Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[Breedlove]

Just sold a 2002 Rousch last fall . It was a lot of fun.

 

[Zathras]

I don’t know if this is what happened, however, the rules on USA content of the car and batteries ramp up over time.

The standard range Model 3 is loosing half it’s credit next year as well.

 

[explanade]

Here's a 3-year report on the Mach E from a reviewer who first reviewed the Mach E when it came out.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/1...-mach-e-hows-the-pony-ev-doing-3-years-later/

 

[ken830]

I don’t know if this is what happened, however, the rules on USA content of the car and batteries ramp up over time.

The standard range Model 3 is loosing half it’s credit next year as well.

Yes... I believe it's the USA content of the car... The federal government waived (or loosened) the requirements for the first year (2023).

 

[Midpack]

The IRS tax credit depends on two major factors, North American assembly and battery/critical mineral sources for EV makes/models. There are also other factors and income limitations for the buyer.

The tax credit for two Tesla models will be cut in half for 2024, and potentially more in the years after.

Currently, seven Tesla vehicles are eligible for the full $7,500 in tax credits, according to its website:

Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive
Model 3 Long Range
Model 3 Performance
Model X Dual Motor
Model Y Rear-Wheel Drive
Model Y Long Range
Model Y Performance

Starting on Jan. 1, the federal tax credit for the Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive and the Model 3 Long Range will drop to $3,750, according to Tesla’s website. Tesla recommends delivery by Dec. 31 for the full $7,500 tax credit.

 

[Zathras]

The IRS tax credit depends on two major factors, North American assembly and battery/critical mineral sources for EV makes/models. There are also other factors and income limitations for the buyer.

The tax credit for two Tesla models will be cut in half for 2024, and potentially more in the years after.

Thanks for the details

Personally, I am seriously considering the Standard Range Model 3 Highland if it is available this coming year.

• It has plenty of range for me
• I like the LFP batteries
• I love what I have seen about the Highland

 

[explanade]

They are apparently raising the threshold for percentages of certain content next year.

Also starting in 2024, the tax credits are suppose to be available as instant rebates at point of purchase rather than claiming as tax credit when you file.

 

[Midpack]

They are apparently raising the threshold for percentages of certain content next year.

Also starting in 2024, the tax credits are suppose to be available as instant rebates at point of purchase rather than claiming as tax credit when you file.

More minutiae than I care to know since I bought in 2023 , but FWIW. And I've also read tax credits will be POS in 2024 instead of filed with tax returns for 2023.

Critical Minerals: To be eligible for the $3,750 critical minerals portion of the tax credit, the percentage of the value of the battery’s critical minerals that are extracted or processed in the United States or a U.S. free-trade agreement partner or recycled in North America, must meet or exceed the following thresholds:

Year Critical minerals minimum percent value requirement
2023 40%
2024 50%
2025 60%
2026 70%
2027 and later 80%

Battery Components: To be eligible for the $3,750 battery components portion of the tax credit, the percentage of the value of the battery’s components that are manufactured or assembled in North America must meet or exceed the following thresholds:

Year Battery components minimum percent value requirement
2023 50%
2024 and 2025 60%
2026 70%
2027 80%
2028 90%
2029 and later 100%

 

[ken830]

The credit at POS is going to be great, but I wonder how the income limit will be calculated/enforced. Do you need to predict your current year income? Do you pay back up to $7,500 at tax filing time the following year? Haven't really looked into it because we're way over the limits but this may be applicable for me in retirement.

 

[Zathras]

The credit at POS is going to be great, but I wonder how the income limit will be calculated/enforced. Do you need to predict your current year income? Do you pay back up to $7,500 at tax filing time the following year? Haven't really looked into it because we're way over the limits but this may be applicable for me in retirement.

My understanding is that the buyer transfers the credit to the dealer.
The dealer then discount the cost by the same amount.

As such, the customer doesn’t need to have tax liability.

 

[ken830]

My understanding is that the buyer transfers the credit to the dealer.
The dealer then discount the cost by the same amount.

As such, the customer doesn’t need to have tax liability.

I understand that part, but there will still be income limits.

 

[Zathras]

I understand that part, but there will still be income limits.

Apologies, I misunderstood.
I am not sure. They may require a simple deceleration of income.
Alternatively, the lease loophole hasn’t been closed yet. So if someone has too much income they can lease to still get the credit.

 

[explanade]

Saw a Lexus EV SUV the other day.

I know that the first Toyota EVs are not that good so I wouldn't buy but with the interior quality Lexus cars have, if they ever put out a more competitive EV, that would be the one to look for.

BMW and Audi also make EVs but their first attempts are either too expensive or not that competitive in the case of the Audis.

 

[perinova]

I understand that part, but there will still be income limits.

If I understood correctly they will request the last filed tax return. For example file early next year to use this year's income level...

(it will be the same for all the IRA energy rebates coming up next year)

 

[ken830]

Saw a Lexus EV SUV the other day.

I know that the first Toyota EVs are not that good so I wouldn't buy but with the interior quality Lexus cars have, if they ever put out a more competitive EV, that would be the one to look for.

BMW and Audi also make EVs but their first attempts are either too expensive or not that competitive in the case of the Audis.

Don't hold your breath. These companies have been trying to build EVs for about a decade at this point. Their current offerings are far from their first attempts. It's impossible to build anything good if you don't believe in your own product.

The chances of one of the dedicated EV companies building a car with an interior you like or you growing to like the modern interiors is way more likely than hoping the old, slow companies build great EVs with horribly old fashion interiors.

If I understood correctly they will request the last filed tax return. For example file early next year to use this year's income level...

(it will be the same for all the IRA energy rebates coming up next year)

But that would be an estimate at best. I'm sure the income used to qualify would have to be from the same year the vehicle was purchased.

 

[Zathras]

Don't hold your breath. These companies have been trying to build EVs for about a decade at this point. Their current offerings are far from their first attempts. It's impossible to build anything good if you don't believe in your own product.

The chances of one of the dedicated EV companies building a car with an interior you like or you growing to like the modern interiors is way more likely than hoping the old, slow companies build great EVs with horribly old fashion interiors.

I somewhat agree. However, many of the early attempts were simply trying to stuff a bunch of batteries into an ICE vehicle. No really useful lessons were learned.

Hyundai, as an example, is doing a great job with the Ionia 6. The styling, drive, and incorporation of tech is well done. However, they may have issues with the mechanicals. Hyundai will learn from this and build a better next gen BEV.
On the other hand, Toyota seems to refuse to learn from their experience with EVs. In their case, I believe they want to slow the adoption of BEVs as much as possible

 

[stephenson]

Don't hold your breath. These companies have been trying to build EVs for about a decade at this point. Their current offerings are far from their first attempts. It's impossible to build anything good if you don't believe in your own product.

The chances of one of the dedicated EV companies building a car with an interior you like or you growing to like the modern interiors is way more likely than hoping the old, slow companies build great EVs with horribly old fashion interiors.

But that would be an estimate at best. I'm sure the income used to qualify would have to be from the same year the vehicle was purchased.

Now, Ken,

Your assessment seems a bit illogical - these are just vehicles with electric motors, right? These companies are full of the same types of smart folks at Tesla.

 

[aja8888]

The chances of one of the dedicated EV companies building a car with an interior you like or you growing to like the modern interiors is way more likely than hoping the old, slow companies build great EVs with horribly old fashion interiors.

Well, it's apparent you haven't seen the interior in a new Bolt. It's quite nice and has a real cluster south of the steering wheel and a 10.5" screen blended into the center of the dash rather than sticking out like a sore thumb. It's attractive, functional and not as spartan as a Tesla. But, to each his own opinion!

 

[audreyh1]

I actually did ride inside a Ford Mustang MachE recently in Europe. I thought it was quite nice inside, and surprisingly roomy. I was in the back seat.

Shortly before that I was handed a regular Ford Mustang as a first available rental. Bright metallic yellow it got admiring remarks, but it was cramped, not roomy at all and no back seat leg space.

Conclusion: the Ford MachE has nothing to do with the regular Mustang line, ha ha.

 

[aja8888]

I actually did ride inside a Ford Mustang MachE recently in Europe. I thought it was quite nice inside, and surprisingly roomy. I was in the back seat.

Shortly before that I was handed a regular Ford Mustang as a first available rental. Bright metallic yellow it got admiring remarks, but it was cramped, not roomy at all and no back seat leg space.

Conclusion: the Ford MachE has nothing to do with the regular Mustang line, ha ha.

All of out Mustangs over the years had very little room in the back seat and small trunk space. But they sell and sell and sell! The 60 year anniversary model may be built next year.

 

[folivier]

But when I bought my 2018 Mustang convertible it had the biggest back seat and trunk of all of the other sports convertibles available. It's not a family car after all.

 

[aja8888]

But when I bought my 2018 Mustang convertible it had the biggest back seat and trunk of all of the other sports convertibles available. It's not a family car after all.

Size is relative!

My 1965 Corvette had no back seat (small storage space behind the front passenger area) and no trunk!

My 2023 Bolt EUV has a very large back seat area and a good sized hatch area. When the rear seats are folded down, I can put a lot of stuff in the space.,

 

[jgman]

If I understood correctly they will request the last filed tax return. For example file early next year to use this year's income level...

(it will be the same for all the IRA energy rebates coming up next year)

What if our income exceeds the 150k threshold in 2023 but will be below in 2024?

 

[RetMD21]

What if our income exceeds the 150k threshold in 2023 but will be below in 2024?

Typically it would be based on income in the year you by the vehicle IDK what happens when you get the credit payment at the time of sale. You probably have to pay it back at tax time if you don't qualify http. The dealer submits a form with your ss number

www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

You know that the 150 k limit is for single filers, right?

 

[joesxm3]

Typically it would be based on income in the year you by the vehicle IDK what happens when you get the credit payment at the time of sale. You probably have to pay it back at tax time if you don't qualify http. The dealer submits a form with your ss number

www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

You know that the 150 k limit is for single filers, right?

Thanks for the link.

It does say that if you qualify in previous year or current year you are ok.

It also says that seller must supply buyer tax ID to irs and I don't think tesla co!elected mine.guess I will have to wait to see the form they send me.