Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[explanade]

Some lease deals for EVs now.

https://insideevs.com/features/410039/best-electric-car-deals-this-month/

I would say they're comparable to my last two leases.

Of course depends on dealer, sales tax, local market, etc.

But you can amortize the down payment and pay higher monthly payment but avoid the big cash up front.


I would say it's more competitive than the situation I saw back in December 2021 when I leased my current car.

So hopefully when I'm in the market again a year from now, there will be more EV choices and favorable promotions.

OTOH, a lot of these EVs are going to lose access to the full $7500 tax credit because of domestic-content requirements which are increasing every year.

 

[RetMD21]

.....OTOH, a lot of these EVs are going to lose access to the full $7500 tax credit because of domestic-content requirements which are increasing every year.

GM and Ford were planning on US battery production to overcome this at least partially. The plans have been delayed or scaled back.

 

[jgman]

Typically it would be based on income in the year you by the vehicle IDK what happens when you get the credit payment at the time of sale. You probably have to pay it back at tax time if you don't qualify http. The dealer submits a form with your ss number

www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

You know that the 150 k limit is for single filers, right?

ok thanks. Wasn't sure how they would verify your current income but it sounds like you would just self certify and than pay back rebate if you dont meet.

 

[jgman]

Some lease deals for EVs now.

https://insideevs.com/features/410039/best-electric-car-deals-this-month/

I would say they're comparable to my last two leases.

Of course depends on dealer, sales tax, local market, etc.

But you can amortize the down payment and pay higher monthly payment but avoid the big cash up front.


I would say it's more competitive than the situation I saw back in December 2021 when I leased my current car.

So hopefully when I'm in the market again a year from now, there will be more EV choices and favorable promotions.

OTOH, a lot of these EVs are going to lose access to the full $7500 tax credit because of domestic-content requirements which are increasing every year.

I didn't see mileage requirements on the lease deals...maybe it doesn't apply to EVs.

Also, always heard it was a bad idea to put a down payment on a lease in case the car is totaled in an accident. Anyone know what the approx. monthly payment would be on a no down payment Model 3 Tesla lease?

 

[Midpack]

Well, it's apparent you haven't seen the interior in a new Bolt. It's quite nice and has a real cluster south of the steering wheel and a 10.5" screen blended into the center of the dash rather than sticking out like a sore thumb. It's attractive, functional and not as spartan as a Tesla. But, to each his own opinion!

Why argue, to each his/her own. There is no “right answer.”

I absolutely love the UI in my Tesla, but I realize there are many potential buyers that absolutely hate the “spartan” approach. It is radically different from legacy auto but after a few days getting used to it, it all makes perfect sense to me and millions of others. It’s kinda like your first smartphone, takes a few days but it becomes second nature then even preferable. Ask BlackBerry if you don’t believe that…

Tesla is going stalkless, even some diehard Tesla owners are going ballistic over that (many without understanding or trying it).

Some people embrace change, some want things to stay as they are, and everything in between.

 

[braumeister]

Interesting tidbit on Bloomberg today:

Electric vehicle inventories on US dealer lots reached a new high in December. With a 114-day supply, the bloated inventory of EVs is up from a 53-day supply a year ago and compares to 71-days worth of inventory for the overall auto industry. US consumers are apparently growing wary of EVs, balking at high prices and still-spotty charging infrastructure.

It will be interesting to see if this changes when the summer car buying season approaches.

 

[aja8888]

Interesting tidbit on Bloomberg today:


It will be interesting to see if this changes when the summer car buying season approaches.

We are also into the end of the year when car sales traditionally slow down. But, I have to believe the articles lately on the inadequate charging infrastructure (non-Tesla) have some people holding off on a EV.

Two friends of mine bought new Hyundai Santa Fe hybrids within the last few months rather than an EV..

 

[Midpack]

Interesting tidbit on Bloomberg today:

Electric vehicle inventories on US dealer lots reached a new high in December. With a 114-day supply, the bloated inventory of EVs is up from a 53-day supply a year ago and compares to 71-days worth of inventory for the overall auto industry. US consumers are apparently growing wary of EVs, balking at high prices and still-spotty charging infrastructure.

It will be interesting to see if this changes when the summer car buying season approaches.

Looking at each automaker answers the bigger question. Bloomberg is parroting what some automakers want reported to justify their issues.

Out of control inventory of some EVs does not necessarily mean EV sales have slowed, in fact they haven’t. It probably means some legacy automakers grossly over estimated the interest buyers would have in their products and produced too many units. It’s also well known most if not all legacy automakers lose money on their EV sales so selling fewer units helps their bottom line - for now. Ford, GM and others are putting the slowing EV demand message out there to “explain” their inventory issues, instead of acknowledging the poor acceptance of their EV offerings (so far, I hope they will improve).

Tesla sells way more EVs than all other brands combined in the US, and their sales volumes are also up. Tesla prices have fallen dramatically over the past year. Tesla inventories fluctuate over a much lower day range, nothing like the numbers above. The Tesla supercharger network is typically faster, way more reliable and available than all the other EV charging locations. So Tesla buyers are not “growing wary of EVs, balking at high prices and still-spotty charging infrastructure.” [You would think legacy auto might have developed a strategy re: charging stations. BTW, charging at home is way more convenient and way less expensive than retail charging stations - my 240V home charging system pays off in 10 months and I save over $500/yr vs buying gas compared to my Santa Fe Hybrid.]

Though many people think that the electric vehicle industry is slowing down, sales numbers in the United States alone say otherwise. Now that the third quarter of 2023 is behind us, let's check in on how the various automakers are doing.

According to sales data analyzed by InsideEVs, during Q3 the 19 brands we mention below sold roughly 130,000 all-electric vehicles. That represents a 98% year-over-year increase from 2022. This strong growth trend is expected to continue into next year.

https://insideevs.com/news/696944/us-ev-sales-q3-2023/

 

[perinova]

What if our income exceeds the 150k threshold in 2023 but will be below in 2024?

Not sure but I think you would be out of luck.
The other way around, you can limit income this year and use the rebates after filing your 1040.

 

[RetMD21]

Tesla's sales in 2023 are only up 37% with non-Tesla automakers up about 100%. Stlll more than 1,000,000 new BEV registrations this year. Sadly the Mach E and higher trim Lightnings are selling poorly and GM is discontinuing its most successful EV. https://insideevs.com/news/700626/us-bev-registrations-october-2023/

 

[aja8888]

Tesla's sales in 2023 are only up 37% with non-Tesla automakers up about 100%. Stlll more than 1,000,000 new BEV registrations this year. Sadly the Mach E and higher trim Lightnings are selling poorly and GM is discontinuing its most successful EV. https://insideevs.com/news/700626/us-bev-registrations-october-2023/

The Bolt will be back in 2025 with the new battery configuration (unless Mary Berra changes her mind AGAIN). GM is using the Bolt assembly plant to make the electric Silverado pickup truck.

 

[REWahoo]

The Bolt will be back in 2025 with the new battery configuration (unless Mary Berra changes her mind AGAIN). GM is using the Bolt assembly plant to make the electric Silverado pickup truck.

+1

GM says the 2025 Bolt will be the EUV version only, they will no longer produce the smaller EV model.

... only the Chevy Bolt EUV will return in 2025, and it will contain the Ultium battery architecture. The next-generation EUV will also feature several updates, including the fast-charging NACS (Tesla) port, advanced Ultium battery chemistry, and updated software. As a whole package, the Bolt EUV should provide comparatively increased range, speedier charging times, and improved efficiency.

 

[Midpack]

Tesla's sales in 2023 are only up 37% with non-Tesla automakers up about 100%. Stlll more than 1,000,000 new BEV registrations this year. Sadly the Mach E and higher trim Lightnings are selling poorly and GM is discontinuing its most successful EV. https://insideevs.com/news/700626/us-bev-registrations-october-2023/

Again, funny how there are so many recent reports about falling EV demand. Legacy automakers PR nonsense - they couldn’t report

EV sales are up considerably but we got ahead of ourselves and produced way too many cars, we’re not good at planning after a century in business…

 

[RetMD21]

......
EV sales are up considerably but we got ahead of ourselves and produced way too many cars, we’re not good at planning after a century in business…

I imagine that's not how they would phrase it. I hope there is a market for electric pickups. IMO it isn't clear at this point.

Should there be a separate thread for the EV business. This one has strayed a bit from models. It would be a shame for it to be shut down.

 

[perinova]

But that would be an estimate at best. I'm sure the income used to qualify would have to be from the same year the vehicle was purchased.

If we are talking about the state of california rebate, they will pull your most recent transcript of tax filing, using form 4506-C, therefore using previous year income.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en/requirements/3232

 

[Golden Mean]

Picked up a 2022 Leaf SV yesterday from Carvana. 6400 miles.

So far it's great; heated seats, Android auto, climate control can be scheduled to turn on (typically while charging cable is plugged in). Got it for $19.5k - $12k for my 2014 Elantra. I bought the Elantra for $14k in 2016 so I feel like I got a screamin' deal.

Plan is to just use 12A/110V charging since I drive maybe 15 miles a week. Basically it's just a big golf cart to me!

 

[RetMD21]

Picked up a 2022 Leaf SV yesterday from Carvana. 6400 miles.

So far it's great; heated seats, Android auto, climate control can be scheduled to turn on (typically while charging cable is plugged in). Got it for $19.5k - $12k for my 2014 Elantra. I bought the Elantra for $14k in 2016 so I feel like I got a screamin' deal.

Plan is to just use 12A/110V charging since I drive maybe 15 miles a week. Basically it's just a big golf cart to me!

Sounds like a good exchange to me. I'm using 110 for charging with my Model Y. I have short drives most days and it's not a problem if it takes longer to recharge to the target after a longer drive.

 

[ERD50]

... Out of control inventory of some EVs does not necessarily mean EV sales have slowed, in fact they haven’t. ....

Very good point. I admit, when I saw that about inventory, my mind did assume that meant poor sales. But as you say, inventory and sales, while often related, don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. Production/supply are one part, and sales/demand the other.

-ERD50

 

[Golden Mean]

Sounds like a good exchange to me. I'm using 110 for charging with my Model Y. I have short drives most days and it's not a problem if it takes longer to recharge to the target after a longer drive.

Thanks!
It looks like my garage has 12GA/20A wiring, breakers and plugs. So my plan is to eventually get a 16A charger and use that for home charging. Should give me another mile per hour charging. I'll keep the Nissan 12A charger in the car for backup.

 

[RetMD21]

Thanks!
It looks like my garage has 12GA/20A wiring, breakers and plugs. So my plan is to eventually get a 16A charger and use that for home charging. Should give me another mile per hour charging. I'll keep the Nissan 12A charger in the car for backup.

I had been changing for 6 weeks before the 20 amp possibility occurred to me. Unfortunately when I checked it was just 15 amp.

I'm sure i'll upgrade to 240 V eventually. My electric dryer shares a wall with the garage so it is a little tempting to rig something up with one of those socket splitters.

 

[Midpack]

I had been changing for 6 weeks before the 20 amp possibility occurred to me. Unfortunately when I checked it was just 15 amp.

I'm sure i'll upgrade to 240 V eventually. My electric dryer shares a wall with the garage so it is a little tempting to rig something up with one of those socket splitters.

It can be done, but there are some real no-no’s. You don’t want to plug/unplug often and if you get a splitter the same will apply if you don’t buy a commercial grade splitter. And you’ll have to limit amperage to 80% of that circuits rating or you could have an outlet meltdown or worse. You probably can’t upgrade the breaker without upgrading the wiring gauge.

I just had a 50 amp circuit added with a commercial grade 14-50 outlet and 6 AWG copper wiring and I charge at 32 amps - so I don’t have to worry.

Should you charge your EV from your 240-volt home outlet?

Is it a good idea to plug your electric car into a dryer outlet? Not always. Dryers are not meant to be plugged and unplugged, so swapping from your car to this appliance repeatedly may cause some damage.

What’s more, the 240-volt outlet in your garage may be a 30, 40, or even 50 amps depending on its intended use. You’ll have to make certain your EV charger can handle its amperage.

What’s more, the 240-volt outlet in your garage may be a 30, 40, or even 50 amps depending on its intended use. You’ll have to make certain your EV charger can handle its amperage.

 

[RetMD21]

It can be done, but there are some real no-no’s. You don’t want to plug/unplug often and if you get a splitter the same will apply if you don’t buy a commercial grade splitter. And you’ll have to limit amperage to 80% of that circuits rating or you could have an outlet meltdown or worse. You probably can’t upgrade the breaker without upgrading the wiring gauge.

I just had a 50 amp circuit added with a commercial grade 14-50 outlet and 6 AWG copper wiring and I charge at 32 amps - so I don’t have to worry.

That's why haven't moved forward with the cheap but somewhat sketchy solution. I am looking at solar charging but this is going to be limited more by the number of panels than the EV outlet.

 

[aja8888]

That's why haven't moved forward with the cheap but somewhat sketchy solution. I am looking at solar charging but this is going to be limited more by the number of panels than the EV outlet.

The best solution is a new 240 volt dedicated line into your charging area (mine's the garage) and a good charger. (Thank you GM and Entergy Texas for making this cost free to me)

 

[ncbill]

I had been changing for 6 weeks before the 20 amp possibility occurred to me. Unfortunately when I checked it was just 15 amp.

I'm sure i'll upgrade to 240 V eventually. My electric dryer shares a wall with the garage so it is a little tempting to rig something up with one of those socket splitters.

You need to use a smart splitter to stay code compliant, e.g.:

NeoCharge Smart Splitter 240V - Unlock Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging with Dryer, UL Certified, Auto-Switching, Avoid Panel Upgrades/Rewiring, Save Thousands

or

Splitvolt 24 Amp Splitter Switch - Save Thousands on Home Electric Vehicle Charging (EV) Install

I'd probably pick the latter.

I'd be constrained to 24A continuous charging on my 30A electric dryer circuit.

But adding one of the above & punching a hole through the wall to mount an outdoor-rated, commercial-grade 240VAC socket would still be a whole lot cheaper than upgrading my 100A panel to 200A and adding a dedicated 240VAC circuit simply for charging EVs.

 

[aja8888]

New GM EV Blazer announced for 2024

here you go, build your own!:

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/blazer-ev/build-and-price/trims

Moderately equipped, RWD, one option package (RS model) ends up around $62+ K. Ugh! I'm glad I bought my 2023 Bolt EUV with all the options for just over 1/2 this cost.

Blazer has est 324 miles range and weighs in at 6,600 pounds.