Hybrid car mileage patterns

[Chuckanut]

I took this quote from another thread:

A hybrid would suffice but for us, there is little city driving so less advantage over gas powered vehicle.

I realize the above is the standard narrative based upon what we have been told about how hybrid automobiles work. But, it is not quite my experience.

I have owned two hybrids. Both, get their best mileage driven on highways and freeways with few stops, and at speeds about 60-65 mpg. Well over 42-46 mpg. When I drive around town (but not bumper to bumper stop-and-go) mileage drops to about 37-40. Bumper to bumper stop-n-go brings it back up to the low to mid 40's as the car is operating almost entirely on the battery for a few miles.

Cold weather (below 60) takes a toll on the mileage of about 10-15%. Warm weather gets it all back and maybe 5% more.

FWIW, I manged to achieve 50+ mpg in my current hybrid driving a curvy country road at about 45-50 mph with almost no stopping. It was a nice 70 degree day.

Perhaps other experienced hybrid drivers could add their 2¢ based upon their experience.

 

[nap470]

I drive an SUV hybrid which lists a combined mileage of 27 mpg. Driving around in my suburb area in the warm weather months, I get pretty darn close to that average. It's a heavy vehicle, so it rarely runs on EV only for very long. I get near 30 mpg on road trips in warm months without too many hills. Winter time, mpg is around 22-23.

For me, I think the best choice would be a plugin hybrid that can run in EV mode for 30-45 mile range. That would cover 95% of my daily driving, but allow me to visit family 6 hours away without having to worry about delays recharging on the route.

 

[Gumby]

Perhaps other experienced hybrid drivers could add their 2¢ based upon their experience.

I had a Honda Civic Hybrid from 2007 to 2019 and drove it a total of 303k miles before I gave it away. Most of that was the twice daily 50 mile (one way) highway commute between home and work. In my experience, it got better mileage on the highway than in town local driving with stops. One reason was that the Honda used the highly efficient 1.3L gasoline engine as the prime motive power and the electric motor only for boost. By contrast, a Prius used the electric motor for prime motive power and the less efficient gasoline engine for boost, so at low speeds with no hard acceleration, it was mostly running solely on the electric motor.

 

[Koolau]

I took this quote from another thread:



I realize the above is the standard narrative based upon what we have been told about how hybrid automobiles work. But, it is not quite my experience.

I have owned two hybrids. Both, get their best mileage driven on highways and freeways with few stops, and at speeds about 60-65 mpg. Well over 42-46 mpg. When I drive around town (but not bumper to bumper stop-and-go) mileage drops to about 37-40. Bumper to bumper stop-n-go brings it back up to the low to mid 40's as the car is operating almost entirely on the battery for a few miles.

Cold weather (below 60) takes a toll on the mileage of about 10-15%. Warm weather gets it all back and maybe 5% more.

FWIW, I manged to achieve 50+ mpg in my current hybrid driving a curvy country road at about 45-50 mph with almost no stopping. It was a nice 70 degree day.

Perhaps other experienced hybrid drivers could add their 2¢ based upon their experience.

Upstairs neighbor had (IIRC) a '15 Prius. He had moved from Baston (er, I mean, Boston) area. He still drove like that in Honolulu. He claimed 45 to 48 which is just below the 50 for combined IIRC. He was that driver that doesn't believe he is driving if he isn't pushing a pedal (either gas or brake.) Only one data point and of course, very little (true) freeway driving. Yeah, we got freeways - but sometimes they are just another form of parking lot. In any case, I'd call them "city" driving unless you are on the H3 outside of town. He did do a route around the Island, picking up money from photo machines once a week. That was maybe 100 miles, so he put some serious miles on the vehicle as he was always on the go. YMMV

 

[REWahoo]

I have a 2021 Toyota Highlander hybrid and my experience (limited to the 90 days I've owned it) is the mileage in town is better than highway miles. The EPA says it should get 36 in the city and 35 on the highway. I'm getting 39-40 in town and 34-35 on the highway. However, on the hilly section of interstate yesterday with a speed limit of 80 I was only getting 31-32. YMMV .

 

[Koolau]

I always kinda wanted a Prius (or similar) to experiment with it to see what kind of mileage could be wrung out of it. I had a '91 Mazda 626/5spd. I experimented with hypermiling it in town and got over 45 mpg. Lots of pulse and glide out of gear. Not too safe, but I always did it in safe places at safe times. A 5 speed gives a lot of flexibility - especially if you are willing to lag up to stops and then restart w/momentum. IIRC, EPA was 21/29/24. I'm pretty sure there are some real tricky ways to add mpg to Prius (et. Al) hybrids. And, as my upstairs neighbor proved, it's hard to get "bad" mileage with one. YMMV

 

[Mark1]

We just got back from a trip to Mammoth Lakes, CA from Grand Junction last week. Most of the trip across UT and NV was at 70 mph to 80 mph and we still averaged ~ 42 mpg in the Avalon hybrid. In town, we only get slightly better maybe 44-46 mpg. Also, because of the long hill descents some of the regenerative braking was clearly being lost once the batteries were full (many times the tachometer was showing 4-5,000 rpm by the time we got to the bottom of the hills). There goes my battery life.

 

[PaunchyPirate]

I have a 2021 Toyota Highlander hybrid and my experience (limited to the 90 days I've owned it) is the mileage in town is better than highway miles. The EPA says it should get 36 in the city and 35 on the highway. I'm getting 39-40 in town and 34-35 on the highway. However, on the hilly section of interstate yesterday with a speed limit of 80 I was only getting 31-32. YMMV .

This is largely my experience with my 2021 Hylander hybrid as well. Mine drops to 25-28 MPG in the winter months as I have to run the heater a lot here where I live. There are a lot of fluctuations with various terrains, temperatures, and level of stop/go during the trips.

 

[zinger1457]

I have an Avalon hybrid and get pretty close to the spec (43mpg) around town, live in a rural area so not a lot of stop and go traffic. For the longer trips I've taken I usually average ~40mpg, most of the highways out have a 75mph speed limit so set my cruise control to 80, never had any interest in trying to maximize mpg's on highways.

 

[Koolau]

I have a 2021 Toyota Highlander hybrid and my experience (limited to the 90 days I've owned it) is the mileage in town is better than highway miles. The EPA says it should get 36 in the city and 35 on the highway. I'm getting 39-40 in town and 34-35 on the highway. However, on the hilly section of interstate yesterday with a speed limit of 80 I was only getting 31-32. YMMV .

Heh, heh, my 22 yo Buick does the 31mpg or more at 75 - even with AC, better with out AC and not using CC. NOT accelerating up and regaining momentum down adds several MPG though it probably costs a few mph overall. Kinda fun in light Interstate traffic - DW hates it when she catches me doing it! The OBD mileage indicator teaches you quickly what works and what doesn't. Still haven't figured how to get more than 20 in town. Feathering the throttle seems worse than getting up the gears quickly and then gliding - even with a stop ahead. It's NOT a true Hypermiler's car but has lots of potential because it starts out being a big, heavy stone of a car. I give a lot of credit to the GM 3.8l V6. It shouldn't work, but it does. It just literally "loafs" along at highway speeds and yet is surprisingly peppy when that's needed.

If I had another life to live (on Earth) I'd like to be a "mileage engineer" - figuring how to extract more energy from ICE. They are SO inefficient that there must be lots of tricks available to get more energy from them to the wheels. It's amazing that huge diesels (like locomotives and sea-going diesels) get as much as 50% efficiency. That is amazing. Of course, it helps that their power settings are pretty much "cruise" or idle. Optimizing for that has to help a lot. I'm sure that's a good part of why a Prius works - it's optimized ICE runs mostly at efficient speeds and its electric motor takes up the slack in acceleration. What a fun c@reer that could be - especially in a true research setting (University - rather than, say, a GM or Ford.) YMMV

 

[Alan]

We are now on our 2nd Prius, bought the first one in 2007 and the 2nd in 2017.

For sure we get better mileage on long journeys than on short journeys around town. However, we have twice spent extended vacations (months) in mountains and by far the best mileage was during those periods.

 

[Koolau]

I have an Avalon hybrid and get pretty close to the spec (43mpg) around town, live in a rural area so not a lot of stop and go traffic. For the longer trips I've taken I usually average ~40mpg, most of the highways out have a 75mph speed limit so set my cruise control to 80, never had any interest in trying to maximize mpg's on highways.

That's how I amuse myself on long trips - tweaking the mileage. I rarely get sleepy when I'm semi-hypermiling. I don't take it to extreme for safety (and time) constraints. In moderate traffic, it's safe and is absorbing/interesting enough to stay focused on the driving. YMMV

 

[travelover]

.......If I had another life to live (on Earth) I'd like to be a "mileage engineer" - figuring how to extract more energy from ICE. They are SO inefficient that there must be lots of tricks available to get more energy from them to the wheels........

Right, I doubt there has been very much work put into this topic over the last 50 years.

 

[Koolau]

Right, I doubt there has been very much work put into this topic over the last 50 years.

Yeah, I understand your point. But keep in mind that when we needed better mileage in years past - we figured out how to get it.

Indeed, lots has been done to tweak the ICE. BUT, realistically, I believe there must be either a couple of major breakthroughs to be had or, more likely, several small breakthroughs that will add up. Most of them (IMHO) designed around utilizing waste heat from ICE.

If fuel stays at current costs, many improvements are probably already waiting to be instituted but are too costly at $2 gas.

And, no, the ICE can't possibly overtake the efficiency of the EV. BUT the ICE has some real advantages that I do not believe will be easily overtaken by EVs. Classic example: ease/time of fueling - and adequacy of fueling stations with respect to expected volumes of vehicles. Heh, heh, and arguably just producing enough electricity to fuel all the planned EVs (not to mention distributing the electricity) will, IMHO mean the ICE will be with us a while - may be quite a while longer.

NOT interfering with development/production of FFs is much easier than coming up with more electricity and distributing it (stroke of a pen for the former - unknown for the latter.) We already know how to get as much FFs as we need for years to come. I really don't think we have a good handle on how we will come up with a stable supply of electricity sufficient for all the EVs everyone says are coming by 2025 or 2030. Not going for controversy but I hold these "truths" to be self evident - at least today. YMMV

 

[Bamaman]

We put 69K miles on a Camry Hybrid with the newest generation of hybrid drive--and lithium battery. Note: Nickel battery powered hybrids don't get as good of mileage. We averaged 49.5 mpg in the city and on the open highway.

Traded it last year for a 2022 Venza AWD Hybrid--with a lithium battery. It's getting 42.5 mpg all the time. We went on a 65 mile short trip today (on the interstate) running as fast as 85 mpg without issue. We can tell a big difference having AWD--especially on wet highways. And it's a much higher quality vehicle than the Camry despite just a small price differential ($32K new.)

I have been told by a Toyota dealer that their service departments don't like them to sell hybrids. Except for oil changes, no service work is ever done. Toyota engineers are absolute genius', and their hybrids are simply bulletproof. And at my age, I'm into durability and trouble free vehicles.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I have a 2022 Ford Maverick pickup (truck), hybrid variant w/about 3K miles so far.

The EPA numbers for it are 42 city/37 mixed/ 33 highway. My mileage to date is about 40-41 (too lazy to go out and check). In my 5 or so fill ups, the best mileage was my trip after getting the vehicle - did a few hundred miles of non-interstate roads (speeds from 30-55). The worst has been a long trip to PA (about 900+ miles round trip) which was mostly interstate, some at 75+. (That trip was about 37 MPG overall.)

So my experience has been that the mileage is definitely worse on high speed highway (which makes sense because it can't run just in electric mode). I don't have much "city-only" kinds of driving (where I live is fairly rural w/rolling hills, which I think brings out the best mileage on it (many of my trips about the area yield high 40's or low 50's.)

The Ford uses a very similar setup to Toyota (they have shared technology), including the eCVT methodology (which seems pretty nice).

ETA: I went to look at the current stats. Of the 3220.9 miles I've put on it, mileage (as measured by trip computer) is 40.9, and of the 3220.9 miles 871.6 were electric miles. Total run time has been 77 hours 30 minutes. Fuelly tells me my best MPG was 45.4, overall 39.6 MPG, last four (the long trip plus a bunch more interstate travel) 38.9, 38.0, 37.6, 35.7 - so you can see how Interstates impact the efficiency...but still a lot better than taking my F150.

 

[youbet]

We've had our 2018 Prius for about 1.8 yrs. Purchased it as a so-called "certified" car from the local Toyota dealer. We've put about 6k miles on it so far. It's our in-town car and sees mostly suburban short trips. It spends much of the winter in our garage while we're someplace warm in the camper pulled by an F-150.

We've only had it on the highway twice, each time for about 400 miles. Our suburban driving gets us low 50's and the highway trips were upper 40's. We were really curious about highway mileage so filled up before we left and again when we arrived and calculated the mileage from that.

It's been a great car for suburban driving conditions.

 

[Koolau]

Curious how "carefully" folks determine fuel mileage. I've mentioned that my OBD runs high (8% on the Buick and 4% on the Toyota - completely consistent). But I know that only because I spend the extra time to carefully fill the tank to the brim each time. Thats actually not recommended because of environmental issues (potential spills) and possible damage to the carbon canister.) But only by doing that do you get an accurate "real" mileage. YMMV

 

[travelover]

Curious how "carefully" folks determine fuel mileage.......... YMMV

I think it is best to figure it both ways and report the one that gives the highest number, because YMMV.

 

[Koolau]

I think it is best to figure it both ways and report the one that gives the highest number, because YMMV.

Not sure I understand what you are saying. What "both" ways? If you are talking about OBD, I use that only as a relative measure while I'm driving - does this behavior lead to better or worse mileage right now? My only mileage that counts is when I top off the tank and divide miles by gallons. Good news is that the OBD IS precise but inaccurate. YMMV

 

[Chuckanut]

Curious how "carefully" folks determine fuel mileage. I've mentioned that my OBD runs high (8% on the Buick and 4% on the Toyota - completely consistent). But I know that only because I spend the extra time to carefully fill the tank to the brim each time. Thats actually not recommended because of environmental issues (potential spills) and possible damage to the carbon canister.) But only by doing that do you get an accurate "real" mileage. YMMV

I kept records of my car's gas consumption for about 1000 miles of varied driving. I tend to fill up at 1/2 tank so that is four fillups for me. My numbers show, the car's dash display is about 5% optimistic.

OR.... the pumps are ripping me off by telling me I bought 8.4 gallons when I only pumped 8.0 gallons.

 

[Koolau]

I kept records of my car's gas consumption for about 1000 miles of varied driving. I tend to fill up at 1/2 tank so that is four fillups for me. My numbers show, the car's dash display is about 5% optimistic.

OR.... the pumps are ripping me off by telling me I bought 8.4 gallons when I only pumped 8.0 gallons.

Knew a guy whose J*b was to check the accuracy of fuel pumps. His little "approval" stickers used to be all over town (sort of like the "I Did That" sticker that has magically appeared on virtually every gas pump now.) He had to check hundreds (perhaps a couple thousand) of pumps every year and certify them within certain limits. He had specialized equipment that he brought to gas stations - pumping certain amounts and determining the amount delivered. Obviously, if the pumps weren't within spec, he would red tag the pump. Not my idea of a fun J*b but somebody's got to do it.

Regarding the fuel mileage display, I've never heard of one showing LESS than the actual mileage - could there be something going on here?? YMMV

 

[Happyras]

Our BMW X330e has been great, but I wish it had more than a 12KW-hr battery. I would really like to buy a Rav4 Prime with the 45 mile range on electric, but the green state of Washington taxes electric vehicles so Toyota does not allocate yet, and Oregon dealers are tight on inventory.

As for economy, we generally run on all electric, but if we go out twice in a day, we have to use gas. On a very long hwy trip, we average 32mpg, but typically mixed driving is in the rated 68mpge range. Again, ideally, a hybrid with a 45 mile range would fill 90% of all our driving.

We bought a pig, er I mean, Jaguar I-pace in 2019 and while it had a 200 mile range, it mostly was driven back and forth to the dealer until Lemon'd.....

 

[travelover]

Not sure I understand what you are saying. .........

I was making a little joke about how people tend to latch onto what looks best. Like people that reference their fuel economy when going downhill.

 

[Koolau]

I was making a little joke about how people tend to latch onto what looks best. Like people that reference their fuel economy when going downhill.

So sorry! Guess I was taking this subject all too seriously.