EV to ICE or Hybrid

[ken830]

There's no need for EV mandates. EV mandates will only result in bad EVs, which gives consumers a bad experience, which in turn slow down the EV transition. We saw this play out with compliance EVs.

 

[Koolau]

While this factor does play a role in why I won’t go back to a gas car, a bigger one is that I absolutely hate pumping gas in a storm, or worse yet, a blizzard.

Heh, heh, did I ever tell ya 'bout the Costco Gas on Alakawa St.? Windy enough to blow all the vapors away. Rarely smell the stuff. We rarely have lightening. We NEVER have blizzards (except on top of volcanoes.) Perfect for pumping gas - except the price!

 

[ncbill]

Hmmm. Each of those cords would be worth one or maybe two hits of meth where I live. I give them about 2 minutes of charging time before they are stolen. I guess the good news is that (until people wise up) you ought to be able to pick up a "used" cord for $10.

IIRC, in Europe you provide your own cable versus permanently attached cables (often too short!) we're stuck with here in the USA.

 

[Alan]

Hmmm. Each of those cords would be worth one or maybe two hits of meth where I live. I give them about 2 minutes of charging time before they are stolen. I guess the good news is that (until people wise up) you ought to be able to pick up a "used" cord for $10.

If these cables are like the ones on our car then when you plug it into the car it locks pretty solid and can't be removed without either pressing a button inside the car or using the special button on the remote, which is what I do. So, to steal that cable requires one to break into the car AFAIK. Even when plugged in at home the cable locks itself into the car even while waiting for the scheduled overnight charge to begin.

 

[NW-Bound]

Earlier in the thread, I shared some interesting statistics that show that China has an amazing low ratio of EVs per charging point, while Norway has a much higher ratio of EVs per charging point.

I suggested that most Norwegians who have cars live outside of the cities, are home owners, thus can charge at home, like most Americans do. I still have not found any statistics to prove my surmise, but here's something interesting about China and its EVs.

I just saw some info regarding China's EV situations. As can be easily seen, the majority of Chinese car owners live in the cities and in high-rise buildings. So, of course they have to use public chargers.

The source I saw said many chargers in China were installed haphazardly and in inconvenient locations. Many are also in disrepair. Companies installing them have been losing money, and are suspected of colluding to raise prices to as much as 2x overnight.

Adding to the trouble is the lack of electric supply. To prevent blackouts, some cities have restricted power available to the public chargers, rendering many stalls inoperative. In Sichuan, China news told the story of a taxi driver who queued up from 9PM until the next morning before he could get his car charged.

 

[Car-Guy]

I saw this clip on Fox this morning and thought it was appropriate to share on this thread. Not a happy camper with his new Ford Lighting.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/technol...y-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

 

[Zathras]

I saw this clip on Fox this morning and thought it was appropriate to share on this thread. Not a happy camper with his new Ford Lighting.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/technol...y-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

So did the man in the article swear off BEVs? Or FORDs?

Looks as if the guy didn’t mind overpaying, spending more than he needed on setting up chargers, and didn’t do any due diligence.
I feel bad for him. A bit of planning or research would have done wonders for his experience.

 

[freedomatlast]

Acquaintance traded his Tesla 3 performance for a BMW M2. No plans for another EV anytime soon.

 

[Car-Guy]

I feel bad for him. A bit of planning or research would have done wonders for his experience.

Not sure how much research he did before buying, but I think he'd agree with you based on his comments below.

"Bala told FOX Business he believes the government needs to do more to "provide consumers with the right information."
"People have to make the right choices. I want to tell everybody to read my story," he said. "Do your research before even thinking about it and make a wiser choice."

 

[ls99]

Paying for all the charging stuff at home and at work is extra $$$ above the cost of the truck. Then he is expected to do all sorts of research and planning beyond what an ICE vehicle needs for a relatively straigtforward trip. Absurdity cubed.

 

[Ronstar]

So did the man in the article swear off BEVs? Or FORDs?

Probably both. But certainly BEV’s. He parked the EV and rented an ICE to finish his trip.

His complaints were mostly EV related charging issues. He most likely wouldn’t have had a gripe with Ford if he had bought an iCE F150, since his problems with Ford stemmed from buying an EV.

 

[ken830]

Non-Tesla charging infrastructure is really lacking. Most non-Tesla chargers have horrendous up-time and very limited number of stalls. Having to use some low-power 50kW chargers really adds to the charging time. And the limited range of the Lightning coupled with sparse number of charger locations means a lot of deep full-charges, which take excessive amount time. Even if everything worked and he encountered no lines, it would've taken him an extra four-and-a-half hours of charging through that route.

A Model X along the same route (through Fargo) would only be 3 charging stops of under 30-40 minutes each, saving about 3 hours each direction.

 

[Montecfo]

^^^

Of course if you really want to save time, do the trip in a hybrid. Probably saves another hour or two.

 

[Texas Proud]

Concerning China....


We were there many years ago and there were a LOT of battery scooters and bikes... walking down the street you could see them plugged in all over the place... seemed that they just daisy chained them without caring about load...


I bet that people are just plugging in wherever they can find a plug.. who cares who owns it...

 

[ken830]

^^^

Of course if you really want to save time, do the trip in a hybrid. Probably saves another hour or two.

Yes, with today's infrastructure, it would be faster with a hybrid in general. Total charging time is about one-and-a-half, so saving one hour is probably the limit, not two.

EDIT: Driving significantly faster than the speed limit would allow you to save closer to (or beyond) two hours, as differences in refueling speed will be amplified as both types of vehicles are operating at much lower efficiency.

 

[NW-Bound]

Concerning China....

We were there many years ago and there were a LOT of battery scooters and bikes... walking down the street you could see them plugged in all over the place... seemed that they just daisy chained them without caring about load...

I bet that people are just plugging in wherever they can find a plug.. who cares who owns it...

No, not anymore. China is cracking down on ebikes and scooters. There are YouTube videos showing the police stopping bikers on the streets and confiscating their bikes. In some cities, people demonstrated outside police station. And some government officials said publicly that people should be driving EVs instead. Talk about letting them eat cake!

In Guangzhou, young people are now riding electric wheelchairs to go to work. There's no law against that yet.

A lot of weird things happens only in China.

 

[ls99]

Non-Tesla charging infrastructure is really lacking. Most non-Tesla chargers have horrendous up-time and very limited number of stalls. Having to use some low-power 50kW chargers really adds to the charging time. And the limited range of the Lightning coupled with sparse number of charger locations means a lot of deep full-charges, which take excessive amount time. Even if everything worked and he encountered no lines, it would've taken him an extra four-and-a-half hours of charging through that route.

A Model X along the same route (through Fargo) would only be 3 charging stops of under 30-40 minutes each, saving about 3 hours each direction.

Irrelevant what a tesla would have done. The guy bought a pickup truck for use.

 

[ken830]

Irrelevant what a tesla would have done. The guy bought a pickup truck for use.

Obviously. I'm just trying to illustrate that the infrastructure was the root of his issues. Next year, when the Ford Lightning (and Cybertruck) can both charge on the Tesla Supercharger network, he would be able to complete that same trip -- and in less time than the ideal time on the non-Tesla charger network..

 

[Montecfo]

Yes, with today's infrastructure, it would be faster with a hybrid in general. Total charging time is about one-and-a-half, so saving one hour is probably the limit, not two.

EDIT: Driving significantly faster than the speed limit would allow you to save closer to (or beyond) two hours, as differences in refueling speed will be amplified as both types of vehicles are operating at much lower efficiency.

Probably takes 5 minutes to refuel. It is probably one less stop. And you can take the best/fastest route without worrying about where you can charge. So yes, 1-2 hours range saved.

 

[Ronstar]

Obviously. I'm just trying to illustrate that the infrastructure was the root of his issues. Next year, when the Ford Lightning (and Cybertruck) can both charge on the Tesla Supercharger network, he would be able to complete that same trip -- and in less time than the ideal time on the non-Tesla charger network..

Definitely infrastructure was the root of his issues. This guy went to 2 chargers that were faulty and 1 where the cost to charge was more $ than it would have cost him for a similar range worth of gas.

And while I suspect that things will be better for Ford Lightning owners if and when they can charge on the Tesla Superchargers, I am still skeptical that the charging infrastructure will be up to the task - especially in remote places.

As far as I know, there are no charging locations near me. A nearby town created a public parking lot and designated a parking spot for EV's. With a concrete base for a charger(still no charger after several months). And the town put a picnic table in the EV parking spot. This is 50 miles from Chicago. The infrastructure has a long way to go IMO.

 

[Zathras]

Probably both. But certainly BEV’s. He parked the EV and rented an ICE to finish his trip.

His complaints were mostly EV related charging issues. He most likely wouldn’t have had a gripe with Ford if he had bought an iCE F150, since his problems with Ford stemmed from buying an EV.

I think his biggest complaint was the 6 month repair delay, which is not EV related.
As for the others, a very casual bit of research would have told him range will change based on towing, speed, temperature. All of which are true with ICE vehicles as well.
Surely he knew refueling an EV was different than refueling an ICE vehicle.

Also, if he had been driving a Tesla, charging on the trip would have been far smoother.

I would suggest his issues were more FORD related than EV related.

 

[Zathras]

Definitely infrastructure was the root of his issues. This guy went to 2 chargers that were faulty and 1 where the cost to charge was more $ than it would have cost him for a similar range worth of gas.

And while I suspect that things will be better for Ford Lightning owners if and when they can charge on the Tesla Superchargers, I am still skeptical that the charging infrastructure will be up to the task - especially in remote places.

As far as I know, there are no charging locations near me. A nearby town created a public parking lot and designated a parking spot for EV's. With a concrete base for a charger(still no charger after several months). And the town put a picnic table in the EV parking spot. This is 50 miles from Chicago. The infrastructure has a long way to go IMO.

There are lots of Tesla chargers around Chicago.
If you are interested, you can check on the numbers here: https://supercharge.info/map
The only direction without a supercharger is the lake

I do agree the charging infrastructure needs to continue to grow. But in most areas, the chargers are in place for travel. Multi-housing units are the weak point IMO.

 

[Ronstar]

^^ thanks for the link. I'm 20 miles from the nearest supercharger. I know that wouldn't matter because I could just mostly charge at home if I had an EV. But Joliet Il has 150,000 people 40 miles from Chicago and has 0 superchargers. That's ridiculous.

I agree - multi housing units are the weak point. And even if they develop a parking lot type charging system, snow and ice will freeze the cables to the pavement, etc. It will be a mess in the winter.

 

[Texas Proud]

No, not anymore. China is cracking down on ebikes and scooters. There are YouTube videos showing the police stopping bikers on the streets and confiscating their bikes. In some cities, people demonstrated outside police station. And some government officials said publicly that people should be driving EVs instead. Talk about letting them eat cake!

In Guangzhou, young people are now riding electric wheelchairs to go to work. There's no law against that yet.

A lot of weird things happens only in China.

Interesting... as I said it was many years ago... but I agree that it seems stupid

 

[NW-Bound]

Talk about EV chargers in the US, I just browsed to "plugshare.com" to see its latest map. I then zoomed in to certain areas, and panned around to see the distribution of the chargers.

There are many chargers in CA. But in other Western states, there are stretches of highways with chargers spaced more than 100 miles from each other. And if you set the filter to show only chargers with 100+kW to screen out 50 kW chargers, you will see large areas devoid of high-speed chargers.

A 50 kW charger will give you perhaps 75 mi in 1/2 hour of charging, while with 100 kW, you can get 150 mi of range in 1/2 hour.

There are big areas of Nevada, Utah, Idaho, and Montana devoid of high-speed chargers. EV owners would do well to stay away from these areas. And even if there are a few, if one is not lucky, he may be queuing behind other EV owners.