EV to ICE or Hybrid

[ken830]

I've heard you can charge just by being towed. Maybe you have to push the brake pedal down to get the max charging (not so far to grind off the pads.)

It's just regen. For a Tesla, you just keep your foot off the throttle pedal for full regen. You can press it a bit to reduce the regen and reduce the strain/load on the "pushing/pulling" vehicle. Would also work if you are stranded at the top of a hill, you can regen your way down. Same mechanism.

 

[NW-Bound]

Back in the day, when I got a new (different car) I would let it get very low on gas and then buy a gallon of gas in a gas can. I'd then drive normally until the car died from fuel exhaustion. At that point, I noted exactly on the gas gauge where "true empty was."

Now of days, that's a bad way to go as you can damage your fuel pump which may require being bathed in gasoline to keep cool. Ah, the good old days.

I was not daring enough to do that, in fear of having the car dying in the middle of the street.

Instead, I refilled when it got low (nowadays a warning light would turn on), then noticed how many gallons it took to refill the tank to the rim. The difference between that and the official capacity of the tank is the low level of the tank. Should be good enough.

 

[Koolau]

I guess you missed my several posts where I said I would get an EV, even a shorter range one, if I were still working and commuting.

And there was a time when I drove 50 mi one way to work. In a car with 13 mpg, many years ago. Lots of money I would save with an EV.

But we were talking earlier about road trips, a different thing altogether. And when I am on a road trip, I want to minimize the things that I have to worry about. It takes away from the fun, the freedom to go where I want to go at the spur of the moment, to take an unplanned detour.

Also, all of my road trips in recent years were with a motorhome towing a car. It's a different kind of travel altogether, particularly boondocking in Alaska.

Hey, you could tow a Tesla and leave the drive wheels on the road to charge it! (Probably need some extra gas for the Motorhome, but you probably wouldn't notice the difference between 9 and 10 mpg.)

 

[Koolau]

I was not daring enough to do that, in fear of having the car dying in the middle of the street.

Instead, I refilled when it got low (nowadays a warning light would turn on), then noticed how many gallons it took to refill the tank to the rim. The difference between that and the official capacity of the tank is the low level of the tank. Should be good enough.

I always had a plan for when I ran out of gas (do not do the experiment on a Friday afternoon commute - more like a Sunday drive after Church AWAY from restaurant row.)


I also found out the "official capacity" was off by at least a half gallon if not a full gallon. Having an extra gallon of fuel at 25+ mpg was a life-saver back in the day. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

Yeah, I drove my ICE across Nevada years ago. There were a couple of times I was glad I'd squeezed every last drop into the tank at the last stop. That's a long way to go without having a gas station. With a limited range EV, I would think it fool hearty to start crossing Nevada at 80% charge. But, YMMV.

In one RV trip, I drove south from Twin Falls, ID down to Las Vegas. Just now look on Plugshare, and the distance between superchargers in Wells and Las Vegas is about 400 miles.

However, there are 50 kW chargers in Ely, the half-way point. And that's also where we took a midday rest in said RV trip, with the motorhome+car parked right besides the town square, enjoying the tree shades.

I underestimated the distance, and took off too late from Ely to make it to Las Vegas before night fall, and had to sleep with the motorhome parked at an abandoned gas station by the roadside.

Ah, one of the many memories of our RV wandering trips, that took us as far as Alaska and to Nova Scotia.

 

[Koolau]

In one RV trip, I drove south from Twin Falls, ID down to Las Vegas. Just now look on Plugshare, and the distance between superchargers in Wells and Las Vegas is about 400 miles.

However, there are 50 kW chargers in Ely, the half-way point. And that's also where we took a midday rest in said RV trip, with the motorhome+car parked right besides the town square, enjoying the tree shades.

I underestimated the distance, and took off too late from Ely to make it to Las Vegas before night fall, and had to sleep with the motorhome parked at an abandoned gas station by the roadside.

Ah, one of the many memories of our RV wandering trips, that took us to Alaska and to Nova Scotia.

Off topic, but were you ever hassled for pulling over (off road, of course) to use the motor home for sleep? I was in an interstate rest stop (big sign - no over night camping.) I was wasted from driving and slept for a couple of hours when some rent-a-cop pounded on the window and said I had to leave. There were maybe 15 cars parked in a 50 car lot. Some guys just gotta have their power - like the little guys out front of our airport with the whistles. But, that's really off topic and for another rant.

 

[NW-Bound]

A brief answer: No.

Back on traveling across Nevada, I have not traveled on the "Loneliest Road in America", but looked on Plugshare out of curiosity.

Between the superchargers in Scipio, UT and Fallon, NV is 452 miles of the aforementioned Loneliest Road. However, you can still make it in an EV, because the route passes through Ely which I mentioned earlier, and also a couple of other towns with 50 kW chargers. So, if you do not insist on supercharging, you can go places.

I have not been to Fallon, NV, but remember Scipio, UT, because in one trip I took Route 50 to cut from I-70 to I-15, and Route 50 went through Scipio.

There was nothing in Scipio, yet it had superchargers there. Plugshare says it's Electrify America, and located at a Flying J. Scipio has a population of 290, and perhaps 1/2 the people work at Flying J, and the other 1/2 are non-working family members.


PS. YIKES! These 50 kW chargers on the Loneliest Road charge $0.79/kWh. Others charge $5 fixed fee + $0.50/kWh.

 

[NW-Bound]

Looking at the map to reminisce about my past RV trips, I recall one time driving from Caldwell, ID, to Missoula, MT, via Grangeville, ID.

This route retraced part of the Lewis and Clark expedition path, and the scenery from Grangeville to Missoula was beautiful. I recall telling myself that I was just driving through, but should come back to spend some time. Probably never have the chance now.

I looked on Plugshare, and there are no chargers of any speed along this 370 mile route. I guess this road is not popular enough for anyone to bother.

PS. Perhaps one can spend a night midway and charge at the lodging, even if it's Level 1?

 

[Ronstar]

Looking at the map to reminisce about my past RV trips, I recall one time driving from Caldwell, ID, to Missoula, MT, via Grangeville, ID.

This route retraced part of the Lewis and Clark expedition path, and the scenery from Grangeville to Missoula was beautiful. I recall telling myself that I was just driving through, but should come back to spend some time. Probably never have the chance now.

I looked on Plugshare, and there are no chargers of any speed along this 370 mile route. I guess this road is not popular enough for anyone to bother.

PS. Perhaps one can spend a night midway and charge at the lodging, even if it's Level 1?

Nothing around Capital Reef, Bryce and Zion NP's either

 

[NW-Bound]

Nothing around Capital Reef, Bryce and Zion NP's either

I looked just now. There are slow 16-kW chargers at lodgings in the above areas. It makes sense, because the lodgings want to accommodate guests.

So, it's doable if you stay for a night or two, and not if you do day trip or hit-and-run.

 

[ken830]

50kW is comparatively slow, but it's not that bad if it's only used occasionally or in a pinch. Assuming there're no technical problems, you're pretty much guaranteed to stay at 50kW for the entire charge session up to around to ~90% state of charge on most vehicles. So, it's not 5 or 7 times longer than a 250kW or 350kW charger for most vehicles assuming battery capacity around 70kWh. And it's perfectly tolerable as a meal stop.

 

[Koolau]

I looked just now. There are slow 16-kW chargers at lodgings in the above areas. It makes sense, because the lodgings want to accommodate guests.

So, it's doable if you stay for a night or two, and not if you do day trip or hit-and-run.

I suppose if those slow chargers can give you enough miles to make it to the next supercharger, it might be alright. But that's kinda pushing it. I can imagine setting everything up before sleeping, the electrons are flowing and you turn in. You wake refreshed the next morning and find your 16-kW failed just after you went to sleep. Blown breaker, bad connection, lousy wires? Who knows. But now you have to find a way to get your battery up enough to make the next charger. Not a fun time.

I may have mentioned that I was riding with a guy and we were within 15 miles of home. The car started to sputter and we looked at an empty gas gauge.

I said "There's a little gas station on the right, just ahead. Steer the car left and right and you might get enough gas into the pick up to make it." Sure enough, it w*rked. We pulled into the rural gas station. THEY were out of gas!

Fortunately, my dad was able to get us a gallon of gas to make it home (no cell phones, but the gas station - which was also a residence let us use the phone.) I think it was 8PM and dark. Got lucky.

 

[Ronstar]

I looked just now. There are slow 16-kW chargers at lodgings in the above areas. It makes sense, because the lodgings want to accommodate guests.

So, it's doable if you stay for a night or two, and not if you do day trip or hit-and-run.

Oh I get it now. I didn't have the app set for low enough kw's.

 

[NW-Bound]

I suppose if those slow chargers can give you enough miles to make it to the next supercharger, it might be alright. But that's kinda pushing it. I can imagine setting everything up before sleeping, the electrons are flowing and you turn in. You wake refreshed the next morning and find your 16-kW failed just after you went to sleep. Blown breaker, bad connection, lousy wires? Who knows. But now you have to find a way to get your battery up enough to make the next charger. Not a fun time...

So, you hang out at the lodging for one more day. If their charger breaks, perhaps spend another night at a different lodging with a working charger.

You get wined and dined, even if it's on your own penny. It's a bit of inconvenience, but you are not really stranded. Much better than getting stranded at an airport, for example.

Hah, there's so much risk in travel, no wonder some people don't leave home at all.

 

[Koolau]

So, you hang out at the lodging for one more day. If their charger breaks, perhaps spend another night at a different lodging with a working charger.

You get wined and dined, even if it's on your own penny. It's a bit of inconvenience, but you are not really stranded. Much better than getting stranded at an airport, for example.

Hah, there's so much risk in travel, no wonder some people don't leave home at all.

Yeah, you gotta admit that any vehicle (including ICE) can strand you. It's not just EVs when they run out of juice. ICE are so complex, it seems a miracle they do as well as they do about running for 200,000 miles with few serious breakdowns.

 

[aja8888]

Yeah, you gotta admit that any vehicle (including ICE) can strand you. It's not just EVs when they run out of juice. ICE are so complex, it seems a miracle they do as well as they do about running for 200,000 miles with few serious breakdowns.

Manufacturers' got pretty good at increasing reliability and longevity after making hundreds of millions of them during the last 120+ years. Engines and transmissions are pretty bulletproof with minimal care and normal use. It's kind of a "no brainer"....

 

[ERD50]

Back in the day, when I got a new (different car) I would let it get very low on gas and then buy a gallon of gas in a gas can. I'd then drive normally until the car died from fuel exhaustion. At that point, I noted exactly on the gas gauge where "true empty was."

Now of days, that's a bad way to go as you can damage your fuel pump which may require being bathed in gasoline to keep cool. Ah, the good old days.

I'm skeptical of that. I know you can find all sorts of agreement on the internet, but I have yet to find any solid evidence.

True, the fuel pump is cooled by the gasoline, but I think the fuel pump is covered sufficiently in even a near empty tank. And remember, to avoid picking up sediment/water, the inlet sits a bit above the bottom anyhow.

And warranty wise, it just seems too risky/costly for the mfg to have such a marginal design. I'm not buying it. I don't recall ever seeing anything in the owners manual regarding this - if it was a problem, I'm sure they'd recommend avoiding it.

But I'd love to be proven wrong! (edit/add): I'm talking about running LOW, not completely running out and running the pump dry. IIRC, pumps run more/less continuously, to circulate fuel which helps avoid vapor lock (which seems to be a thing of the past - so it works?), so *maybe*, if you didn't turn off the ignition after running out of gas, the pump *might* continue to run dry, and *maybe* that could cause it to overheat and shorten its life? But I'm guessing it would somehow know the engine wasn't running, and shut off. And that's way different from running low ( a few gallons left before fill up)

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

Might be lucky... when we were there the cell service was sketchy....

I've driven stretches of road in Colorado that had no cell service for 45 minutes. This was less than two years ago.

 

[ncbill]

Manufacturers' got pretty good at increasing reliability and longevity after making hundreds of millions of them during the last 120+ years. Engines and transmissions are pretty bulletproof with minimal care and normal use. It's kind of a "no brainer"....

CVT not so much.

The third party ones (cough...*JATCO*...cough) have not proven as reliable as the ones developed in-house by the automakers themselves.

One kid just purchased a popular brand vehicle which uses JATCO CVTs.

Still in the 3/36 warranty so they also bought an OEM extended warranty that covers the electronics (~12" screen!) & powertrain.

 

[Koolau]

I'm skeptical of that. I know you can find all sorts of agreement on the internet, but I have yet to find any solid evidence.

True, the fuel pump is cooled by the gasoline, but I think the fuel pump is covered sufficiently in even a near empty tank. And remember, to avoid picking up sediment/water, the inlet sits a bit above the bottom anyhow.

And warranty wise, it just seems too risky/costly for the mfg to have such a marginal design. I'm not buying it. I don't recall ever seeing anything in the owners manual regarding this - if it was a problem, I'm sure they'd recommend avoiding it.

But I'd love to be proven wrong! (edit/add): I'm talking about running LOW, not completely running out and running the pump dry. IIRC, pumps run more/less continuously, to circulate fuel which helps avoid vapor lock (which seems to be a thing of the past - so it works?), so *maybe*, if you didn't turn off the ignition after running out of gas, the pump *might* continue to run dry, and *maybe* that could cause it to overheat and shorten its life? But I'm guessing it would somehow know the engine wasn't running, and shut off. And that's way different from running low ( a few gallons left before fill up)

-ERD50

You may be correct. I'm going by what virtually every mechanic has told me: Don't drive with a low fuel level - it's bad for your fuel pump. YMMV

 

[Texas Proud]

You may be correct. I'm going by what virtually every mechanic has told me: Don't drive with a low fuel level - it's bad for your fuel pump. YMMV

BUT.... almost all of them also say to change your oil every 3 months (maybe 6) or 3,000 miles and that is no longer true...


My Pilot has an oil minder and I get anywhere between 7,000 and 8,500 miles before it says I need to change oil... and I have started to use synthetic which would last longer but I do not think it takes what kind of oil into consideration...

 

[ls99]

In tank fuel pumps have the fuel flow through them. Thus most of the cooling takes place within the pump. The external bathing in fuel is minimal for thermal conductivity.

 

[Koolau]

BUT.... almost all of them also say to change your oil every 3 months (maybe 6) or 3,000 miles and that is no longer true...


My Pilot has an oil minder and I get anywhere between 7,000 and 8,500 miles before it says I need to change oil... and I have started to use synthetic which would last longer but I do not think it takes what kind of oil into consideration...

Yeah, any mechanic I've spoken to about oil says "go by the book." YMMV

 

[aja8888]

Yeah, any mechanic I've spoken to about oil says "go by the book." YMMV

Well, you can always go by the best oil recommendations. When I was driving diesels, I would change oil every 15,000 miles and send a test sample for analysis to Blackstone labs in Indiana for analysis.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/signature-series-5w-30-synthetic-motor-oil-asl/?code=ASLQT-EA

A New Level of Motor Oil Technology
75% more engine protection against horsepower loss and wear.1
50% more cleaning power vs. AMSOIL OE Motor Oil
Protects turbochargers 72% better than required2 by the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification.
28% more acid-neutralizing power than Mobil 1.3
Trusted by professional engine builders
Guaranteed protection for up to 25,000 miles or 1 year

Here's the diesel oil:

https://www.amsoil.com/c/diesel-engine-oil/5/

 

[ERD50]

Well, you can always go by the best oil recommendations. When I was driving diesels, I would change oil every 15,000 miles and send a test sample for analysis to Blackstone labs in Indiana for analysis.

...

I knew someone with a small fleet of diesel trucks for their business. These things had large oil reserves, so an oil change was big bucks. He'd send the oil in for testing, and found he could really stretch the oil change interval (I think the trucks had hour meters on them, rather than go by miles, since they'd spend time idling at the job?) before the tests started indicating the oil was losing effectiveness (contaminants, viscosity, acidity, etc).

-ERD50