Contrast between real life and current economic news

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Yes, I have seen the panhandlers. I am surprised at how many people give them money. I was stuck at a long traffic light recently and starting talking with a panhandler. He had been summoned over by several drivers who all appeared to give him money. I asked how business was and he showed me a wad of cash. It was probably mostly singles but I was still surprised. Perhaps the panhandlers are earning more money than a minimum wage job without having to expend much effort or follow any of the rules of a workplace. They also do not have to worry about those pesky drug tests. BTW, I don't give money to panhandlers but I do donate to the local rescue mission.

+1

I also have talked to panhandlers. They easily seem to be making more than minimum wage. Think about it. If a few cars every 10 minutes gives them a total of $5 that is $30 an hour, And, no taxes are taken out. A few times I have been able to watch for about 30 minutes, and based on the number of cars that give to them I can see that easily happening.
 
Could it be that was the day government checks got deposited in people's bank accounts, SS payments, SSI, SNAP, what have you?

I remember some years ago reading about grocery stores being mobbed by people just getting some money.

One way to check out the above possibility is to come back on another Wednesday to see if the traffic is less.

Technically, my SS check comes out the 2nd Wednesday of each month, as you surmised.
But in reality, it hits my credit union late Friday preceding and is available on Saturday preceding.

But I'm a wealthy retiree, so timing is of no significance as regards groceries, etc...
 
Keep in mind the retail market store layout is slowly changing from being designed for humans to being designed for automated efficiency. Self-checkout is the first step. For robots to fill orders you do not need those items to be on display, they can be in more of a warehouse setting where they they do not have to share space with human shoppers. The issue becomes what percentage of a stores sales starts coming from curbside pickup.

For produce, one sees more produce being introduced with scannable stickers so one does not need to key in the name. That is just the start. AI technology exists for facial recognition; it can also exist for someone to just hold up a piece of produce and let the scanner figure out what it is.

I do not rule out, with enough sensors, the possibility of going to a store, filling up a cart, pushing the cart through a set of scanners and your order total being calculated (and even, based on your cart/phone settings, your account automatically charged. Technology is one of the few areas where cost has consistently fallen, and labor costs are going the other way... something like this might be closer that one thinks.



Amazon Go is already doing this. We went to a store in Seattle 3 years ago. No errors in the checkout. 100% automated except one person manning the counter.
 
When I worked for ARCO in 1982 in Los Angeles, panhandlers were all over the downtown. We would go out for lunch and would be hounded by them.. Nothing new here.

This morning, at out daily ROMEO Club meet at Burger King, the manager said the store will not be open this weekend so we have to go somewhere else. He could not staff the weekend shifts. Looks like Whataburger is in the cards for the morning get together!:)

This is not the boondocks, this is the north side of Houston.
 
Could it be that was the day government checks got deposited in people's bank accounts, SS payments, SSI, SNAP, what have you?

I remember some years ago reading about grocery stores being mobbed by people just getting some money.

One way to check out the above possibility is to come back on another Wednesday to see if the traffic is less.

Technically, my SS check comes out the 2nd Wednesday of each month, as you surmised.
But in reality, it hits my credit union late Friday preceding and is available on Saturday preceding.

But I'm a wealthy retiree, so timing is of no significance as regards groceries, etc...


I never bothered to look until now. My wife's SS payment unfailingly gets deposited in our checking account on the 2nd Wed of each month.

I also found out that depending on the recipient's birthdate, it's either the 2nd, or 3rd, or last Wednesday of the month.

So, it might just be that Wednesday is the day people go shopping because they get money. I assume that the money is deposited by the computer right at 12:01AM on Wednesday.
 
Yep - and the remaining workers, if they have any qualifications at all, are refusing to work for bad. Low pay, horrible customers, worse managers, constantly changing work hours, hours limited so as to not pay benefits - the list goes on and on. We have become accustomed to being served by people who are simply finding better opportunities and that is reflected in our experience as customers.

I think for many older people (I am 68) they do not realize how awful working conditions are in service jobs and even in the lower level office jobs.

My daughter works for a restaurant chain, with most of her income from tips. For months she kept complaining her paycheck was wrong. She borrowed from us, got her landlord to extend her rent payment, etc. Finally after months of this, they have really looked into and she gets paid thousands in back pay. Good she got the money but it was so hard when no one was doing anything. She had us so that helped her but not everyone has this.

When I had a part time job in high school and college I had a set number of hours that I worked each week and a set schedule with one day of the way varying a bit.

For people in the service jobs now it isn't that way. Knowing how many hours you will get can vary from week to week. Even worse, there is no consistency to the schedule. That makes it hard to get a second job. One of my kids worked over 30 years in a row due to being scheduled back to back shifts (on different days but functionally back to back) and being short handed so needing to work extra.

And, then the cost of rent and the requirement usually to earn 3 times the cost of rent is just insane. Yes, yes, you can get a roommate. My daughter a few years ago rented an apartment and a couple of months later her roommate vanished and show she was responsible for the full thing. And, even if you find a new roommate, they can be flaky.

I just think that things are materially far harder for people now than it used to be.

And, no, there are not enough people to do everything, particularly with us Boomers retiring. Some things can be automated (which is fine with me) but not everything.

And, there just seems to an unwillingness among business to pay employees a reasonable amount and to give them somewhat sane working conditions with consistent hours and schedule.

Self-checkout is a bottle-neck customers seem to rail against. Retail is just going that way for better or for worse.

I read a tweet the other day where the author assumed almost everyone hated self checkout. He was surprised that many replies like it. So he did some research and linked to an article. The main takeaway from the article was that although self-checkout has lots of negatives for stores (theft goes up, people to oversee self checkout have to paid more than cashiers, self checkout is slow), the bottom line was that customers basically do want the self checkout. So stores have to offer it because customers want it.

I am ambivalent about it. Theoretically I would rather self checkout than wait in a long line for a cashier. The problem is that every store has a different process of self checkout so every time I do it I feel I am having to learn a new task and I am slow since I don't do it often. And, it is easy to mess up and then have it all take way longer. The bottom line to me is that it needs to be easier to do.

Entry level jobs were never intended to pay the rent. They are there to get experience and then move up or move on.

This is completely unrealistic. If I am someone needing an entry level job I may nonetheless still need to pay my rent. If I can't pay my rent from my job then I can't move up or move on. And, to be honest, even many jobs that are not entry level do not pay enough money to pay the rent even when working full time. That may have been true in the past, but not now.

Yep, moving is a good solution for some. Surprised more aren’t doing it.

We are experiencing one of the downsides of extremely low unemployment rates (currently around 3.5%). Employers are having trouble hiring enough competent staff. With a low unemployment rate, they have the choice of not hiring people, hiring fewer people or hiring very low-quality people - incompetent, lazy, poor attitude, poor customer service awareness, undependability, lack of basic job skills, not too bright, etc. When the unemployment rate is higher, many of these people would probably not get hired. Overall job performance and quality of service would probably be higher. Many economists suggest that a 5% unemployment is optimal. Most qualified people are able to get jobs and employers are not forced to hire extremely unqualified people. We have to acknowledge that some people are just not employable.

Another factor is changing demographics. As predicted, there are far fewer young people, people who typically seek and accept lower paying entry level jobs. We have been warned for decades that this would happen but somehow, we are surprised that it is actually happening. This demographic change has wide implications from colleges meeting enrollment goals, military recruitment challenges and having enough workers paying into Social Security. One consequence is that it is projected that hundreds of colleges will shut down in the next few years due to decreasing numbers of prospective students.

The complexity of the current job market is impacting childcare. The same labor crunch is making it difficult to hire childcare workers and is driving up the cost of childcare. Is it realistic or ethical to expect an under qualified single parent to take an entry level job when the low salary may not even cover the cost of childcare on top of other necessities such as housing, food and transportation? Employment should not result in a net negative financial situation.

Another factor is reduced immigration. Immigrants, legal and illegal, tend to have strong work ethics and are more likely to take jobs that are low paying, difficult and low prestige. Jobs that many of us look down upon.

Basically, we have to accept the consequences of reality, political decisions, and human nature. Low unemployment sounds good but there are consequences. Increased immigration, preferably legal, would help offset the consequences of changing demographics. The reality is that even illegal immigrants can be beneficial. They are the most likely to take the least desirable jobs, pay taxes and cannot seek Social Security or other government benefits. We need to rationally and responsibly promote laws and policies that will help us address the many complex challenges we face as a society.

I know that these issues are much more complex than my post suggests. Their complexity though suggests that they require more than simple political campaign slogans to solve. They require thoughtful solutions that should seek to avoid unanticipated negative consequences. As responsible citizens and human beings, we owe it to ourselves, our country and our society to strive to make the right decisions.
 
Yes, I have seen the panhandlers. I am surprised at how many people give them money. I was stuck at a long traffic light recently and starting talking with a panhandler. He had been summoned over by several drivers who all appeared to give him money. I asked how business was and he showed me a wad of cash. It was probably mostly singles but I was still surprised. Perhaps the panhandlers are earning more money than a minimum wage job without having to expend much effort or follow any of the rules of a workplace. They also do not have to worry about those pesky drug tests. BTW, I don't give money to panhandlers but I do donate to the local rescue mission.


I have this desire to put on a tuxedo and top hat, and panhandle with a business card, help make me the first panhandler to acquire $1M. Maybe have website detailing my progress and have that on the website on card.

I'm retired with more than enough so won't really venture into the Florida sun, hmm, maybe go to N.Y. city! Maybe a part time job to supplement income, or better yet panhandle in the day, see Broadway shows at night, Blow other peoples dough. I'd be happy to someone run with my fantasy.
 
I have this desire to put on a tuxedo and top hat, and panhandle with a business card, help make me the first panhandler to acquire $1M. Maybe have website detailing my progress and have that on the website on card.

Spray-paint yourself silver and you can tell the cops you're a performance artist when they come to roust you.
 
This is completely unrealistic. If I am someone needing an entry level job I may nonetheless still need to pay my rent. If I can't pay my rent from my job then I can't move up or move on. And, to be honest, even many jobs that are not entry level do not pay enough money to pay the rent even when working full time. That may have been true in the past, but not now.

There are entry level jobs and then there are ENTRY level jobs.

My first entry level job out of college was in IT. I managed to pay the rent and save enough for a down payment on my first home. OTOH, had my entry level job been in fast food counter work, I doubt the above would have happened.

That said, if you live in my area, you can be making 100K a year and struggle to pay rent and save enough for a down payment on a house. You'll need hundreds of thousands to keep the house payment reasonable. So, it's a location issue, also. Nothing is simple, is it?
 
I have this desire to put on a tuxedo and top hat, and panhandle with a business card, help make me the first panhandler to acquire $1M. Maybe have website detailing my progress and have that on the website on card.

.


Could do a sign, similar to a cartoon many years ago: Can you spare a 50 for a bottle of Chivas Reagal?
 
Could do a sign, similar to a cartoon many years ago: Can you spare a 50 for a bottle of Chivas Reagal?

Begging as a profitable profession has been in the public sphere for quite a while. In 1891 Doyle wrote the Sherlock Holmes story The Man with the Twisted Lip.

Note: Spoiler below....

Holmes visits the beggar Boone in his cell in Bow Street and while Boone sleeps, washes his face until his image turned from that of a beggar to that of Mr Neville St Clair.

St Clair admits to Holmes that his ‘job’ in the city was begging. As a young man reporting for an evening paper, St Clair had once acted as a beggar for an article, using the secrets of make-up he had learned from an interest in acting. Shocked at how much money he was able to make, St Clair returned to the scheme when he needed to pay off a debt and then decided to quit his job as a reporter, describing the decision as ‘a long fight between my pride and the money’.
 
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+1

I also have talked to panhandlers. They easily seem to be making more than minimum wage. Think about it. If a few cars every 10 minutes gives them a total of $5 that is $30 an hour, And, no taxes are taken out. A few times I have been able to watch for about 30 minutes, and based on the number of cars that give to them I can see that easily happening.

The builder of our house offered a full time, full benefit job to our painting contractor’s helper. He was doing an awesome job and they wanted him on full time. The helper eventually turned down the job. Biggest reason was he would lose his section 8 housing subsidy and said he would never pass a drug test. So he passed up a job that could likely put him in a nice apartment, maybe even a house, so he could continue to live in a subsidized development where he only had to pay $200 a month and smoke all the weed he desired.
 
The builder of our house offered a full time, full benefit job to our painting contractor’s helper. He was doing an awesome job and they wanted him on full time. The helper eventually turned down the job. Biggest reason was he would lose his section 8 housing subsidy and said he would never pass a drug test. So he passed up a job that could likely put him in a nice apartment, maybe even a house, so he could continue to live in a subsidized development where he only had to pay $200 a month and smoke all the weed he desired.

Not especially proud of it, but there are members in our extended family that have the same mindset. No entry level, or any, job needed or wanted.
 
Not especially proud of it, but there are members in our extended family that have the same mindset. No entry level, or any, job needed or wanted.

Personally, I could never imagine not wanting to improve and likely many, if not all, on here would say the same.
 
I am not sure that it’s materially harder for young people to make it these days IF the kids are adaptable. Our niece and her husband are both PT’s. They graduated with a ton of student loan debt, both got traveling PT jobs, bought a used RV, and they take 13-week contracts with the best balance between net pay and desirable environment for them. They’ve had assignments in AZ, CA, OR, WA, SC,and Alaska. They’ve experienced so much and they’ve also paid off a lot of debt and built up savings. They drive cars with 200K+ miles on them and mostly live frugally although they do spend on weekend outings to enjoy the area where they’re living.

Our nephew has undergrad degrees in sports journalism and economics. He got a job right out of college as a videographer for a major university’s sports teams. Got a cheap studio apartment for a couple of years until he could move up to a nicer apartment. Also drives a vehicle with 200K miles. Just recently, he got a job offer from another university in a different town that increased his pay by over 50%. He moved and is doing well in that job.

Neither of these kids ever lived at home after college and they both drive old cars and are careful about how they spend money. They’re also willing to go where the opportunities are. Perhaps that is one key to success.

Any kid wanting to live in CA but not at home with parents had better have multiple roommates or lots of parental support or a fantastic job.
 
The builder of our house offered a full time, full benefit job to our painting contractor’s helper. He was doing an awesome job and they wanted him on full time. The helper eventually turned down the job. Biggest reason was he would lose his section 8 housing subsidy and said he would never pass a drug test. So he passed up a job that could likely put him in a nice apartment, maybe even a house, so he could continue to live in a subsidized development where he only had to pay $200 a month and smoke all the weed he desired.

Personally, I could never imagine not wanting to improve and likely many, if not all, on here would say the same.

With "improving's one lot in life" there is risk. There is no guarantee how far you will improve. To some the risk is worth it. To others they prefer guarantees. Where they are, as "mediocre" as it seems to some of us, is comfortable because it is known to them. IMHO, when people claim there are not enough "opportunities", many times what they really mean is there are not enough "guarantees".
 
I am not sure that it’s materially harder for young people to make it these days IF the kids are adaptable.


Why should they be adaptable?

It seems like unrealistic expectations are set on young people. The reality is life is more expensive now than it’s been in the past. This is the first generation that will have a declining standard of life compared to their parents.

I don’t envy them.
 
Why should they be adaptable?

It seems like unrealistic expectations are set on young people. The reality is life is more expensive now than it’s been in the past. This is the first generation that will have a declining standard of life compared to their parents.

I don’t envy them.

A bit of a repeat, but
I have been softened on my view, I now think it may be harder for this generation to get ahead. But I also think it is a personal initiative thing and with a little drive they can. Just complaining about the manager, the man, the rich and your pay, does zero good, make your situation better. I'm just thankful my kids did well, I have dentist and a chemist, although the chemist was a little slow getting his $H*t together when he did, it was all personal initiative. Even the dentist had a long history, Graduated with BS and a minor, worked three years at good pay, good bonuses, good commissions, but a company merger changed all that. She decide to be a dentist, two years of premed, then a masters because the timing was wrong to get into dental school and to puff her application, then 4 years of dental school. Almost 7 years of stick-to-itness, I'm impressed.
I saw a post on r/antiwork, that said our grandparents could work three years and be able to buy a house, I thought nonsense, but then realized my wife and I married in 1981 and bought a house in 1984, hmm. That was in a 16-3/4% 30 year mortgage environment. To add, it was a $33,000 house with 10% down, not many of those around now. A $33k house would be $95k today inflation adjusted.
 
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I Even worse, there is no consistency to the schedule. That makes it hard to get a second job. One of my kids worked over 30 years in a row due to being scheduled back to back shifts (on different days but functionally back to back) and being short handed so needing to work extra.
That's nothing. I worked 40 years in a row. :LOL:

Seriously, point taken. My niece works retail at Cosco -- a good retailer to work for -- and she still has schedule gymnastics to deal with. When you have a child that needs care, it causes all kinds of grief in her scheduling. My sister (her mom) is burnt out on emergency back up care duty. My sister wants to retire, but can't, because she has this unwanted job.
 
I am not sure that it’s materially harder for young people to make it these days IF the kids are adaptable.

I believe it takes a much more be adaptable now than in the past. When I graduated from college in 1979, a college degree was sill a relatively rare thing, and there were lots of jobs requiring not a great degree of skill that paid very well that one could work at for 30-40 years and be very well off financially. There was a lot less competition for jobs. My college debt for 4 years as about $4K, DW's was about $12K, so when we married in 1983 with a combined salary of $50K that was very easy to manage. The question was less "will we be able to buy a house" and more "when do we want to buy a house".

I understand a single anecdote is not a statistical proof, but personal earnings have risen slower than expenses, there are a higher percentages of college graduates, and while there are many more available resources, especially via the internet, to gain skills and knowledge, there is also worldwide competition that I did not face back then.

I still think one can make an effort and adapt, but I try to understand today's reality and not assume it is no different from my reality when I was young :).
 
One theme in your experiences - all those locations are served by folks in entry level low paying jobs. Those are the ones that are hardest to fill, and have been for over a year now. Lack of staff is definitely impacting in-store experiences.

I'm really befuddled by the lack of entry level employees. Where have they gone? A few years ago we would be concerned about wehther our kids could get enough summer hours to save for college in the fall. No longer!

DD2 is a life guard for the summer. The lack of staff is dangerous. She's doing 8 hour shifts at a moderately busy apartment pool by herself. 8 hours in 95 degree heat and only one person on staff bc they can't get enough kids to work. She's had one full on save and went into the pool yesterday after a 6 year old whose parents wouldn't keep her out of the deep end.

She makes $15/hour and has enough leverage that she was able to say "I don't work weekends"...at 19 years old...in a summer life guard job! She would never do it, but I'm 100% sure if she called her boss and said she wanted $17 or even $20/hr she would get it.

This week she gave her boss her back to school schedule -- a week of vacation with the fam and then 3 days off before we drive her to school. Pretty normal college kid stuff. Her boss actually pestered her about whether she would cancel our family vacation. Then went and looked at the move in schedule for her university and tried to convince her she didn't need three days off and then we should drive her up on Sunday morning instead of Saturday so she could work another day.

Its a whacky world out there...
 
There is literally a world wide lifeguard shortage. Something about the pandemic and training pipeline.

In my city, the pools came to an absolute crisis in late spring. They were only open 20% of normal hours. The city raised pay and I understand the lifeguard capacity is better, but they still need guards.

I spoke with the manager at my close by city pool and asked if I got certified, could I only work 4 or 8 hours a week? He said normally, I'd have to work at various pools on assigned shifts, but since they are desperate, they'd take me if I got certified and could pass a drug test.

I decided I like retired life too much, plus I had a back operation and I'd hate for my back to fail me when somebody needed me the most.

BTW: do not underestimate the impact of clean drug testing on the labor pool.
 
In our corner of the world, retiree’s are taking on some of the jobs. I work 4-5 days a month at a local winery. Our tasting room staff is made up of early retirees, mothers looking for extra income and work at home folks looking for a social outlet. The world will adapt.

For me personally having earned income leads to other financial advantages.
 
I saw a post on r/antiwork, that said our grandparents could work three years and be able to buy a house, I thought nonsense, but then realized my wife and I married in 1981 and bought a house in 1984, hmm. That was in a 16-3/4% 30 year mortgage environment. To add, it was a $33,000 house with 10% down, not many of those around now. A $33k house would be $95k today inflation adjusted.


Exactly. Housing and education costs are significantly higher than in the past after adjusted for inflation.

DS is doing amazingly well for his age (early twenties), yet will struggle to buy a home in the HCOL area where he was born and raised. And he’s the lucky one, since eventually he’ll be able to pull it off.

Many end up having to leave because they’ve been priced out. I think that’s sad and not great for society.
 
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