Abandoning EVs

[Chuckanut]

FWIW, I think EVs will also need to see a increase in the number of independent repair shops.

Here's a YouTube video from a guy who says he's started a Tesla repair shop.

Today we take a look into an independent 3rd party Tesla repair facility named the electrified garage

 

[dixonge]

That would be nice. Buc-ee's will have to up their game a little to get to 100. We just went to the Buc-ee's in Robertsdale, Al a few days ago. They have a Tesla Supercharger area - with about 15 stalls.

There are 20 superchargers at the Buccee's next to the Texas Motor Speedway north of Fort Worth.

 

[audreyh1]

Buc-ee’s often have 16 or 20 chargers. They typically use pre-fab chargers which come in sets of 4 mounted on a long concrete base. Very fast to install. I’ve seen a setup installed in less than 10 days.

However some are very large. There’s 24 at the one in New Braunfels TX, and 48 at the new one in Temple TX!

 

[Winemaker]

The underground mining industry has used battery transportation/utility use for years, batteries sucked. Significant maintenance, long charging times, inefficiencies, were big problems but satisfied the need for a non combustible, non flammable, permissible power source for transportation and utility use. We lived with it, because there was no alternative.

Currently, the consumer still has choices, unlike the underground mining industry. Until EVs make economic sense, or ICEs are banned, ICEs will rule.

 

[Chuckanut]

The local supermarket near me is near the path of new higher capacity electric lines being put in by the utility company. So they are getting a bank of 12 Tesla super chargers installed on their property near the new electric lines. Sounds like somebody jumped on an opportunity to get a twofer.

We have a lot of EV owners in my area but all the new homes being build are apartments and condos, most without a private charging area or just a few chargers for dozens if not hundred of vehicles. It will be interesting to see how busy the SuperChargers are.

 

[thod]

Many wars have been fought over access to resources. Land, Seas, Oil/coal, water, right-of-way, etc.

What would a war over/for electricity look like? If you think about it, you would still just be fighting over something that can create electricity, not the electricity itself.

So given that, I think we are fooling ourselves to think we are improving our situation by trying to eliminate the ICE engine.

 

[dixonge]

Many wars have been fought over access to resources. Land, Seas, Oil/coal, water, right-of-way, etc.

What would a war over/for electricity look like? If you think about it, you would still just be fighting over something that can create electricity, not the electricity itself.

So given that, I think we are fooling ourselves to think we are improving our situation by trying to eliminate the ICE engine.

Even without legislation or mandates I think the EV is destined to take over the majority of transportation. It will eventually require more nuclear power generation and better grid maintenance. Small-scale solar (think homes and retail parking lots) will help. All of this will reduce the risk of resource wars.

One of the main improvements is in the reduction of particulate and noise pollution.

 

[Andre1969]

45 minutes total time per year is too much?

I can sort of understand the feeling. I'm sure there's a more poetic way of putting it, but I equate it to, when you remove the mountains from your life, there's the tendency to turn the molehills into new mountains.

While I don't exactly dread the experience, I don't really like going to the gas station. Back when I drove a lot more, and often went several times per week, it was just a part of life, and I didn't even notice it. And then, the final year before Covid, I was probably down to about one fillup per week for the car, and maybe once every few months for the truck, it was still a regular enough occurrence that I just didn't notice it.

Now though, I often go a month or more without having to fill up. So the less routine it becomes, the more of an annoyance it feels like, I guess. However, the gas station that I prefer to go to, while it's 3.7 miles from the house, is on the way to other locations, like the grocery store and such. So, I'll always try to combine filling up with other errands. Now, if I was in a more rural area, where the gas station was an out-of-the-way trip, I might be a bit more annoyed.

 

[JoeWras]

At least one business has decided that having chargers available in their parking lot was a negative and removed them. It will be interesting to see if this picks up steam.

Shoppers celebrate after H-E-B removes Tesla chargers from Montrose store

Probably not. Sounded like a poor design for the parking spaces.

We have a Tesla charge farm near a Target store. They put it along the borders. It is fine, no big deal.

No city or tower here, so I'm not sure where that comes from. But either way, there are many millions in this country and around the world for whom an EV is a good choice. And many millions not. Choices are good.

I didn't say EVs are bad or choice is bad. I was considering the current difficulty of use in rural areas. I should have said: "Regulators are typically from cities and need to consider rural applications." I wasn't speaking of anyone here in an ivory tower, but rather regulators and political influencers. I shouldn't have used that stupid phrase. I apologize.

The rural problem isn't much different than the problem of a 100 years ago when the government had to support rural electrification efforts. I know the IRA law has some language about this, but it is unclear to me if it will be effectively implemented. We'll see.

 

[sparky08]

What's keeping us from moving to EV is my DW really likes the size of her SUV (Hyundai Palisade). Not only for safety, but also hauling stuff (we're two hours away from the nearest decent sized town) and people (3rd row seating).

I think there are a few on the horizon, but might be out of our budget.

A plug in hybrid might be out next vehicle.

 

[DallasGuy]

I can understand the slowdown in EV sales. I know two early adopters who rationalized all the negative aspects of EVs while they owned them, but have since replaced them with ICE vehicles. And the zero emissions statements are just laughable, like they believe emissions aren't produced to make electricity in this country.

I bought a Chevy Bolt EUV a year ago. I'll never go back to an ICE vehicle....and the Bold EUV is now considered "old battery technology" to some people but that doesn't matter to me at all. That sort of goes against your anecdotal evidence of two people abandoning EV's...implying that it's a trend.

In my opinion, sales of EV's would increase alot if they were more affordable. If there were more options in the $25k-35k range, I think they'd sell much faster. But car makers see an opportunity to throw every bell and whistle on EV's and charge much more than that. It's now hurting their sales. There are "stipped down" versions of ICE vehicles so why not the same for EV's?

Having said that, until we get more reliable chargers and faster charging, EV's will not be for everyone. That is obvious.

 

[RetMD21]

The Hummer EV sure didn't catch on- 50 sold in Q2 . IDK if a lot of people will want the Cybertruck but it wont have to sell a lot to beat the competition https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/0...mbers-figures-results-second-quarter-2023-q2/

 

[Aerides]

The Hummer EV sure didn't catch on- 50 sold in Q2 . IDK if a lot of people will want the Cybertruck but it wont have to sell a lot to beat the competition https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/0...mbers-figures-results-second-quarter-2023-q2/

That link shows that the reason for lack of sales was "as a result of minuscule production volumes" and that they are ramping up, and have 90,000 reservations for their two hummer models.

So, Demand far outpacing Supply, not a lack of catching on.

 

[athena53]

I found an article this morning on Hertz pulling back on EVs and couldn't find that one but here's another:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/her...s pumping the brakes,fleet by about one-third.

The one I read earlier noted that many renters have never driven one, have no idea where to charge one, etc. They tell about a woman and her daughter who ran the battery down to zero and then had to crawl out the back of the car to get out because the electric door locks wouldn't work. (There was a door release inside the car but since every rental car I've had the last few years is missing the Owners Manual they had no way of knowing.) As a renter I'd turn one down because I know nothing about the technology- not like switching from my daily Honda Civic to a Nissan, both with ICEs.

Right now for me it would be a second car. I could use it as a daily in-town vehicle but for road trips to visit family I wouldn't want to be bothered by logistics of when and where to charge it.

 

[Aerides]

I found an article this morning on Hertz pulling back on EVs and couldn't find that one but here's another:
<snip>
The one I read earlier noted that many renters have never driven one, have no idea where to charge one, etc.

Having rented with Hertz, I was given a Tesla as an upgrade (any non EV was going to be a wait). I had no idea how to operate it, and received zero instruction (like...how to adjust the mirrors, how it locks when you walk away, how you don't turn it off, etc.). But I knew my hotel would have a charger, and didn't want to wait at the airport, so I muddled along.

So I'm not surprised. If they provided a short tip sheet or a link to maps with chargers, it would be easily resolved. They didn't. This is a case of bad implementation by Hertz, IMO.

 

[audreyh1]

I rented a Tesla Model Y from Hertz, reserved ahead of time, and they sent me several Tesla orientation videos beforehand that were quite good. A few differences between the Model Y and X that I had to brush up on so it was helpful even to me, but looked very good for a newbie. Overall I thought Hertz did a great job - very smooth. We enjoyed the experience even though our Tesla is much nicer, ha ha.

We read recently that Hertz was offering some other EVs besides Tesla and this confused people the most, like couldn’t charge at a Tesla supercharger.

With no preparation and suddenly being given an EV I imagine most folks would have a hard time. You really need some basic orientation. If you have no clue how to charge the thing - that’s pretty bad.

 

[bloom2708]

EV should be a 2nd or 3rd vehicle for close proximity driving. The gubberment should not pick winners and losers.

The cost should be lower for EV. A $70k, $80k, and up EV makes no sense for the middle class Americans. The ultra rich can always do whatever they want.

Hybrids and plug in hybrids make sense right now. The only thing I can predict is oil and oil products are not going anwywhere in the next 10 years and likely far beyond that.

 

[Oilcan]

EV should be a 2nd or 3rd vehicle for close proximity driving. The gubberment should not pick winners and losers.

The cost should be lower for EV. A $70k, $80k, and up EV makes no sense for the middle class Americans. The ultra rich can always do whatever they want.

Hybrids and plug in hybrids make sense right now. The only thing I can predict is oil and oil products are not going anwywhere in the next 10 years and likely far beyond that.

+1

 

[athena53]

If they provided a short tip sheet or a link to maps with chargers, it would be easily resolved. They didn't. This is a case of bad implementation by Hertz, IMO.

I'd agree with that- the two women in the story were also given no other options- that's all they had available. I might accept an EV with that kind of info but otherwise I'd be scared witless of causing an accident and having to fight them on liability issues. (I do have very high liability insurance limits so I guess my insurer would fight them but I still don't need that.)

 

[DallasGuy]

EV should be a 2nd or 3rd vehicle for close proximity driving. The gubberment should not pick winners and losers.

The cost should be lower for EV. A $70k, $80k, and up EV makes no sense for the middle class Americans. The ultra rich can always do whatever they want.

Hybrids and plug in hybrids make sense right now. The only thing I can predict is oil and oil products are not going anwywhere in the next 10 years and likely far beyond that.

I disagree that it should be the 2nd or 3rd vehicle...for some people that might work better, but not everyone needs more than one vehicle. I use mine as my only vehicle. Works for me and others as well.

 

[aja8888]

I disagree that it should be the 2nd or 3rd vehicle. I use mine as my only vehicle. Works for me and others as well.

Same here and I didn't pay through the nose to buy it.

When I get done with it, my middle aged daughter wants it. Just turned 3,600 miles in 2.5 months of ownership.

 

[freedomatlast]

Here's what's going on in China with abandoned EV's.....

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/

 

[MichaelB]

I rented a Tesla Model Y from Hertz, reserved ahead of time, and they sent me several Tesla orientation videos beforehand that were quite good. A few differences between the Model Y and X that I had to brush up on so it was helpful even to me, but looked very good for a newbie. Overall I thought Hertz did a great job - very smooth. We enjoyed the experience even though our Tesla is much nicer, ha ha.

We read recently that Hertz was offering some other EVs besides Tesla and this confused people the most, like couldn’t charge at a Tesla supercharger.

With no preparation and suddenly being given an EV I imagine most folks would have a hard time. You really need some basic orientation. If you have no clue how to charge the thing - that’s pretty bad.

I rented a Hertz Tesla in June. They also sent me an email with some instructional videos, which I found very helpful. I also got some good tips here.

I think anyone renting a Tesla needs to do a little homework, and if they’re not willing to put in a little effort before picking up the car, they should rent something else.

 

[braumeister]

I think this is what we're all waiting for:

COMING THIS WAY: THE ELECTRIC BENTLEY

 

[audreyh1]

I disagree that it should be the 2nd or 3rd vehicle...for some people that might work better, but not everyone needs more than one vehicle. I use mine as my only vehicle. Works for me and others as well.

We are very happy with one vehicle. I realized very few retired couples have only one vehicle but it works for us. Distance is not a problem either.