Awkward situation with friends

[Scuba]

As was mentioned, Sometimes WE pay, sometimes THEY pay...so no one is taking advantage of the other. "Sucking it up" means you pay ALL the time and the other party just joins and not contributing to anything. I believe a real friend does not treat everything friends do together as a business transaction.

This is exactly the way we handled the checks with our friends before, and none of us ever worried about small differences such as a slightly more expensive dish or one extra appetizer. However, I do have a problem with splitting a check evenly when one couple always orders alcohol and the other couple never does. If we continued to split checks evenly despite this disparity, we would be in a position of subsidizing the other couple’s meals to the tune of hundreds of dollars per year.

For some of you, that isn’t a big deal or your consider it a price of the friendship. For me, it doesn’t feel good and I would never suggest other couples split checks evenly with us if the tables were turned.

 

[RobbieB]

Perhaps it is. The price of friendship. Perhaps the drinkers are there to celebrate and don't drink much otherwise, or perhaps they do all the time. It's just what they do.

It's going to work out the same way if you go each other or split. The drinkers are always running a bigger tab.

So either you refuse to subsidize the drinkers, or end the get togethers. Easy.

 

[Scuba]

93 posts and a lot of angst over 30 bucks worth of drinks.

Times 10-12 times per year and now we’re talking over $300 annually. I’m not willing to play games ordering more expensive food or food to go to “even things up” as some have suggested, nor do I enjoy feeling taken advantage of. I’m very generous until I start to feel taken for granted or purposely taken advantage of. Once that happens, not so much.

For me, the only viable choices are to completely give up the friendship without explanation, which seems extreme, or suggest splitting checks next time we eat out. If suggesting that we will fully cover whatever we order to eat or drink causes a problem, well, I guess the friendship wasn’t that good after all. I agree with what others have said that truly good friends would not expect us to continue paying for half of their alcohol. I’m trying to give these friends the benefit of the doubt that they just didn’t think about it and stuck with past practice.

The best thing to come out of this for me is the realization that we probably need to have a similar discussion with all of our friends. We have regularly just split the bill in half with virtually every couple we go out with regularly unless we ordered much more expensive items, in which case we covered the tip or threw in more to cover the disparity. If the couple that was the inspiration for this post assumed that splitting checks should continue, others may assume the same thing. We are just resuming our social life following our health issues this year, but we were going out with other couples several times per month and every one of the other couples drinks alcohol. Splitting checks evenly with all of our friends when we don’t drink and they do could become quite expensive - thousands of dollars per year. Yikes! No wonder our dining out budget was so high - come to think of it, usually around half of our check was alcohol.

 

[RobbieB]

At company dinners, the alcohol was more than the food -

Ah salesmen!

 

[marko]

This thread suddenly reminded me of something that had never occurred to me.

A very good friend has a huge oceanfront home in Big Sur. He lives off of his father's patent royalties...or something like that.

From time to time he rents out his house on Airbnb and when he does, he then spends a week or so staying with various friends around the country. A time to catch up. He might rent the place for as long as a month and will stay with four different friends.

When he stays with us, we'll go out to dinner to some nice places just about every night for the week he's with us. He will NEVER even offer to pick up the check!!! He may pay for a breakfast out but that's it. His visits set me back a grand every time!

For me, it's a matter of "old time's sake" and just one of his many, many, many idiosyncrasies. We've been friends for over 35 years and have been through marriages, divorces, remarriages, deaths and a thousand other life's passages and challenges. (When I stay with him, yes, I pick up the check then too)

Until this thread it never occurred to me that some people worry about such things when friendships are concerned.

Yes, I know I'm being a sap! Yes, he's a cheap SOB! Yes, after a week I'm glad to see him go! But he's my friend and, in a real pinch we'd do anything for each other...and each of us have over the years.

For me, it's just the cost of our friendship and a price I'm (reluctantly) willing to pay.

Obviously, YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^^ Well, but it still bothers you that he never offers to pay. It would be smoother if he did, would it not?

One of my 2 close friends bought his 2nd home in a coastal town in California (his main home is on the east coast). He has repeatedly invited me to come see him, and even offered his home for me to stay even when he is not there. However, we would never take up an offer to use his home like that. Friendships have limits. Even marriages do.

Anyway, earlier this year, we drove out to stay with him for 2 nights. When we went into town, I offered to pay when we ate out. And we went to Costco to buy ingredients to cook cioppino because I had touted this dish to him. Of course, he loved the dish.

A bit of understanding, courtesy, and social skill will make the friendship stronger. Surely, you can stay friend with an ignoramus, but I would much prefer not having this subject coming up. I went back 50 years with this friend.

 

[Time2]

It's the concept. Always separate checks with our friends and then one can truly just concentrate on good food and conversation.

Or you can stay home and eat, then Venmo your friends $30 every two weeks!
Obviously I'm in the separate check group.
I spent 37 years living frugally, I find it hard to spend money that I don't need to or want to.


As the highly knowledgeable philosopher, pb4uski once said,


Living Below Your Means (LBYM) is a very powerful tool whether you practice it during accumulation or during retirement....

Unfortunately, this is a deep dark secret to much of the populace.

 

[marko]

^^^^ Well, but it still bothers you that he never offers to pay. It would be smoother if he did, would it not?
.

I can't say it "bothers me" but yes it would be nice if he'd pick up a tab once in a while, but that’s just not the way he is. He's quite quirky in his worldview and I find his company worth the price of admission.

The point is that I really don't care all that much about who pays. This thread made me aware that for some people it's a really big deal.

 

[NW-Bound]

I can't say it "bothers me" but yes it would be nice if he'd pick up a tab once in a while, but that’s just not the way he is. He's quite quirky and I find his company worth the price of admission.

OK, I believe you because I know a guy who never offers to pay for anything. He is a very good guy and is willing to help people a lot. I know this for a fact.

However, his eccentricity, I do not find so endearing, put it that way. And his lack of social skills does not make it easy to have a fun conversation. I don't get much out of his company.

Obviously, your friend is not like the guy I know. I bet you would not pay for all other acquaintances like you do with this friend, so he must be fun to be around, and has other redeeming qualities.

 

[Teacher Terry]

If I am a guest in someone’s home I pay to take them out for dinner. Marko your friend is very inconsiderate.

 

[FIYes]

Yet another vote for separate checks here. Scuba, I wouldn’t assume your friends are deliberately taking advantage. I would assume that they are just oblivious. Frankly, my DH would be oblivious in this situation…on either side, over or under paying. Separate checks will solve the issue.

Don’t let the current status quo continue or you will end up resenting your friends. Clearly these are people you enjoy spending time with since you get together 10-12 times a year.

 

[marko]

The point is that I really don't care all that much about who pays. This thread made me aware that for some people it's a really big deal.

Following up: While I don’t care who pays, I guess this thread has made me aware that some people are indeed quite sensitive to having to pay for half of my prime rib when they only have a plate of pasta and may not be saying anything.

I'll have to be more alert, (or find more similarly inclined co-diners). Actually, we never split a check but just take turns on grabbing the full amount.

 

[latexman]

I guess getting separate checks started for me when I was dirt poor and financing my college education. Mom and Dad made my car and insurance payments, I had a $1,000/year Alcoa scholarship, and I earned and paid for everything else. As I met friends and we'd go out for dinner occaisonally, we always asked for separate checks. That way you didn't have to keep score. It made it easy. Now, when we go out with friends, we ask for separate checks automatically. I don't recall any restaurant ever turning us down.

 

[wompo]

I guess I’ve never run into this problem. If out with friends everything is on one check, but everyone pays for what they ordered. I can’t remember ever just splitting the check. Only problem has been people who don’t tip very well

 

[tmm99]

I’m very generous until I start to feel taken for granted or purposely taken advantage of. Once that happens, not so much.

I feel exactly the same way. As soon as I feel I'm being taken advantage of or I feel I'm being taken for granted, I back off. I have even cut off friendships/relationships in the past because of it. And I'm not talking about splitting restaurant bills. If it was a bill, I would just put the correct amount of cash in the pot (whatever we ate plus tax and tip) and called it good. (I wouldn't have even explained anything - they should know better.) Or I might just declare that I would like a separate check. I would only explain if they wanted to know why and I wouldn't be nice about it either. The thing is, I wouldn't want to keep that kind of friendship. I have no respect for the kind of people who would keep on splitting the bill 50/50, thinking that was okay. Just not thinking about it one time is okay, but not routinely.

 

[Sunset]

I can't say it "bothers me" but yes it would be nice if he'd pick up a tab once in a while, but that’s just not the way he is. He's quite quirky in his worldview and I find his company worth the price of admission.

The point is that I really don't care all that much about who pays. This thread made me aware that for some people it's a really big deal.

Obviously, your friend is not willing to pay hardly anything for your friendship. In reality, he needs to be paid to be your friend. He makes $x from renting out his home while staying at your place, and gets free meals.

Can I be your friend ??

I have a cheap friend, he was like that as a child. Seemed to me partly driven by a sense to exert power. "Can you lend me some bucks, when we are at the store and he knew we were going" Then he "forgets to repay". REPEATEDLY.

We are still friends, and chat, but I don't lend him money or tools (same issue with tools, will never return them, even a ladder which was pretty hard to ignore).

 

[38Chevy454]

I guess I need to go out to these highfalutin places that won't do separate checks. Every place DW and I go to with friends do separate checks, usually the waiter will ask when they get to the table. If we are treating then I speak up and say one check and give to me. Or vice-versa with the friends if they are treating us. Otherwise never had an issue with separate checks. Some restaurants even split the appetizers, but usually I will say put the appetizer on my bill if I am the one ordering it.

 

[marko]

Obviously, your friend is not willing to pay hardly anything for your friendship. In reality, he needs to be paid to be your friend. He makes $x from renting out his home while staying at your place, and gets free meals.

Can I be your friend ??
.

Actually, its a lot simpler than that. He's quite wealthy and neither he--nor I -- think that $200 or $300 on either side of the ledger is a big deal.

If you went to a bar with a buddy and each got a beer and your buddy paid the $13, would you insist on giving him $6.50? Likely not. It's a bit like that but just on a higher level.

Again, this thread was a bit of an eye opener for me that for many people, a few bucks within a friendship is an issue...." but I only had one coke!"

For his part, whenever I'm in California I have an $6MM home I can stay in.

 

[tmm99]

To me, who pays isn't the issue. Only the issues arise when I feel I'm being taken advantage of.

I'm fairly generous with friends. But I've noticed that some of my friends almost never reciprocate and that is a problem in my book. Other times me being taken advantage of was obvious. I used to help catsit my friend's cat for free and then she slipped and said she didn't want to ask another friend (whom she was closer to) because she would charge for it and I didn't. That wasn't the only issue I saw, but we parted ways shortly after that.

Another time, we were in a fairly big group (separate checks) and I said I was ordering this and that (can't remember what they were) to share with everyone and one guy asked me to order another dish (he liked) and I said, "Get your own food yourself!" or something like that.

I have a few more of those stories but you get the picture...

 

[Dtail]

Actually, its a lot simpler than that. He's quite wealthy and neither he--nor I -- think that $200 or $300 on either side of the ledger is a big deal.

If you went to a bar with a buddy and each got a beer and your buddy paid the $13, would you insist on giving him $6.50? Likely not. It's a bit like that but just on a higher level.

Again, this thread was a bit of an eye opener for me that for many people, a few bucks within a friendship is an issue...." but I only had one coke!"

For his part, whenever I'm in California I have an $6MM home I can stay in.

Again it's not just the money. Don't you think that their friends are fully aware that their part of the bill is larger all the time? Guess what, they do realize it.
For your beer example, I am fine but would not pick up the beer tab every single time even for the 6.50.

 

[Scuba]

I appreciate everyone’s comments. Separate checks for us from now on, and anyone who isn’t comfortable with it can move on. We have a lot of friends, and while we enjoy some more than others, we can let them go if they feel entitled to our money. I expect most if not all of our friends will happily get separate checks rather than splitting from now on.

 

[Time2]

I appreciate everyone’s comments. Separate checks for us from now on, and anyone who isn’t comfortable with it can move on. We have a lot of friends, and while we enjoy some more than others, we can let them go if they feel entitled to our money. I expect most if not all of our friends will happily get separate checks rather than splitting from now on.

Pay attention to your friends drinking habits, see if they drink less when they aren't drinking at half price!

 

[latexman]

^^^^^
+10

 

[CRLLS]

If I am a guest in someone’s home I pay to take them out for dinner. Marko your friend is very inconsiderate.

That's the way I was raised by my folks. Not that it ever came up specifically. It was imprinted in my DNA somehow. You are the guest; you do not take advantage of the host. You are polite. You respect their home and generosity, And make sure that your appreciation is known. Dinner is one of many ways to show your gratitude. As a host do the opposite. Make sure the guest is welcomed.

Who pays at a dinner out, is a touchy subject for many. For some of my friends and family, it is a game as who picks up the check. Everyone wants to pay the bill. Maybe it is some kind of macho thing. My wallet is bigger than yours. Who knows? Some make it clear to the server on their first visit to the table who is paying. Sometimes the bill is simply left at the end of the table, and it is a rush to grab it. Sometimes they make an excuse to go to the bathroom, only to take a side trip to the server to pay the bill, skipping the bill presented at the table. It all evens out over time. But if it was consistently unbalanced in order value, or one person always is paying, then I think I would have an issue.

 

[slowsaver]

You could order an extra entree to-go. Make sure it's about the same cost as the bar bill.