GM suspends 401(k) match for salaried employees

[SteveR]

Geeez people.  Give it a rest.   :

Let's recap.  

1. Corporations are evil because they are in business to make a profit and share this with stockholders.  

This would be the driving force for most of the people either in retirement or wanting to be someday.  If you are looking for total equality in all things and a world where business is run for fun and not profit and where government is always run to suit your personal view of the world then I would suggest you are living in a fairly tale.


2. Government is evil because they create debt that is purchased by a variety of sources and then pays them for the use of the money in interest.  

Last time I looked bonds represented a pretty big portion of the "model" portfolio to balance out swings in the economy.  If it were not for debt by the governement there would be no need to issue these bonds.  They could just tax you for the money and that would generate a negative income stream instead of a positive one you could live on for additional income.


3. Companies are evil because they do not keep their promises, i.e., pensions, birthday cards, vacation policies, etc.

I believe if you look at the text of your pension plan documents it will say that future company conditions may require changes to the plan.  I am not pleased with companies defaulting on their defined benefit plans because it shows a lack of adequate planning and inadequate fiscal management on their part.  

I wish the world was perfect but it is run by people and that makes it imperfect.  As long as money and power are the rewards for being successful in the system, the system will be motivated by these two drivers.  That is the basis for our system.  Our duty is to watch the leaders and the media and keep them as honest as we can.  

Vote with your wallet for companies that meet your expectations for environmental and personnel issues.  That is the basis of our free economy.

Vote for who you believe will do what you believe in.  Just don't be too disappointed when they sometimes do things that you don't agree with.  

4. As for the Hitler comment; I will refrain from my planned tirad about making such highly emotional and grossly incorrect comparrisons.  Read your history about this era in the world again and talk to someone who actually lived during that time in Germany.  I believe it will become evident that you are mistaken.  

 

[wildcat]

Nice post SteveR. I am going back to my Utopian society now Let me know when things really change.

 

[REWahoo]

This thread has "evloved" to the Hitler reference. According to The Laws of Forum Threadom, this discussion is nearing the end point.

Now, if we can just figure out how to work Hitler into the salmon thread...

 

[Marketneutral]

A leader like Hilter being able to be elected.   What could have brought this about?

1.       Long-term bitterness

2.       Ineffective Constitution

3.       Money - The financial support of wealthy businessmen.

4.       Propaganda

5.       Programme - Hitler promised everybody something.

6.       Attacks on other parties

7.       Economic Depression - After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the US called in its loans to Germany, and the German economy collapsed.  

I see no parallels here either.  

Wonder whose jobs U.S. took when we become the manufactoring superpower of the world that would cause their economic depression

U.S. is selling debt to China and outsourcing its manufactoring base to China.

What happens if China - called in its loans    :

Naa. History NEVER repeats itself.

 

[wildcat]

MN,

We try not discuss politics and we try to stick to FIRE topics.

 

[Marketneutral]

MN,

We try not discuss politics and we try to stick to FIRE topics.

If you think politics is not a FIRE topic then good luck in trying to plan for it. In my view politics is the #1 factor in being able to FIRE at all.

 

[Marketneutral]

Interesting factoid.

China Stock Market is in the toilet and near their all time low.

Who would of think it? 

 

[wildcat]

H**** Jr.

 

[kat]

Now, if we can just figure out how to work Hitler into the salmon thread...

I skipped the salmon thread. Figured it was about salmon, and the less I know....

Been pretty lucky here, staying out of the politics.

Liberal Democrat, if anyone cares. But two of my best friends are Republicans. It's New York. Sometimes there's no difference....

Grandpa came from Germany.

Have a nice day everybody!

kate

 

[Texas Proud]

When I was working, we used to do our cost estimates and bidding based on estimates of required labor, required material and known overhead rates.  The overhead rates, of course, were multiplication factors applied to labor and materials partially to account for the fact that we had to pay benefits including health care, pensions, 401(k) match, etc.  Over the course of my career, I watched these multipliers creep up from as low as 1.5 to well over 2.0.  Now that companies are whittling down all the benefits, I wonder how much change they've been able to bring to the multipliers.

I have not read the whole thread so I do not know if anybody else has posted, but our factor is only 24%... and this is up from 21% a few years ago.... now that we are cost cutting I bet it will be back to 20% in a year or two.... I have not see people as high as 2X...

 

[justin]

I guess I can just shred by PhD in History. We all ready have Mr Know It All here.

Hey Doc,

If, in fact you really do have a real, honest to goodness PhD in History that you got from a real university, then maybe that explains why you think college was such a huge waste of money. You picked the wrong degree (assuming earning money is important to you).

 

[Marketneutral]

Hey Doc,

If, in fact you really do have a real, honest to goodness PhD in History that you got from a real university, then maybe that explains why you think college was such a huge waste of money.  You picked the wrong degree (assuming earning money is important to you). 

It was from a U.S. point of view. It was worthless. When you only get one countries view of history it is not accurate.

The one side of the story theory.

Now tell me about those folks that got degrees in the IT field that are waiting tables because their jobs are in India? I was in Austin, Texas a couple months ago. My cab driver was a computer programmer that was making $125 per hour in 2000. She is now getting a certificate in massage therapy and driving a cab to pay the bills.

 

[SteveR]

H**** Jr.

Dont' Feed the Trolls

 

[Texas Proud]

This thread has a lot of 'stuff' in it now... and I will address a couple of them...

When talking about debt... there is good debt and bad debt...  so when we say government is bad because of debt we need to be careful..  if we use debt to build infrastructure (the local school, library, highway, sewage treatment plant etc...) this is USUALLY good.. (don't get me started on sports stadiums since we just built three expensive ones down here)...  this is like us using debt to buy a car or a house...

BUT, if the government is using debt to pay operating expenses (the police or firemen wages... welfare, the current war...) this is bad...  there is nothing that has improved future earnings... this is like us using debt to take a vacation...

Now about GM, the topic of this thread....

I do not care if GM goes in the toilet...  they were making a gob of money a few years ago when selling big SUVs and trucks... they could have gotten their fiscal house in order and put money aside for pensions or paid off debt...  they could have been more harder on the unions if they thought that they were paying too much...  but, it was kick the can down the road and let's hope it does not explode on my watch...  now that they are sucking canal water, people are screaming that they need help...  I disagree taking it all out on the employees, but that is the way of business... and I have had it happen to me..  you got a choice to stay or move on..

 

[Marketneutral]

Dont' Feed the Trolls

Don't be a sheeple twice.

 

[Texas Proud]

It was from a U.S. point of view.  It was worthless.  When you only get one countries view of history it is not accurate.

The one side of the story theory. 

Now tell me about those folks that got degrees in the IT field that are waiting tables because their jobs are in India?   I was in Austin, Texas a couple months ago.  My cab driver was a computer programmer that was making $125 per hour in 2000.  She is now getting a certificate in massage therapy and driving a cab to pay the bills. 

And she was NOT WORTH the $125 either.... priced herself out of a job

At $125 per hour... that is about $260,000 per year... with benes... about $325,000 or higher...

 

[Marketneutral]

Funny. There is probably a person in China that will do your job for .35 per hour and no benefits.

 

[justin]

It was from a U.S. point of view. It was worthless. When you only get one countries view of history it is not accurate.

The one side of the story theory.

Now tell me about those folks that got degrees in the IT field that are waiting tables because their jobs are in India? I was in Austin, Texas a couple months ago. My cab driver was a computer programmer that was making $125 per hour in 2000. She is now getting a certificate in massage therapy and driving a cab to pay the bills.

Well, a Computech Executive SuperDuper Deluxe 2 week IT certification "degree" was all that was needed to make $125/hr in 2000 Maybe your cab driver hated computer programming. I've done it plenty enough to know it is too boring for me to do as an occupation. Maybe Austin is in a rut. If you see your cabbie again, tell her to check out other cities in the nation. There are TONS of IT jobs. She won't make $125/hr, probably more like $40,000-$50,000+ if she has a bachelor's degree from a real university and minimal job-related programming skills.

 

[Howard]

I am only repeating what I heard on CNBC, but they stated that US Manafacturing is at an all time high and that the real problem is getting skilled people.

People from China, India etc used to emigrate to the US for jobs, now they can stay home and do the jobs.

Asia does not need the US, once it gets some more wealth more evenly dispersed, it will be difficult to supply its'own markets.

China is developing Siberia, it will bring the raw materials by Train to its' factories, read Jim Rogers, Investor Capitalist.

My Son works with a group of 20 somethings who do Global IT consulting, all work from their apartments and have daily On Line Meetings.

 

[SteveR]

Don't be a sheeple twice.

Next time you might take the time to read a post more fully before you attempt to make a "point."

From my previous post:
"Our duty is to watch the leaders and the media and keep them as honest as we can."

"Vote for who you believe will do what you believe in. Just don't be too disappointed when they sometimes do things that you don't agree with. "

I hardly see this as blindling following leaders.

 

[Marketneutral]

Next time you might take the time to read a post more fully before you attempt to make a "point."

From my previous post:
"Our duty is to watch the leaders and the media and keep them as honest as we can."

"Vote for who you believe will do what you believe in.  Just don't be too disappointed when they sometimes do things that you don't agree with. "

I hardly see this as blindling following leaders.   

As for the Hitler comment; I will refrain from my planned tirad about making such highly emotional and grossly incorrect comparrisons.  Read your history about this era in the world again and talk to someone who actually lived during that time in Germany.  I believe it will become evident that you are mistaken. 

---------------
A leader like Hilter being able to be elected. What could have brought this about?

1. Long-term bitterness

2. Ineffective Constitution

3. Money - The financial support of wealthy businessmen.

4. Propaganda

5. Programme - Hitler promised everybody something.

6. Attacks on other parties

7. Economic Depression - After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the US called in its loans to Germany, and the German economy collapsed.

 

[Nords]

However, lets hope we do not get another Hiltler type leader that invades countries for invalid reasons and slaughters them.

Yes, I agree, it was time for Saddam to go. Kuwait was bad enough, but many people don't realize all the U.S. & allied military who have been killed implementing Operation SOUTHERN WATCH during 1991-2003. From a cold-hearted personnel perspective, considering the thought that we'd be doing it for another decade, this regime change might actually be saving lives. I bet Shiite & Kurd Iraqis would agree with that assessment too.

Justin -- don't jump to conclusions.  My own PhD is from the Maryland State Training School for Boys.   A fine institution if ever there were one.

Are you referring to the U.S. Naval Academy? Or is that St. John's?

 

[Mr._johngalt]

As for the Hitler comment; I will refrain from my planned tirad about making such highly emotional and grossly incorrect comparrisons.  Read your history about this era in the world again and talk to someone who actually lived during that time in Germany.  I believe it will become evident that you are mistaken. 

---------------
A leader like Hilter being able to be elected.   What could have brought this about?

1.       Long-term bitterness

2.       Ineffective Constitution

3.       Money - The financial support of wealthy businessmen.

4.       Propaganda

5.       Programme - Hitler promised everybody something.

6.       Attacks on other parties

7.       Economic Depression - After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the US called in its loans to Germany, and the German economy collapsed.   

Hey, that's pretty accurate.  Good post!

JG

 

[brewer12345]

Yes, I agree, it was time for Saddam to go.  Kuwait was bad enough, but many people don't realize all the U.S. & allied military who have been killed implementing Operation SOUTHERN WATCH during 1991-2003.  From a cold-hearted personnel perspective, considering the thought that we'd be doing it for another decade, this regime change might actually be saving lives.  I bet Shiite & Kurd Iraqis would agree with that assessment too.

I bet the 100k+ dead Iraqi civilians would NOT have agreed...

 

[Marketneutral]

Yes, I agree, it was time for Saddam to go.  Kuwait was bad enough,

What would happen if Mexico was pumping the oil out from under Texas by slant drilling? Stop think about it.....what would we do?

---------------
The whole dispute started because Kuwait was slant-drilling. Using equipment bought from National Security Council chief Brent Scowcroft's old company, Kuwait was pumping out some $14-billion worth of oil from underneath Iraqi territory.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA Hits/Iraq_CIAHits.html

http://www.rense.com/general3/slant.htm