At what point does focusing on your finances/ER become counter-productive?

[MasterBlaster]

In some circles RPG's are armor-piercing anti-tank weapons

 

[kcowan]

I do a monthly tally of how we are doing in our long term pinancial plan. Once a quarter, I reassess our holdings to see whether any action needs to be taken. Every day, my Yahoo home page tells me what is happening with our 25 individual stock holdings. When travelling, I leave it alone.

 

[queeneev]

"Hello my name is queeneev and I am an obsessor." About retirement. I check my budget spreadsheet at least 4 times a week, and I log in to my brokerage account at least 4 times a day. When I travel or don't have access to the computer, I have to go through a certain amount of temporary withdrawal. My budget spreadsheet, which was born the day I started my first post-college job and has become my best friend , was created with one purpose - to clue me in to when i could quit. Oh, and I log in here to sooth my soul and remind myself, "soon enough my dear, soon enough".

 

[unclemick]

I seem to go in cycles.
Does anyone else struggle with this?

Yes. But you don't have to take it seriously. Auto deduct/invest during the accumulation phase and - for me balanced index aka lifecycle now Target Retirement funds in retirement(14th yr).

For the hormones a few 'legend in my own mind' individual stocks. Overwatched all the time 1966 till this afternoon. Probably should go mow the lawn, kayak or something.

I watch, hurry up and do nothing - mostly.

heh heh heh - .

 

[arandomwalk07]

I've been saving for quite a few years, and I still would glance at the spreadsheet perhaps once a day. I know it is slightly obsessive, but it is almost a tangible way for me to reach out and touch FIRE - which gives me a boost to get through days that could be otherwise tough.

It's the new way to relax - work getting you down, reach out and touch retirement

 

[ESRBob]

Maybe we should start a 12-step program here for financial obsessives?

I think many of us go through cycles where we 'focus on financial matters rather more keenly than the average person'. I think by automating things -- getting all the finances to flow into one online account so you can easily get a total, and having a few simple spreadsheets to tell you where you stand vis a vis your goal can help. Using a diversified, low-fee buy-and-hold index strategy with periodic rebalancing also helps, as it keeps you from having to make investment decisions all the time, or even research securities.

If you have these things in place, you'll be able to pretty much distill all the info into a few numbers within a few minutes each day. A little sensitivity analysis, tweak the numbers, see them change -- another minute or two. Any more time than 4 minutes a day and all you'll do is get really really bored.

Best cure for obsession I know.

 

[Milton]

I'm on the internet, often at this site, all day and night... usually until 3 in the morning.

I suspect that you would just love role-playing games.

 

[megacorp-firee]

As part of FIRE as a journey and not a destination, I think that we all go into different phases or steps.
One of the steps is to get comfortable with you ability to FIRE.
a) doing an inventory of what you have
b) doing an assessment of what you need
c) mapping the two
d) making any corrections
This is the step that people seem to go over and over again (obsess upon).
Until you are comfortable, you will run and re-run the numbers and think that you are not ready.

We (on this board) seem to thirst for that additional grain of knowledge. That's ok ... if you don't let it paralyze you into inaction. Continue to read on, but if you have a good plan in place, then go ahead and work your plan.

IMO you plan for the general case and handle all else as exceptions. Depending upon the real possibilities of the exceptions happening, you either put additional (contingency) plans in place or you just 'chalk it up' to another bridge to cross if/when you get there.

 

[ESRBob]

Good point -- there are risks and unknowable unknowns in the future. No amount of running and re-running the numbers is going to change that. Once you have a good plan in place, you're better off developing emotional resilience, risk-tolerance, Plan B or Plan Cs, and a semi-retirement friendly skill that can earn a bit of $ if times get tough etc etc than spending another night running financials and spreadsheets.

(For the semi-retirement-friendly skill, how about becoming a financial planner and obsessing over other people's retirement finances for a fee? ;-) I believe if you get paid for it, then obsession is known as 'conscientiousness' and 'quality workmanship'.

 

[megacorp-firee]

and a semi-retirement friendly skill that can earn a bit of $ if times get tough etc etc

Like practicing saying ... apple pie with that order sir ...or welcome to WalMart ...

 

[kumquat]

As part of FIRE as a journey and not a destination, I think that we all go into different phases or steps.
One of the steps is to get comfortable with you ability to FIRE.
a) doing an inventory of what you have
b) doing an assessment of what you need
c) mapping the two
d) making any corrections

My problem is that I have about 35% of NW in a single stock. I obsess over it it, the rest of my index funds, bonds etc.don't matter. The really stupid part is that if I just sold it all and bought indexes FIRECALC puts my SWR at ~3.5%. No worrys. Yet I want the max from this one, check prices several times daily, ignore all other assets. Is there a 12 step program to sell it?

 

[Letj]

Thefed, you've described me exactly. I think that most people who are focused on financial independence and security (like us) would not rest until we've achieved our goal and maybe not even then. I hope I can relax a little better when that occurs. I am always amazed when I see people spending as if there's no tomorrow and seeming to be totally unconcerned about the future. I don't recall any period in my life where I was not obsessed and or anxious about money. This has propelled me to lay down a good plan for FIRE.

 

[Olav23]

My problem is that I have about 35% of NW in a single stock. I obsess over it it, the rest of my index funds, bonds etc.don't matter. The really stupid part is that if I just sold it all and bought indexes FIRECALC puts my SWR at ~3.5%. No worrys. Yet I want the max from this one, check prices several times daily, ignore all other assets. Is there a 12 step program to sell it?

You might want to consider a long-term put option (as an insurance premium) if you are that nervous about it! I certainly would be.

 

[megacorp-firee]

My problem is that I have about 35% of NW in a single stock. I obsess over it it, the rest of my index funds, bonds etc.don't matter. The really stupid part is that if I just sold it all and bought indexes FIRECALC puts my SWR at ~3.5%. No worrys. Yet I want the max from this one, check prices several times daily, ignore all other assets. Is there a 12 step program to sell it?

Geez kumquat, all this time, I thought you were one of the kool-aid drinking, buy and hold, indexers...

IMO you plan for the general case and handle all else as exceptions. Depending upon the real possibilities of the exceptions happening, you either put additional (contingency) plans in place or you just 'chalk it up' to another bridge to cross if/when you get there.

A few months ago, I sold all of my last individual stocks (about 15% of my portfolio) and put it in DVY to keep my AA at 60/40 and provide a little income from dividends.

My 'general case' plan is to buy and hold index mutual funds, hold some preferreds for additional income and adjust allocations when appropriate.

If I get a hormone rush, I will take 5-10% out and either go to vegas and put it on black, or play the market with it.
I have found religion, so I don't think that is going to happen. I will be too busy figuring out what I am going to do all day.
You may want to consider the same. You are at critical mass, why mess around?

 

[aenlighten]

Where time really begins

Tracking a portfolio doesn't take much time. Considering rebalancing not much more. Where the time really begins is when you have an idea to check out. Then it can take some serious time to analyze and investigate. Has the question been asked before? What are its implications on my planning? Should I make any changes? What other questions should I be asking? This is the fun part. It gives one something to think about.

 

[megacorp-firee]

Tracking a portfolio doesn't take much time. Considering re balancing not much more. Where the time really begins is when you have an idea to check out. Then it can take some serious time to analyze and investigate. Has the question been asked before? What are its implications on my planning? Should I make any changes? What other questions should I be asking? This is the fun part. It gives one something to think about.

AN 'ah ha' moment ... there are those of you out there that think that all of this analysis stuff is fun, ... for those, it is not obsession, but a hobby, ... have at it.

For those of us who are trying to fix it and leave it alone (as much as we can), we would term this type of activity as obsessive.

My comments are aimed at those who do not think this is a hobby and have [-]better [/-]other things to do with their time. But we are grateful to those who [-]obsess [/-]do this, since we can glean some learning from them (while being lazy and not having to do it ourselves
(... the real reason).

 

[audreyh1]

My problem is that I have about 35% of NW in a single stock. I obsess over it it, the rest of my index funds, bonds etc.don't matter. The really stupid part is that if I just sold it all and bought indexes FIRECALC puts my SWR at ~3.5%. No worrys. Yet I want the max from this one, check prices several times daily, ignore all other assets. Is there a 12 step program to sell it?

Set up a plan to divest most of it over the next several years. Set up some price targets or do it by percentage each year or whatever.

Waiting for the absolute max (all or nothing) will drive you nuts and is a huge risk to your financial independence. Better to take some off the table each time it reaches a new 52 week high.

Audrey

 

[TargaDave]

While it's great to be inspired by and learn from the devoted LBYMer's here, I am equally amazed at the obsessive posters who suffer as bad as Thefed, especially the younger ones. Wouldn't you rather take the obsessing time spent on this site or starring at financials and use it instead to enjoy your current life? Start a new hobby, get better at the ones you have. Seems like it would be smart to evolve activities you are as passionate about as achieving FIRE. They don't have to delay FIRE. Fate might not allow you to be around to enjoy FIRE anyway.

 

[Moemg]

My problem is that I have about 35% of NW in a single stock. I obsess over it it, the rest of my index funds, bonds etc.don't matter. The really stupid part is that if I just sold it all and bought indexes FIRECALC puts my SWR at ~3.5%. No worrys. Yet I want the max from this one, check prices several times daily, ignore all other assets. Is there a 12 step program to sell it?

I had the same problem. I had 25% of my networth in Internantional Paper.I had it since it was Federal Paperboard and it just grew and grew .I also worried about it daily .I finally sold it and put it all in mutual funds and paid cash for my house .A hard decision but I'm glad I did it.

 

[thefed]

While it's great to be inspired by and learn from the devoted LBYMer's here, I am equally amazed at the obsessive posters who suffer as bad as Thefed, especially the younger ones. Wouldn't you rather take the obsessing time spent on this site or starring at financials and use it instead to enjoy your current life? Start a new hobby, get better at the ones you have. Seems like it would be smart to evolve activities you are as passionate about as achieving FIRE. They don't have to delay FIRE. Fate might not allow you to be around to enjoy FIRE anyway.

I've been trting to focus more on my family and hobbies this last week...unfortunately, I think my hobbies can easily deter my ER date if I don't keep it in check. I have the 'bigger, better, and now' syndrome when it comes to these kinds of things. It started with my stereo system as a teenager, then the motor in my Camaro, then my modified 4-wheeler, then my car stereo system, etc etc


I've been focusing my energy the last few weeks on 1) my son 2) working on my relationship with fiance 3) knife collecting 4) Researching remote control cars as a hobby for [-]me[/-] my son (this can get very expensive...especially if you build a RC car that goes 60+ mph like [-]i want[/-] he wants) 5)Playing with fireworks...am I becoming a pyro? Very possible 6) Just a LITTLE daydreaming about not having to work...just collect checks in the mailbox

So far, its going pretty well. I think part of the reason I'm lacking the 'stress' of worrying about ET is I just landed part 1 of a 3-part job I bid on worth about $50k. Whatever works though, eh?

 

[Darryl]

Baby steps. Glad to hear you're on the road, sounds like you didn't have to shell out for the heavy bag or the bike flag. Good Job.

I just had a couple cool days hanging out with my wife, kids and 84 year old grandma. Also had a bunch of family at her place for the 4th, we had a great time.
I did get a demerit from grandma while watching the fireworks around her lake a homeowner on the other side let loose with an impressive barrage. She said wow that was great and I said holy crap that guy just lit two thousand dollars on fire. :?

 

[Spanky]

I do admit that I am focusing too much on investing and monitoring my portfolio. That's one of reason for visiting this site. FIRE says that I have enough to ER, but I am still not sure. As others suggest, develop other interests or get a hobby is a wise move.

 

[pj86]

I give myself a 90% of being obsessive with my finances.

The good part is that I didn't analyzed that exact percentage before.

 

[free4now]

Tracking a portfolio doesn't take much time. Considering rebalancing not much more. Where the time really begins is when you have an idea to check out. Then it can take some serious time to analyze and investigate. Has the question been asked before? What are its implications on my planning? Should I make any changes? What other questions should I be asking?

Great point. I obsessed quite a bit when I was starting out in my retirement planning, making decisions. Satisfying myself that the 4% SWR idea was really valid took a lot of checking out. And convincing myself that indexes really were better than individual stocks took a lot of analysis obsession (and some practical experience). I am glad I obsessed so much on those things because it gave me "sleep at night" power. I no longer feel the need to check my portfolio more often than every few weeks.

I am happy to have been born into a world where indexing beats active trading... I think if active trading had even a slight edge then I would probably waste untold hours chasing that edge just because I'm that kinda guy.

 

[Meadbh]

I guess most of us who are determined to RE want to be quite sure that the numbers work for us. Clearly we are a group who doesn't just want to leave it to others, like pension funds or advisors. Finance is a complex matter and there's always more to learn. We are almost all highly informed consumers and it's easy to tip into obsessiveness when we think about another quirk, such as "but what about the tax consequences of......?" or "should RE funds be 30% dividend income or 27%?".

I'm as guilty as the next person. When retirement seemed far, far away, I was content to review the monthly statements and review the financial plan with my advisor every year. Now that RE is a viable possibility I find myself visualizing every detail, financial and otherwise. I read and research a lot, but I refuse to check the markets every day. I do the big NW spreadsheet annually and selected sensitivity analyses when the questions occur to me, e.g. "what if there were a market crash in 2010?"

I think there is a balance between taking responsiblity for your own financial future and letting it become the focus of your life, interfering with family time, etc. As they say, we need to get a life!