Once again, this wasn't hard work because I'm simply wired this way. However, I wouldn't say that I was the smart one, while they wasted their lives away. They accrued more life experiences and great memories than I did, while I was busy going home to have dinner, and saving my money. I wish I could say that I have faced and overcome many hardships and struggles in life, but I haven't.

I have a good friend who cannot hold onto money to save his life. He has always struggled to pay rent. Any time he got a bonus at work, it was spent on "fun" things within weeks, and he was back to living paycheck to paycheck. Any place he lives in becomes a mess, and he struggles with basic maintenance tasks, sometimes needing help from friends and hired help to tidy his belongings, and generally keep his place from falling apart. Some would pass judgement, and declare him to be irresponsible and immature, but I know him to be a highly intelligent and caring individual, who has struggled with anxiety and depression his whole life. He brings light and happiness into the lives of everyone who knows him. He is much loved by many people, and a very, very worthy human being.

You may be seeing three types of younger people but, if you get to know some of them a bit better, I think you will see that there are as many types as there are people.



+1. I sure wish I had the ability to express myself in as few words as MichaelB did.

I have to agree. I too am hard wired to save and invest and have always been pretty contented so I didn’t have much desire to splurge. Sometimes I feel I’ve over accumulated and wouldn’t/couldn’t spend much of what I’ve accumulated. I don’t pass judgment on those who are not wired the same way because many of those I know who had the means to save but didn’t had a blast in life - traveling/hobbies/all kinds of fun. On the other hand we spent so much time working (there’s always a trade off) and saving that we missed out on a lot more adventures with friends and family and generally enjoying life a bit more. It’s a regret not many successful people are willing to voice but success usually comes at a price.

 

[harllee]

The good thing is that in the US we are free to choose our own path and for the most part that is good. But where I draw the line is with family members who decide to be free spirits and not work hard and make bad choices and then when they are in their 60s and broke and sick they expect other family members to bail them out financially.

 

[nhcycling]

Different strokes for different folks ... I have 4 siblings, many SIL/BIL’s plus 9 adult nieces and nephews. Most of the 50 and 60 something siblings and in-laws have worked hard and are financially secure, a few not so much. Don’t know how they’re going to support themselves, guess they’ll work til they die? Idk. These family members didn’t get all the inheritance, it was evenly split, maybe they thought they were going to get it all? They’re not getting any handouts from the rest of us. They spent they’re lives working part time, not working, living off mommy and daddy despite being healthy, YOLO attitude.

The 20 y.o. somethings, most have worked hard, good starts in good careers, a few in college with solid majors in demand jobs - software engineering, accounting w/ intent to pass CPA. One nephew is 28, lives at home still, undergrad history, grad library science. Never worked until after grad school, had a part time library job but unemployed now for over a year. Refuses to work unless it’s something that he feels is worthy of his degree, everything is beneath him. Parents complain, say it’s hard for this generation. Ummm, look at your cousins. And the parents also complain that they’re never going to be to able to retire, ummm, should’ve maybe worked more and maybe saved some money.

 

[Major Tom]

But it's not all casual observation. In many cases the examples here are of people that are well known by person who commented.

In some cases, I'd agree with you. However, just because we are close to someone, doesn't necessarily mean that we hold a fair and balanced view of them. Sometimes, we judge the ones we are closest to particularly harshly. Regardless of what we think though, or how we judge them, the folk who don't save or plan for the future usually end up facing some consequences.