Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[aja8888]

In recent years, it is very hard to get a windshield replaced without a trip to the dealer due to disruption in the various electronic monitoring devices.

Joe, about 4 months ago, I had a cracked windshield (big rock hit) on my 2021 Hyundai Tucson and went to a local glass shop here in Spring, Texas (Apple Glass) and had it replaced, no problem. They aligned the cameras and sent the certified alignment data to my insurer, as required. The total cost was about $800. I have glass coverage and it was covered in full.

I never thought about going to the dealer.

 

[ken830]

I pay £203/year on my Leaf. ($254)

Wow! Is that typical? I mean, at that cost level, it may as well be free Kind of a rounding error for your annual budgeting, right?

 

[Alan]

Wow! Is that typical? I mean, at that cost level, it may as well be free Kind of a rounding error for your annual budgeting, right?

Yes, very typical. All types of insurance are a fraction of what we used to pay in the USA

 

[Fermion]

Yes, very typical. All types of insurance are a fraction of what we used to pay in the USA

You must have gotten rid of all the lawyers over there.

 

[ken830]

Yes, very typical. All types of insurance are a fraction of what we used to pay in the USA

I'm not an actuary, but isn't the premium too low to break even with claim payouts? Are insurers subsidized? Or are UK claims rates 90% lower? Are auto repair shops charging much lower rates? Or are USA insurance providers making hundreds or thousands of percentage higher profit margins?

What about more optional insurance like travel insurance or pet insurance?

 

[Alan]

You must have gotten rid of all the lawyers over there.

Judges decide damages using very specific guidelines. No huge payouts given by juries.

 

[Alan]

I'm not an actuary, but isn't the premium too low to break even with claim payouts? Are insurers subsidized? Or are UK claims rates 90% lower? Are auto repair shops charging much lower rates? Or are USA insurance providers making hundreds or thousands of percentage higher profit margins?

What about more optional insurance like travel insurance or pet insurance?

Most things, from the price of apples to house insurance, health insurance, internet, cell phone plans and cable etc is much cheaper here. No subsidies, just a lot more companies competing in an open market. Regulators prevent oligopolies dominating the market place.

Our house insurance including rebuilding and contents insurance is £121/year. ($500k house)

 

[REWahoo]

Judges decide damages using very specific guidelines. No huge payouts given by juries.

So I guess you don't see adverts like this on the telly?

 

[Ronstar]

About 10 years ago, my insurance provider offered a 10% discount on alternative fueled vehicles. More recently, I switched to Tesla insurance and saved a bit more than 50%. I'm paying $250/month for a 2018 Model 3 and a 2022 Model X. It's been almost a year, so hopefully the rates stay low.

Am I seeing this correctly - do you pay $3000 in car insurance per year for 2 cars?

 

[JoeWras]

Joe, about 4 months ago, I had a cracked windshield (big rock hit) on my 2021 Hyundai Tucson and went to a local glass shop here in Spring, Texas (Apple Glass) and had it replaced, no problem. They aligned the cameras and sent the certified alignment data to my insurer, as required. The total cost was about $800. I have glass coverage and it was covered in full.



I never thought about going to the dealer.

It's brand and repair shop specific. Safelight can do quite a few as manufacturers finally shared instructions. That's my point. Right to repair means they have to share procedures.

BTW, I just had two windshields replaced on our 2009 and 2010. Grand total of $520. That's right, $260 per windshield. I used a small independent. I asked him about cameras if I would have had them. He said he can't do the recalibration. I didn't need it on our basic older cars. I paid out of pocket. In my state, deductible applies. I have a $1k deductible.

 

[Alan]

So I guess you don't see adverts like this on the telly?

We certainly don’t.

There are plenty of these types of lawyer around - my wife’s brother was one, just not in your face like in the USA.

Anyway, I won’t post any more off topic posts here. Back to EVs.

 

[aja8888]

It's brand and repair shop specific. Safelight can do quite a few as manufacturers finally shared instructions. That's my point. Right to repair means they have to share procedures.

BTW, I just had two windshields replaced on our 2009 and 2010. Grand total of $520. That's right, $260 per windshield. I used a small independent. I asked him about cameras if I would have had them. He said he can't do the recalibration. I didn't need it on our basic older cars. I paid out of pocket. In my state, deductible applies. I have a $1k deductible.

In Texas, glass coverage is recently offered. It wasn't when I moved there years ago. It costs about $20/yr as an adder (no deductible). When I had my 2005 Jetta 10 years ago, a glass shop replaced the windshield for around $200 or so OOP.

 

[explanade]

Ugh. Talk about electronics gremlins, I remember my parents Chrysler Voyager. While I had reasonable luck with my 1st generation minivan, they had a heck of a time with their later model. The engine would die at the most critical time, such as making a left turn. They brought their car to the dealer numerous times, just to be told there was nothing wrong that could be found. Ugh!

People are excited about cars loaded with electronics, but I don't share the same enthusiasm, despite being an EE. Perhaps it's because I worked in aerospace, where more caution is exercised in applying "wonderful new things".

With digital electronics, there could be software rot over time.

But more likely, a software update slows things down or breaks things.

Or there are hacks.

 

[Chuckanut]

You must have gotten rid of all the lawyers over there.

Shakespeare was English. Right? And he famously wrote about killing all the lawyers, though that line is taken out of context and it’s meaning totally bent out of shape.

 

[ken830]

Am I seeing this correctly - do you pay $3000 in car insurance per year for 2 cars?

Yeah.. do you think that a high or low?? My six month premium is $1,502.32, but I pay monthly. My previous insurance with AAA with as near-identical coverage as I could get was over $8000 after I added the Model X (to be fair, the 10-year old 2013 Model S was in the mix too, but before the X, the premium was ~$4k/year, I believe).

When we first switched from our old ~$20k gas cars to ~$100k Tesla, we didn't notice insurance rates change much... but in recent years, it has shot up like crazy. I have friends that pay similar rates but on their gasoline cars (Lexus, Porsche, etc.).

The Model X is less than a year old and was nearly $140k at purchase. Model 3 was over $70k when new in 2018.

My wife and I have zero recent claims or accidents, with nearly 30 years of driving history. I believe the last accident between the two of us was my wife being rear-ended at a stop light the year before we got married.

 

[Ronstar]

Yeah.. do you think that a high or low?? My six month premium is $1,502.32, but I pay monthly. My previous insurance with AAA with as near-identical coverage as I could get was over $8000 after I added the Model X (to be fair, the 10-year old 2013 Model S was in the mix too, but before the X, the premium was ~$4k/year, I believe).

When we first switched from our old ~$20k gas cars to ~$100k Tesla, we didn't notice insurance rates change much... but in recent years, it has shot up like crazy. I have friends that pay similar rates but on their gasoline cars (Lexus, Porsche, etc.).

The Model X is less than a year old and was nearly $140k at purchase. Model 3 was over $70k when new in 2018.

My wife and I have zero recent claims or accidents, with nearly 30 years of driving history. I believe the last accident between the two of us was my wife being rear-ended at a stop light the year before we got married.


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At first I thought the price was really high. But given that you have $210k in cars, maybe it isn't that bad. I pay $480 for a 2012 Acura Tl ($35k new), $550 for a 2017 Ford F150 ($50K new) and $530 for a 2021 Jeep Wrangler ($47k new).

So all in I'm $1560 for $132k in vehicles where you are $3k for $210k in vehicles. Even at my cost per vehicle value, your $210k worth of vehicles would be $2500.

I just wanted to make sure that your insurance cost was due to the high cost of the vehicles, not the fact that they are ev's. And it seems like it is. Thanks for the info.

 

[ken830]

Thanks for the recommendation. Can you use the Tesla charger with a non Tesla vehicle (ie. J1772 connector) with an included adapter? Or would you have to get a separate adapter? (after I wrote this, I noticed your post that you CAN use a J1772 connection).

fyi. I watched one review of 4 best home ev chargers on youtube and the guy in that video rated the Emporia and Tesla charger in a tie. He did say that the Tesla charger has more capabilities though. This was a good comparison of them.

FYI... "State of Charge" just released a video of the new Tesla Universal Wall Adapter:

 

[ken830]

At first I thought the price was really high. But given that you have $210k in cars, maybe it isn't that bad. I pay $480 for a 2012 Acura Tl ($35k new), $550 for a 2017 Ford F150 ($50K new) and $530 for a 2021 Jeep Wrangler ($47k new).

So all in I'm $1560 for $132k in vehicles where you are $3k for $210k in vehicles. Even at my cost per vehicle value, your $210k worth of vehicles would be $2500.

I just wanted to make sure that your insurance cost was due to the high cost of the vehicles, not the fact that they are ev's. And it seems like it is. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, unfortunately, vehicle purchase price determines registration costs too. I just paid almost $1,200 to the California DMV to renew the annual registration for the Model X!

 

[Ronstar]

Yeah, unfortunately, vehicle purchase price determines registration costs too. I just paid almost $1,200 to the California DMV to renew the annual registration for the Model X!

Wow - that's a lot. I think Arizona does registration costs based on purchase price also. Illinois is $151 IIRC. I'm surprised that Illinois hasn't followed California's lead for registration costs

 

[aja8888]

Wow - that's a lot. I think Arizona does registration costs based on purchase price also. Illinois is $151 IIRC. I'm surprised that Illinois hasn't followed California's lead for registration costs

Texas is about $70 for any car, but now EV's are $200 (?) according to REWahoo's post earlier somewhere here.

 

[REWahoo]

Texas is about $70 for any car, but now EV's are $200 (?) according to REWahoo's post earlier somewhere here.

Yes, effective 9/1/23 the state will tack on an additional $200 to register an EV each year.

 

[NW-Bound]

In AZ, the annual vehicle registration fee is 2.80% of the assessed value of the car.

The assessed value starts out at 60% of the retail price. It then depreciates 16.25% each year.

After 15 years, the car is depreciated to 1/15 its original value, and most of the registration is for some other fixed charges.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Arizona had great EV registration rates prior to this year. Our first venture into EVs some years ago we were paying less than 50.00 a year. The calculations changed in 2022 and cost went up significantly but still less than ICE registration cost. This year they are equal to ICE registration cost.
We weren't going to be able to take advantage of the 2023 7500 tax credit so we purchased our Bolt EUV in 2022. So we do save a good bit on registration cost over the coming years.

 

[Alan]

Up to now the UK has not charged an annual road tax fee for EVs but over this past 2 years they have removed all subsidies for buying EVs and EV chargers, and after this next year EV road tax will be in line with ICE road tax. (Bigger cars cost more for road tax than smaller cars)

Our daughter bought a top of the line smart EV charger for home which integrates with energy suppliers and solar panels earlier this year and it cost her exactly £1,000 ($1,250) including installation. I bought ours over 2 years ago, just before the subsidies ended and it cost £750 (£250 subsidy).

In 2022 new cars sold with a plug was 22%, 16% BEV and 6% PHEV, and subsidies on BEV purchases ended that year. I see loads of different manufacturers and models of EVs these days, although Tesla continues to be the best selling EV.

 

[RetMD21]

I know that not everyone is a fan but Scotty Kilmer has a new video on the Bolt. He's not a huge fan of EVs but I think his comments are fair