Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[explanade]

There seems to be some attractive lease deals, like little down and fairly low payments.

 

[audreyh1]

I did my first trip using V12 FSD today, on secondary roads. Went well but I'll reserve judgement until I have more experience with V12.

However, Autopark popped up when I was leaving the grocery store, so I choose a spot on screen, hit start, and let the car park itself. It was perfect, though it backed into the spot - not my preference but I suspect it's the default for Teslas because they have back bumper cameras but not front bumper. Relies on the upper windshield cameras to "see" forward, not ideal for front in parking. Just my guess.

Nice!

Looking forward to more comments as you gain experience. I never used the previous FSD or enhanced autopilot so I have no experience.

 

[Nash]

Is it me or is the price of EVs coming down drastically? Still not in the market for one and probably will not be for a few more years. We simply cannot justify one even at the reduced prices.

The prices will continue to decline. Econ101- supply and demand.

People don't want EVs.

 

[steady saver]

The prices will continue to decline. Econ101- supply and demand.

People don't want EVs.

Ha, well this people did. I love our Tesla Model Y and so glad our son talked it up so much. It took a bit of getting used to but it is a joy to drive. It isn't our only car and I understand not wanting to only have an EV at this point. (Though our son does...)

Different strokes for different folks...

 

[Zathras]

Actually, the cost of manufacturing EVs is NOT coming down drastically... Just look at margins reported in quarterly financial reports. This is true for pretty much everyone except for Tesla... And Tesla is single-handedly pushing the price down, so others need to either follow or just sell less.

Economy of scale is not reached by all manufacturers at the same time.
Tesla invested heavily in not just the vehicles, but in designing the whole process.

Other companies will lower manufacturing costs if they put the effort in. If they simply made half efforts, they never will.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

The prices will continue to decline. Econ101- supply and demand.

People don't want EVs.

Is that why Reuters reported this today?

Overall electric vehicle sales in the U.S. are forecast to increase 15% in the first quarter of this year, according to estimates by researcher Cox Automotive.

 

[Chuckanut]

Before getting into a confusing discussion of what is happening to EV sales, people might wish to read this article from the Harvard business Review.

https://hbr.org/2024/03/why-has-the-ev-market-stalled

It talks about the technology adoption life cycle and what it means to different kinds of buyers. Here are some of the basic points made in the article. Emphasis added.

The answer, I believe, is that in the world of greener vehicles, we have reached a classically difficult point in what’s known as the “technology-adoption life cycle” — specifically, the point where the challenge becomes figuring out how to move from what early adopters want to what a broader segment of the market wants.

Rogers portrayed the technology-adoption life cycle in the form of a bell curve (see Figure 1) that showed a predictable distribution of adopters over time. He divided these adopters into five very different market segments: Innovators (2.5%), Early Adopters (13.5%), Early Majority (34%), Late Majority (34%), and Laggards (16%).

the business strategist and author Geoffrey Moore made the case that the transition is actually often quite bumpy, because of “cracks” that exist between the needs, attitudes, and behaviors of the different kinds of adopters.

In my empirical study of EV owners I can say for certain, that every EV owner I know likes if not loves their EV. Also, every EV owner I know has their own private charging station that is easily available for things like overnight charging. I conclude that most current EV owners are the low-fruit on the tree - the innovators and the Early Adopters.

 

[Zathras]

Before getting into a confusing discussion of what is happening to EV sales, people might wish to read this article from the Harvard business Review.

https://hbr.org/2024/03/why-has-the-ev-market-stalled

It talks about the technology adoption life cycle and what it means to different kinds of buyers. Here are some of the basic points made in the article. Emphasis added.





In my empirical study of EV owners I can say for certain, that every EV owner I know likes if not loves their EV. Also, every EV owner I know has their own private charging station that is easily available for things like overnight charging. I conclude that most current EV owners are the low-fruit on the tree - the innovators and the Early Adopters.

In the USA, I would agree completely. We are still in the early adopter phase. Over the next couple of years, we should start moving into the early majority group.
Worldwide, we are already in the early majority group.

 

[TrvlBug]

Saw my first Cybertruck today . Very cool looking thing! Living in the SF Bay Area, I'm surprised it took so long.

 

[yakers]

Cybertruck parked near my house, looks interesting, not for me, I want a small EV the Bolt EV we have it the largest one I want, prefer something the size of the Fiat 500E or Smart EV, I expect the Chinese (Korean, Japanese?) will fill this void.

 

[Midpack]

People don't want EVs.

Keep telling yourself that despite the facts. I am not betting on the projections below, but the trend is already clear. ICE market share peaked years ago and declining, and EV and PHEV/HEV sales have grown every single year, even in the US - BEV adoption has been more robust in China and Europe. BEV growth rates are slowing, but once the addressable market grows ($25K EVs), growth will resume. Ford, Stellantis and others have been laying off ICE white and blue collar workers by the thousands and that impacts thousands of supplier jobs as well.

 

[Ronstar]

Apparently Teslas are good pet sitters. This one was parked next to me in a Las Vegas parking deck with a little pooch and no driver inside.

 

[braumeister]

I've enjoyed a PHEV since 2018, and just bought another one. As someone who suffers from chronic range anxiety it's perfect for my lifestyle and certainly a great transition away from pure ICE.

 

[Midpack]

Apparently Teslas are good pet sitters. This one was parked next to me in a Las Vegas parking deck with a little pooch and no driver inside.

Yep, that's "Dog Mode."

 

[audreyh1]

Apparently Teslas are good pet sitters. This one was parked next to me in a Las Vegas parking deck with a little pooch and no driver inside.

That’s simply to let concerned people know that the car AC is on so the pet is comfortable and not locked in a hot car.

 

[Zathras]

Cybertruck parked near my house, looks interesting, not for me, I want a small EV the Bolt EV we have it the largest one I want, prefer something the size of the Fiat 500E or Smart EV, I expect the Chinese (Korean, Japanese?) will fill this void.

I like small cars as well.
It is the reason I bought a MINI SE a couple years ago. If the Smart EV had been available I would have bought that.
Sadly, there was too much I missed about the Tesla, so I recently picked up a new Model 3.

I would love to have more options for small EVs.

 

[Ronstar]

Yep, that's "Dog Mode."

That’s simply to let concerned people know that the car AC is on so the pet is comfortable and not locked in a hot car.

Hopefully "dog mode" includes recirculating cabin air with outside air.

 

[MichaelB]

I think that “pet mode”:function is clever and useful.

 

[Ronstar]

I think that “pet mode”:function is clever and useful.

Definitely!

 

[audreyh1]

Hopefully "dog mode" includes recirculating cabin air with outside air.

Yes, HEPA filtered air just like when humans are inside. What would be the difference?

 

[Ronstar]

Yes, HEPA filtered air just like when humans are inside. What would be the difference?

Have to have fresh air in the cabin. Breathing in an enclosed cabin would result in diminished O2 and increased CO2 over time. Probably not to the level that it would hurt a pup, but still not ideal. But it sounds like outside air is recirculated inside through the filter.

 

[audreyh1]

Have to have fresh air in the cabin. Breathing in an enclosed cabin would result in diminished O2 and increased CO2 over time. Probably not to the level that it would hurt a pup, but still not ideal. But it sounds like outside air is recirculated inside through the filter.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Outside air is coming in. I surprised you assumed otherwise.

There is a recirculate mode but I doubt people use it because the outside air filtration is so good. Recirculate is noisier and it actually increases air resistance slightly thus reducing range. No need either because the HEPA filter is excellent at removing outside smells. Road smells are a real pet peeve for DH. The filter can even remove inside smells if you put it in BioDefense mode. Very fast too.

 

[audreyh1]

OK took FSDS out for a spin! (FSD Supervised).

We were both very impressed. Neither of us have ever used FSD before. DH has enthusiastically monitored news about it for the last several years. He told me way back that we shouldn’t bother with the old stack (11) wait for the new stack (12). For the last couple of days I have been reading discussions about FSDS plus watched a few videos.

We had a couple of cross town errands. Neither route was simple plenty of traffic lights, turns, sections of interstate even. Car drove most of it flawlessly. Very impressive.

Takes turns a little faster and tighter than I would, but it can also see much better than I can. Speed was spot on - it pretty much stuck to the speed limit which was fine with me for this initial try out. It automatically changed lanes as needed to go around slower traffic, traffic lights great even with lots of traffic, automatic turn signals, merged on off interstate no problem, crossed several railroad tracks no problem. In one parking lot it didn’t quite detect the parking spaces but when I pulled forward to back into one, Autopark popped up on the screen and it took over and backed in very precisely.

I think my favorite feature is simply pressing the turn signal when you want it to change lanes. A couple of times I knew we would be better of in a different lane and press the left or right turn signal button was all I had to do.

We have 12.3.3 version of FSDS which is newer than several of the reviews I’ve been reading about.

 

[joesxm3]

I agree that the turn signal is nice. I drove with autopilot since I had cancelled FSD. It really bothered me not to have that feature.

I guess you will be stuck with FSD from now on.

Another thing I noticed was that I did not quite trust autopilot after being used to FSD.

 

[Midpack]

OTOH, Tesla reported sales volumes this morning, and fell short of all expectations. They avoided the impact all legacy automakers have been feeling with their EVs, but Tesla isn't immune. Tesla has said growth will be ever more challenging until they expand their addressable market with the $25K car. There's no question growth in EV sales have slowed, but one quarter does not a trend make. We'll see.

In other news, Tesla just passed their 6 millionth car produced. Not bad for a car company that just started production 16 years ago, and didn't really grow share until 2017 with the Model 3.