What kind of crap are your unhappy couple friends putting up with?My oldest son and his wife have been happily married for 13 years. Of all my local friends they are the only happy couple. I leave most of their homes glad I don’t have to put up with that crap anymore. The only other time I lived alone was the 18 months between divorcing husband number two and living with who eventually became number 3. I thought living with someone for 6 years would test it out but I didn’t count on extreme personality changes and serial cheating.
My 82 yo DM recently has her own apartment in a retirement community and is happy there. She said it’s the first time in her entire life that she has had her own place!
My DW never reads this forum, so I feel safe expressing myself, but YMMV. After 26 years of marriage, I’m developing a thesis for the current state of my marriage that I’d like to bounce off of the experienced folks here:
Our expectations for marriage are incorrect.
First off all, roughly half of all marriages end in divorce. That does NOT mean that the remaining half are blissful unions. So, how do we face up to the fact that the vast majority of marriages. 75% (80%? 90% or more are not blissful unions?
I’ve become curious what keeps DW and me plugging along? She says I don’t listen to her and I don’t share my feelings with her. I think she’s volatile and can’t take any responsibility for her contributions to our problems. Years and years of couples counseling have not moved our essential issues one iota.
By the way, health issues prevented us from having kids, so we do not experience children or grandchildren dynamics.
So, why do we stay together? I think it’s honestly because:
1) Financial security and lifestyle. If we divorce, we’d both be poorer, especially her. We’ve both worked hard for what we have and don’t want to go backward. This is her big one.
2) We are pretty good socially as a couple. We are fortunate to be in our late 50s and enjoy a large circle of couples friends. It is very hard to find enjoyable chemistry across so many people, and we cherish it. Some divorces have happened and, inevitably, one of the former spouses disappears from the herd. Neither of us want that, but this is an especially big one for me. And my family largely adores DW. We both avoid what’s left of her family, so mine is all she has.
3) Loneliness does not appeal to either of us. So, what happens? In my observation, divorce or widowed people our age stay single for 18 months to 3 years, find someone on the internet, and start the whole cycle toward 75%-likely-misery all over again. This cycle happened for all of our parents and all of our divorced friends. This seems pointless to me. Why would we do that if it turns out the same in the end? For the promise of a couple of years of good sex before controls and spats and silent treatments and obligations and the new person’s crazy family members stifle us again? I might be overly jaded and cynical, but BLECH. The high risk of repeating this cycle does not seem worth it.
4). Sometimes, our relationship is really pretty good. We enjoy our cats, traveling, our friends and family, eating out, watching TV, improving our house, each other’s humor, etc. We generally like and respect each other.
So, maybe we ought to let go of how we felt in our 20s, get clear about what we can realistically expect, and settle for good enough.
That’s my current mental model.
If you are in one of the few blissful older marriages, congrats, though I kind of don’t believe you and wonder why you’re reading this thread.
Back to the thread topic. I have considered (and considered…) whether I would be better off alone. All I can say is, so far, “no” has been the prevailing answer. But I 100% respect those who have struck out on their own and have built a satisfying life without all the downsides of committed, monogamous, live-in partnerships. Good. For. You.
Thank you, ExFlyBoy5. Your number 4 caused me to pause, because I think it applies to us. DW often says that I’m her best friend. I think this item goes in to my bucket of “this often sucks but maybe it’s good enough.”
Marriage #3 for me has been the best of the trio. But over the 25 years we have been together, we have grown apart (in many ways) and now DW has advanced COPD and is deteriorating quickly. I am essentially her "caretaker" since she is on O2, a dozen meds and pushing a walker all the time. Plus, the steroids have ruined her body as she has aged considerably more than me. As for me, I am in great health with no problems and very active at 78+.
Reading the recent above posts by Markola and ExFlyBoy5, I could say similar situations have existed between DW and I over the years, and we were "good friends" for many of the 25 years. But now I am married to what I see is a different woman as we don't share anything intimate, or even social, as she is not wanting to participate due to her declining health.
Her three adult children and I get along OK, and my daughter sees us as a couple, but our day to day life together is really not known to them. Sometimes I feel like I am in jail for all practical purposes.
I could live as a single person again and the odds are way in my favor that I will experience that again. But if that happens, any new women in my life will be in "just visiting" mode.
Your experience seems to mirror my parents, it's kinda freaky, to be honest.
Both Mom and Dad had COPD, but Dad's came on quite a bit later in life. Mom started to decline after a car accident in 2005 and died in 2013 of COPD (while also suffering from dementia that seems to really "ramp up" after the accident). The last 3 years of her life were quite a challenge for Dad, but he met the challenge. After Mom passed, he was different but seemed to be a little happier. Not happy to have "lost his wife" but that her misery had finally ended. There were more than a couple of occasions when she would ask, "why am I still alive?" It was a very trying time for Dad. In 2017, his COPD started to really get bad and most of his friends started to die which made things so much worse. He passed in 2018 a couple months shy of 91 years old. One of the last things he told me was that he looked forward to seeing Mom...he missed her terribly and hoped they could "relive the good days."
I saw them have good days and some bad days, but all in all...they were content and they leaned on each other during some very bad days and I don't think their marriage is what made them. They were one...them against the world.
Sometimes I feel like I am in jail for all practical purposes.
Man, this comment really stuck out and I am sure it’s true. Thank you and best wishes to you a d DW.
Both of my (divorced) parents ended up as caretakers for dementia patients and other ailments. My 82 yo mother just couldn’t hack it any more physically and told her partner’s children that they had to take over, which they have, but causing a rift. My dad is 82 and is a caregiver for his partner, who has dementia and other issues. My dad is still working some as an engineer! He told me he’d screwed up lots of relationships in his life (true) and was determined not to screw this one up. His partner has Sundowners syndrome and is now up from 1:30 - 5:30 am, and my dad has to watch her, so I can’t see how all this can continue. Prison is an apt comparison.
Some needed dark humor as we’re we’re all mired in the muck: A friend’s father recently died in NJ after a bout with dementia. He’d been a successful bond trader. He literally thought he was incarcerated in the locked-down memory ward. His daughter asked him, “Well, Dad, why do you think you are in prison?” He replied, “Oh, because of the securities fraud.”
His daughter stuck her fingers in her ears and went “LALALALALA…”
My DW never reads this forum, so I feel safe expressing myself, but YMMV. After 26 years of marriage, I’m developing a thesis for the current state of my marriage that I’d like to bounce off of the experienced folks here:
Our expectations for marriage are incorrect.
First off all, roughly half of all marriages end in divorce. That does NOT mean that the remaining half are blissful unions. So, how do we face up to the fact that the vast majority of marriages. 75% (80%? 90% or more are not blissful unions?
I’ve become curious what keeps DW and me plugging along? She says I don’t listen to her and I don’t share my feelings with her. I think she’s volatile and can’t take any responsibility for her contributions to our problems. Years and years of couples counseling have not moved our essential issues one iota.
By the way, health issues prevented us from having kids, so we do not experience children or grandchildren dynamics.
So, why do we stay together? I think it’s honestly because:
1) Financial security and lifestyle. If we divorce, we’d both be poorer, especially her. We’ve both worked hard for what we have and don’t want to go backward. This is her big one.
2) We are pretty good socially as a couple. We are fortunate to be in our late 50s and enjoy a large circle of couples friends. It is very hard to find enjoyable chemistry across so many people, and we cherish it. Some divorces have happened and, inevitably, one of the former spouses disappears from the herd. Neither of us want that, but this is an especially big one for me. And my family largely adores DW. We both avoid what’s left of her family, so mine is all she has.
3) Loneliness does not appeal to either of us. So, what happens? In my observation, divorce or widowed people our age stay single for 18 months to 3 years, find someone on the internet, and start the whole cycle toward 75%-likely-misery all over again. This cycle happened for all of our parents and all of our divorced friends. This seems pointless to me. Why would we do that if it turns out the same in the end? For the promise of a couple of years of good sex before controls and spats and silent treatments and obligations and the new person’s crazy family members stifle us again? I might be overly jaded and cynical, but BLECH. The high risk of repeating this cycle does not seem worth it.
4). Sometimes, our relationship is really pretty good. We enjoy our cats, traveling, our friends and family, eating out, watching TV, improving our house, each other’s humor, etc. Despite our many failings, we generally like and respect each other, believe it or not. I’d say we trust each other to have each other’s back, oh, 75%.
So, maybe we ought to let go of how we felt in our 20s, get clear about what we can realistically expect, and settle for good enough.
That’s my current mental model.
If you are in one of the few blissful older marriages, congrats, though I kind of don’t believe you and wonder why you’re reading this thread.
Back to the thread topic. I have considered (and considered…) whether I would be better off alone. All I can say is, so far, “no” has been the prevailing answer. But I 100% respect those who have struck out on their own and have built a satisfying life without all the downsides of committed, monogamous, live-in partnerships. Good. For. You.
Excellent post! I think you’ve nailed it for most couples. People stay married for a myriad of reasons - family, money, friends, community, pride, religion, etc but doesn’t mean they’re happy. My friend who has owned a very successful counseling business counseling almost exclusively very rich people told me that 90% of couples are unhappy/unfulfilled. I am convinced that for most of us, the people we chose as partners in our youths, wouldn’t be our choice in our 50s and that’s for good reason. If you’re too discerning in your youth, how and when will you reproduce? Nature has designed us this way. What matters to you in your 50s and beyond change a whole lot. If you are lucky enough to find someone that works for you your whole life, more power to you. I was really opposed to divorce in my youth, having been raised in a pretty conservative fashion. Now, I think divorce can be the best thing if it provides you with the fulfillment and freedom you’re looking for. Life is short.
Divorce can be the best thing, but yeah can also be very expensive.
Between the house and cash payments, it cost me 577k. It would have been more, but 2008 was the only year there were no bonuses.
It’s often better to work out differences to save your finances and your family, if you have one. Sometimes the differences are insurmountable but people choose to live in misery instead (to everyone their own).